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Help regarding Parents and Ritualism


Thanatos
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14 hours ago, singhbj singh said:

If my parents ordered me to cut my Kesh, I won't !

Now let me ask a question,

Who deserves to stay in family home one whose obedient or who disobey's ?

 

If parent's want to kick their child out for following Gurmat.  Then, they should and reap the benefits from their nastik actions.  Parents out of worldly attachments, anger, and ego are forcing a string around a child's hand.  Such behavior is embodying characteristic's of Harnakash.  Gurmat teaches children to stay at home as Bhagat Prahlad ji taught us.  Bhagat Prahlad ji didn't leave his house.  Instead he kept on meditating on Vaheguru regardless of the threats made by his ruling king father Harnakash.  When Harnakash tried to strike down the innocent Bhagat ji, Vaheguru came to his rescue and destroyed the arrogant father.  

Threatening kids on this site to leave home because they don't want to follow anti-gurmat practices is immature.  Do you have any shame at your age?  Your failed scare tactics, tell me you are around 50 years old. 

On 8/20/2016 at 0:19 AM, singhbj singh said:

Coming to the Shabad if you believe that Akal Purakh is your father then what is keeping you from leaving birth parents ?

P.S - I am not supporting or promoting Rakhri, Janeu or misinterpreting Gurmat just  being pragmatic and presenting a different point of view from majority.

Will request all Sikhs to stop being hypocrites, first become financially independent, move out and then do your own thing.

 

Since you don't agree with the Gurmat interpretation of the Shabad; shabad is referring to Akal Purakh as father.  This means you are saying your father is Akal Purakh.  Congratulations!!!  Krishna has been born again from Vasudeva, 25th avatar.  Ring the bell, call in the pandit, blow the horn.  This is where we can tell, how much thought and care is put into your post.     Threatening kids, isolating Gurbani (manipulation), screaming through post is not presenting a different point of view.  It's being a stubborn, arrogant, reckless parent. 

Financially, independent.....mega LOL.......when people are full of themselves, they believe rest of the world is beneath them.  Find yourself a Gurmukh and learn from them, how to interpret Gurbani.   

 

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10 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

Next year the thread title will be “Does wearing a rakhri mean I support RSS?”

A lot of apne need to take a few Benadryls because they’ve got a serious Hindu allergy.

Rakhri is NOT a religious ceremony anyway.

Why people can’t understand that symbolic practises are not anti-Gurmat is beyond me.

One must understand that symbolic practises and rituals are criticized in Gurbani as people had started to believe that the rituals alone had spiritual benefit. If we follow Gurbani then we wil not fall into this trap.

But by using the logic that xyz is anti-Gurmat and an empty ritual then many things in Sikhi would need a serious overhaul. Other aspects of our lives would also need rethinking.

When we get into this frame of mind you can ask whole load of ridiculous questions. You can see how quickly it becomes pagal puna to ask such bakwaas:

Many people wear a thin Kara so the Kara has become symbolic. Should we stop wearing them?

Why matha tek? It’s only symbolic.

Why do palle da rassam before Anand Karaj? It’s only symbolic. Hell why even do phere around Mahraaj during Anand Kaaraj.

Why do we have white chadaraan at the Gurdwara? It’s just a symbolic way of Mahraaj calling us the Sadh Sangat so we don't really need them.

Why have jyot at the Gurdwara? And you can’t say because ghyio purifies the air because jyot these days is always in a small cabinet tucked away in a little corner. It’s just symbolic.

Tbh why do we even have Akhand Path maryada? Much of it is symbolic.

What’s the point of the Khanda? It’s just a symbol isn’t it? Similarly why does Nihang Fauj wear Aad Chand? Just another symbol isn’t it?

Why have Amrit Sanchar? It’s just symbolic.

Why did Guru Sahiban do the rituals and symbolic practises when passing on the Gurgaddi? It was just an empty ritual and symbolic!! Will people now go and question Mahraaj?!

