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The Christian menace to Sikhi in Canada


Guest Jagsaw_Singh
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Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh
2 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Having departed from the forum at the end of June 2019 because I needed to enter a new field of work and had to re-train to learn some essential skills, I only returned to the Internet in general just prior to the New Year, so on that front I'm afraid you're completely off-target.

Shall we ask the mods to post records of who's logged in when and for how long? I'm sure the logs will absolve me of the very thing you're accusing me of. I have nothing to hide. You never agree to this whenever I suggest we do this. Why is that?

Unlike you, who wrote one of your usual self-aggrandising posts decrying the people on this forum for not huffing your farts to the extent that you'd like before departing for the umpteenth time in that feminine and overly dramatic way you feel compelled to behave, vowing never to return, what do I see when I return to this forum in December 2019?

JAGSAW NEVER LEFT, lmao. You lonely little scrote. You even stated before you turned tail -- and I paraphrase -- "if someone posts using my screen-name, then it isn't me." So, who am I talking to now, Jagsaw? Is it one of your clones?

Unlike you, my life doesn't revolve around the Internet. It's okay if your benefits don't cover your expenditure, and you need to spend your life trolling on internet forums for various organisations (Hope Not Hate? Socialist Worker? One of the U.N. affiliated organisations? Nah, too upmarket for you. I suppose you'd be lucky to have an active WordPress blog, lol), spreading disinformation and discord. I hear it's a well-paid profession for the dedicated.

And it's funny how you always seem to manufacture this fantasy scenario that I'm disabled. That, inadvertently, does reveal a lot about you. Psychologists call it "projection". I'm guessing you're disabled, hence why you've spent your entire life on this forum, and even when you've gone off in a huff, you haven't really gone anywhere, have you? You still lurk on here like the little undesirable spastic that you are, hour after hour, day after day, week after week... you get the picture.

So what is it, Jagsaw? What disability have you got? Physical or mildly psychological (aside from being a raging Trotsky devotee)? Is that how you managed to ensnare an '84 orphan? There were no takers in the UK I suppose.

You thought she'd be grateful; she'd forever worship the ground on which you trod. You assumed because you "saved" her from such a horrible past, that she'd grovel and thank you every day for being her saviour, her knight in tutti-stained armour. But that's not how it turned out, is it? She doesn't appreciate you at all; your untapped "genius" and all those quirks and foibles that make you what you are, completely undervalued and ignored. And whose fault is that? It's yours. You just wanted to virtue signal what a wonderful human being you are. You assumed you'd be able to laud it over her; to keep her in check. You wanted to be congratulated everywhere you went, but that's not how it worked out, is it, you mongoloid. 

You're just a meal-ticket; a vessel through which she obtained a plane ticket and a visa to the West. I bet that money she's been sending home all these decades (either with your knowledge or behind your back) is something you resent, too. Ultimately, that's all you are to her. Currency. If I were you, I too would spend my entire life on the Internet trying to escape the galling feeling of an empty existence devoid of any real connection and meaning.

Remember, I didn't marry an '84 orphan. I'm busy trying to make something of myself before committing to marriage. I'm also not disabled. So, there's no point in resorting to deflecting what I've said to you onto me like you usually do when you feel things are hitting a little too close to home. The above is all you, and you know it. I don't need you to admit any of it. The Force is strong with me, I can sense it, lmao. 

 

Never change, Jagsaw. You're good entertainment if nothing else. :)

I don't think I have ever, in all my life, encountered any man or woman as bitter and hate-filled as yourself MisterSingh. You  truly are a sad little man - and it genuinely is very sad. I mean it. You may not be handicapped at all - I honestly believe you when you say you're not. I'm just pointing out to you that you certainly come across as someone that is. But that's perception and in so many ways that's directly linked to this thread of mine because as I've been saying over and again the Christians are growing bigger and stronger in Punjab because they have taken the time to analyse the way in which to alter perceptions about the character of Punjab. We all have perceptions about each other here. You and so many people here have on numerous occasions pointed out that they and you perceive me as a w**ker and t!t. That's fine with me....and on occasions, like my poetry thread, I even call myself a dungar dufus. Perceptions are fine by me because I'm fully confident in who I am and what I know. I never go after anybody but because I am perceived as a know it all others can't help but coming after me. It's a perpetual vicious circle. I write about things...people come along and start ruining my discussions by throwing abuse and starting arguments.....thus people then begin to perceive that arguments and jagsaw are closely related, i.e. Jagsaw = Argument - Banned.  That's fine with me. Like I said, I'm super confident with who I am - I know it borders on arrogance but I'm not in the business of changing perceptions about me. I know I know things and I'm here on this forum to share those things I know. There is nothing I can do to stop people deliberately starting arguments wherever I go on this forum and whatever I say. People (e.g you) have their own problems / issues and reasons for doing what they do. 

I have a few questions for you. It's up to you whether you want to answer them or not. To be honest it makes no difference now because at the end of page 14, once you had one of your funny little episodes and, right out of the blue, for no reason at all, made the conscious decision to ruin the discussion and start an  argument, the discussion and positive suggestions were over and done with anyway. So....the questions:

1) Even after what I said in my last message do you really still have no idea just how retarded you look to others when you use academic language and structure your sentences like Jacob Rees Mogg on an informal discussion forum for da yoots dem ?

2) What is it about someone raising the issue of the growing Christian movement in Punjab that made you angry and kill the discussion dead ?

3) When Ranjeet asked me for solutions to the problems and I gave him my answer (pasted again below) what is it inside of you that made you want to kill the discussion dead and provoke arguments instead ?

Any suggestions or solutions ?

Yes....we start with something simple - This is an ideal opportunity for all Punjabi Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus (including ravidassias) to come together, unite and work together.  Every Panchayat in every village in Punjab need to have discussions with their corresponding Tehsildars - make their concerns heard, i.e be on the look-out for and nip in the bud all attempts by Christians to purchase land around the firnis of each village. My understanding is that the land for these churches that have been springing up all over the place are being purchased by NRIs from North America who are very anxious and zealot about 'spreading the gospel of jesus' in Punjab.  When warning signs are triggered, i.e. the land is visible from main passing paved routes, the family are known to be Christian etc, the panchayat and tehsildar together must act to question the sale. None of this is new....What the Christians are doing in Punjab and how they're operating is not something new. I mentioned a few times on this thread - although nobody noticed - how the Christians in Punjab have taken a look at how the