Why did Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahraaj wear a Kalgi? It’s only symbolic of being a King. Will we now question Mahraaj?!

The above are just a few obvious questions that can be asked but if we keep going, as I once read, we will firmly end up in Kala Afghanas camp. The missionaries are attacking Sikh left, right and centre by posing similar questions but about the fundamental concepts of Sikhi.

Please stop this Talibanisation of Sikhi Sangat Ji.

Hi Mr. Doaba,

I have been waiting for this post of yours.  Thank you for taking the time to write it.  Another poster trying to scare kids into following anti-gurmat practices.  I'm number off your points and give a response below.

1 The Kara is given by the Guru to the Sikh.  The Rakhri was not given to the Sikh by the Guru.  A person misusing a kara doesn't make the kara symbolic or outdated. 

2. bowing down is instructions given to a Sikh through Gurbani.  Do you even read Gurbani?

3.  Again Guru Sahib given teaching.  Phere are also Guru Sahib given teaching.  Tell me which one of your man made Gurus gave you the rakhri?

4. Yeah, do you have a stronger string.

5. Jyot is a a teaching given by Guru Sahib.  I think you need to make a chart.  On one side type in the heading, Guru given teaching and other man made oppressive teaching.  Then present the chart here and we can help you out.  Rest of the points will be given the same answers above.  No point on going further.  Please read Gurbani and learn what it means, when I say guru sahib given teaching.  You can't miss it, it's right before Jap.

Only people doubting Guru Sahib is your camp that wants kids to be kicked out of their parents house and equating rakhri to Gurmat practices.  Talibanization happens when the taliban or like minded people force their views and practices on others.  Up till now that has been your camps goal.  Let's see if you guys decide to switch your tactics and become truthful in your approach.  

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On the contrary kids should thank me for eye opening posts.

What money minded pracharaks don't explain is that one can either be a Bhagat or Sansari,

http://igurbani.com/?shabadid=416&id=5978

I know Thanatos is young therefore he must choose his path and not be a hypocrite.

Nobody is stopping you guys from freeloading & disobeying parents.

But don't pretend that you are true believers coz you are not !

 

 

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10 hours ago, harsharan000 said:

Congrats Mr Doaba Jee,

according to your beautful post above, with which I agree 100%, plus I could say, that at last, there is someone with common sense and truthful to Gurmat.

Once again, hats off Brother!!!

What I have seen here is, times are changing, so is the mentality of the newer generations, though more or less they are on Gurmat, but are somehow rebels, stubborn...

I really can not understand, how most of us come daily and spend sometime here apparently amicably, and still, at the least chance we spit fire, without giving a second chance, that their words, may hurt or be painful to others ....

I can not understand, how can people change their behaviour just like that ....from east to west, really disturbing and not understandable.

Referring to Brother Singhbj Singh, from his posts since he is member here, I can say he is a coolest and most peaceful person which can be found here...

I really feel sorry for him, being abused so mercilessly .... Let us ask ourselves, has he sudeenly forgotten all his manners or virtues displyed in his posts till now?

After all what was his crime, if any? 

I only saw goodness, and he has been offended for it.

Shame on all of them.

Sometimes this place is worse than a mad house. All attacking at a time to someone or the other.  That too, what for?

It is very unpleasant to see, how some can change their behaviour to the extremes, almost as fanatics... getting trapped in krodh, and spreading uneasiness/ashanti.

Let us widen the horizons of our minds, and stop blaming and accusing others for our own pettiness

Why can not we intercat with each other with respect and decency without loosing our mental balance? 

It is like a castle of cards, one card looses its balance, all others follow blindly and fall on the ground....

Remember, no matter how much we may say, we are sikhs, we are this or that, if we have no mercy or kindness in  our hearts towards others, we shall never be able to walk on the beautiful and unique path of Sikee.

God is love, and unless we learn to love and plant the virtues of mercy, of forgiveness and tolerance, we can never be able do His chintan/His Dhyan.

Only those pure of hearts and minds, (it is a state of avastha of purity, of goodness), can tread the path of Gurmat.

Jin prem kiyo, tinhee Prabh paayo.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

 

 

 

Playing the victim again!!  Back in April 2016 you had a mental break down and left the forum, even making a public announcement of it.  You stated people on here (it was directed at me) were mean and wouldn't play nice (which meant, why are my views being challenged...big sad face).  Today, you are back to your old habits of promoting anti-gurmat practices.  You like practicing and promoting anti-gurmat ideologies and I like dipping into the one ocean of Gurbani.  You have every right to express your opinion.  And I have every right to counter it with Gurmat.  You getting upset doesn't bother me for a second.  These above post of attack, only hurt you.  You kept on writing similar post as above and guess what!!  You had a mental break down.  Going down the same road will only bring more stress for you.  When you spread manmat, it gives me an opportunity to freshen up on what the Guru taught and present it here.  I hope you are prepared for this round.  

 

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Kira Paji, Thanatos has asked for this topic to be locked. Can it be locked now please, as it's turning into a wrestling match now, and we need to keep cool and keep away from the Krodh side even if we all have different opinions. 

End of day, nobody can force anybody to do or not do anything. 

Only Waheguru will grace one what to do when it's their time to. 

Lets not let one day get in the way of the unity we have on here. 

Waheguru ??

Bhul chuk maf Karo Je Kuch galat keha hove. And let's keep our personal opinions of others to ourselves Ji. 

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10 hours ago, Thanatos said:

 

Bro I've posted a link from a Mahapurkh telling us what true Rakhi is and where it comes from for Sikhs, he told us what WE SHOULD BE FOLLOWING. To back my point up I even posted audio proof from a Mahapurkh who's Avasta is far above yours or mine, 

 

You are right 2 methods may result in 2 variations, however one of those variations can easily be wrong. There's a shabad in Gurbani where Bhagat Kabir Ji spoke against keep kesh supposedly, however the actual arth is talking against hypocrisy. interpretations come from gyan and avasta along side actual coherent knowledge of Sikhism. You've not presented a single line from any Gurbani where these things are considered fine. By your use of logic some Muslims/Hindus/confused sikhs who insist  Dasam Pita's bani are asking us to worship Devi Devta is considered just as right as those who consider the bani to be speaking the exact opposite. Or how about those Hindus who insist that Gurbani is praising Vishnu rather the the primordial lord. Are they just as right as us? Guru Gobind Singh Ji did Santhiya of Gurbani, teaching the true meaning of it. That alone should point out the core of Gurbani is always going to be the same. I don't mean to sound like an <banned word filter activated> but if you need a thread to remind you of family then your bond isn't as strong as you perceive it. 

There's a difference between "Talibanisation" and making coherent points. If you can provide logical proof that Guru Sahib followed this ancient hindu tradition (since its thousands of years old) then present it, we're all ears. No one's stopping you posting proof, but rather than using only your own mind, use Gurbani too. Only difference is Gurbani is 100% correct and we are not. 

Rakhshah Bandan= mentioned in Puranas , The same scriptures Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us Not  to follow, if you want proof of that feel free to read the final portion of Chaupai Sahib. Sorry but no way can someone call themselves a Sikh (not saying anything about you this is a totally seperate statement) and openly defy their father.

 

Maharaj never took part in anything that involved ritualism, this is ritualism. My argument isn't illogical for 1 simple reason. Rakshah Bandan was around then too yet they never took part in it. 

Veera I’m afraid I have to say agree to disagree. You are taking our discussion in the wrong direction. Our views are very different. I see that you have posted “audio proof”. At the risk of being hated upon I have to say while I respect all Mahapurkh I unfortunately do not take all their speech as Christian 10 Commandments. Such thinking has confined Sikhi to a box so small that we can no longer think and contemplate ourselves. And also Veera it takes a Brahmgyani to know a Brahmgyani so do not say things such as “proof”. Only Guru Mahraaj are infallible.  Also note Sant Ishar Singh Ji were from the Nanaksar Jatha and this Jatha promotes using Guru Nanak Dev Jis image as a point of focus when meditating, many would consider this as anti-Gurmat. Will you take this into consideration?

Thanatos Ji I have not presented any Gurbani as such is pointless unless one has undergone intense Santhiya and understands the arth of Bani. Translations do no justice. I can easily copy and paste Shabads to make random points seem legitimate.

You bring up Dasam Bani but such Pavitar Bani can only be understood after undertaking intense Gyan Vidya. Many people mistake Dasam Bani, worshiping and respecting are two different things.

Veera I don’t need that thread to remind me of how strong my family bond is but rather that thread has reminded me as I’ve grown up of how pyaari my cousin sister is to me, remember she is long distance.

Forgive my ignorance but as far as I’m aware Raksha Bandan is not mentoned in any Dharmic Granths. I think you are mistaking the tying of a Rakhri for a “Mauli” thread.

Whether or not Mahraaj took part in such rituals, only Vaheguru knows. Again this is illogical.

My whole point is one can bring up many ridiculous questions which make many, many things seem anti-Gurmat with the logic you are using.

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4 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Hi Mr. Doaba,

I have been waiting for this post of yours.  Thank you for taking the time to write it.  Another poster trying to scare kids into following anti-gurmat practices.  I'm number off your points and give a response below.

1 The Kara is given by the Guru to the Sikh.  The Rakhri was not given to the Sikh by the Guru.  A person misusing a kara doesn't make the kara symbolic or outdated. 

2. bowing down is instructions given to a Sikh through Gurbani.  Do you even read Gurbani?

3.  Again Guru Sahib given teaching.  Phere are also Guru Sahib given teaching.  Tell me which one of your man made Gurus gave you the rakhri?

4. Yeah, do you have a stronger string.

5. Jyot is a a teaching given by Guru Sahib.  I think you need to make a chart.  On one side type in the heading, Guru given teaching and other man made oppressive teaching.  Then present the chart here and we can help you out.  Rest of the points will be given the same answers above.  No point on going further.  Please read Gurbani and learn what it means, when I say guru sahib given teaching.  You can't miss it, it's right before Jap.

Only people doubting Guru Sahib is your camp that wants kids to be kicked out of their parents house and equating rakhri to Gurmat practices.  Talibanization happens when the taliban or like minded people force their views and practices on others.  Up till now that has been your camps goal.  Let's see if you guys decide to switch your tactics and become truthful in your approach.  

Veera why make a post in such gussa?

If you look at Puratan sources the Kara is not actually mentioned nor are 5 Kakaar as we know them today. Although having said this, it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t wear a Kara.

You are making Gurbani to be 10 Commandments or Sharia Law with comments such as “bowing down is instruction given to the Sikh through Gurbani”. Bowing or doing Matha tek is entirely symbolic. Please use logic. Again I must say that we should all do Matha Tek to Guru Mahraaj and also if one wishes to, to Sant/Mahapurkh/Gurdev/Ustaad/Elders.

Please show me where phere are teaching from Guru Sahib. In fact some Gursikhs think that in Puratan days, phere were not done. Again, I am not against phere.

Please show me where Guru Mahraaj says Jyot as we do today is a teaching. Once again, I am not against Jyot.

I am not forcing my view on anyone.  I am simply trying to show that people should not be such narrow minded Kattarpanthi-Shariapanthi-Singh Shabaiya idiots.

Let’s use your broken logic...you said “Hi Mr. Doaba”; Veera this is anti-Gurmat as Mahraaj has stated to say Fateh to your fellow Sikh not Hi.

Aah dekhya tuahdi tooti footi soch da...bara Kaljug da Gyani.

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Let me clear your rubbish as usual :

4 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

 

Playing the victim again!! 

This is your mental imperfection and perception

 

Back in April 2016 you had a mental break down and left the forum, even making a public announcement of it.  

You are most wicked and liar person I have seen. And your above statement confirms it.

What mental breakdown are you refering? One who has placed at His sharan, has no place for any mental breakdown, and lesser from ignorants like you

 

You stated people on here (it was directed at me) were mean and wouldn't play nice (which meant, why are my views being challenged...big sad face). 

Once again you are lying, these words are yours not mine. Whether you believe it not, they were never directed to you, but maybe you felt so, because you have a sense of guilty, as ever

 

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Today, you are back to your old habits of promoting anti-gurmat practices. 

Not yesterday, not today and never ever, I promote antigurmat pratices, it is all your wickedness and huge ahankar, which makes you see things in that way, thus you are the root cause of anti-gurmat only

 

You like practicing and promoting anti-gurmat ideologies and I like dipping into the one ocean of Gurbani.  

Lying once again.

Better said, I bring Gurbani as it is, while your perception of Gurbani is totaly wrong, as you are drown in the "nashaa" of your polluted ahankar, of knowing Gurmat, when the fact is you are evil, cause you are the personification of anti gurmat

 

You have every right to express your opinion.  And I have every right to counter it with Gurmat.  

You liar, all your counters are based on anti Gurmat vikaars, Stop using the sacred words of Gurbani/Gurmat, for your personal ahankaree interests

 

You getting upset doesn't bother me for a second.  

I do not expect the contrary from you

 

These above post of attack, only hurt you.  

That is not true, it is disliked by all those who abide by the virtues of Gurmat

 

You kept on writing similar post as above and guess what!!  You had a mental break down.  

You wicked, me mental breakdown?  You are out of your senses....

 

Going down the same road will only bring more stress for you.  

No stress, it is your stupidty which makes you think so. You are consciousless, you do not differentiate right from  wrong...

 

When you spread manmat, it gives me an opportunity to freshen up on what the Guru taught and present it here.  

Lying again, I do not spread manmat, I spread Gurmat; and you as an evil being, you use every chance to spread your ahankaar, thus anti-Gurmat

 

I hope you are prepared for this round.

Your evilness makes you see things as a fight, so you use the word round.

This only confirms your agyanta, and the filth of ahankaar, your mind is filled with.

You have less brains than a fly, why the hell would I even bother to considere your lies and nonsense...

Again, it is your ahankaar which makes you fall down, every time you behave wickedly.

To top it up, let me refresh the sangat here with  a simple anti Gurmat agyanta of yours, with the following line of yours also in another thread:

"so long as the shabad Guru is the teacher of the body it is the real mandir."  

This is pure anti Gurmat from your side, cause, when the Shabd Guru is the teacher of the body?  Which is perishable and unconsciouss, jarr

It is all your dangerous anti Gurmat such  twistings which can mislead and be harmful to the Sangat here or anywhere you go with your rubbish.

So Sangat Jee, beware of this ahankaree nakali faujee liar here

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

Veera I’m afraid I have to say agree to disagree. You are taking our discussion in the wrong direction. Our views are very different. I see that you have posted “audio proof”. At the risk of being hated upon I have to say while I respect all Mahapurkh I unfortunately do not take all their speech as Christian 10 Commandments. Such thinking has confined Sikhi to a box so small that we can no longer think and contemplate ourselves. And also Veera it takes a Brahmgyani to know a Brahmgyani so do not say things such as “proof”. Only Guru Mahraaj are infallible.  Also note Sant Ishar Singh Ji were from the Nanaksar Jatha and this Jatha promotes using Guru Nanak Dev Jis image as a point of focus when meditating, many would consider this as anti-Gurmat. Will you take this into consideration?

 

Bro the Nanaksar Jatha follows alot of anti-gurmat things that Sant Ji DIDN'T prescribe for them. They're following their on manmat and anyone who reads Sant Ji's life stories/biographies will back this up.

I posted proof from a Brahmgyani where he teaches us not to fall into such manmat. I'd recommend reading Sukhmani Sahib,for a start you're misquoting and twisting gurbani intentional or not I can't say). Only Brahmgyani knows the state of another Brahmgyani, Sant Ji instructs people to take refugee in true Rakhi which is Gurbani, purposely you're defying Guru Sahib as well by insulting Sant Ji by saying you don't thing they are infallible. Read Sukhmani Sahib where the Astpadhi's address Brahgyani and Saadh are described. Mate, you're purposely ignoring Guru Sahib's gurbani, that's not very good behaviour for a sikh.

The actual Gurbani regarding a Brahmgyani is such.

 

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਜਾਨੈ ॥ ब्रहम गिआनी की गति ब्रहम गिआनी जानै ॥ Barahm gi▫ānī kī gaṯ barahm gi▫ānī jānai. Only the God-conscious being can know the state of the God-conscious being.

 

A Mahapurkh such as Sant Isher Singh Ji is infallible since his Soul became one with Akaal. The way you're taking it we should simply stop listening to them for advice and guidance.

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Thanatos Ji I have not presented any Gurbani as such is pointless unless one has undergone intense Santhiya and understands the arth of Bani. Translations do no justice. I can easily copy and paste Shabads to make random points seem legitimate.

So rely on the words of those who have gone through this intense Santhiya, Can you show me Mahaprukh saying its fine a Sikh should do it?

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You bring up Dasam Bani but such Pavitar Bani can only be understood after undertaking intense Gyan Vidya. Many people mistake Dasam Bani, worshiping and respecting are two different things.

Bro you just said 2 interpretations arise, I made a point about it all interpretations must arise in Gurbani, an interpration is wrong if it isn't routed in key gurmat principle. 

 

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Veera I don’t need that thread to remind me of how strong my family bond is but rather that thread has reminded me as I’ve grown up of how pyaari my cousin sister is to me, remember she is long distance.

Phones exist man, use them.

 

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Forgive my ignorance but as far as I’m aware Raksha Bandan is not mentoned in any Dharmic Granths. I think you are mistaking the tying of a Rakhri for a “Mauli” thread.

I'm not, Guru Sahib spoke against all thread tying.

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Whether or not Mahraaj took part in such rituals, only Vaheguru knows. Again this is illogical.

Bro, Maharaaj's History was carefully documented, Mahapurkhs have said we shouldn't take part in it. Why are you so obsessed with following your own wishes and defending the institute. 

 

Rakhri comes from A Vedic Purana, The same texts Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us to reject. Why are you openly defying Guru Sahib on this? You can't say you're not because its crystal clear you are man.

 

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My whole point is one can bring up many ridiculous questions which make many, many things seem anti-Gurmat with the logic you are using.

Bro if people followed your life on thinking we'd end up insulting Mahapurkhs and following our own manmat rather than actual Gurbani. You don't want to show Gurbani despite insisting multiple interpretation can exist and proclaiming that someone needs Santhiya and Gyan to do that. I showed the words of a Mahapurkh and you rejected it. They are the ones with the Sanythia and Gyan yet you reject them when they don't conform to you. Such Hypocrisy.

 

I'd like to add that @singhbj is being a total hypocrite. He disobeys his parents if he refuses to cut his kesh while living with them, thus dishonouring them. Bro, Don't pick and choose religion. I'm young, I can't move out as of yet, however my mother is disabled. Due to her I stick around to serve her and make sure She doesn't injure herself (as my father has work and other stuff to contend to), I do this while wrestling a part time job and University. I'm not a leech or a "bottom-feeder" however people like you won't follow your own advice shouldn't throw stones at others houses without having a poke around yours first.

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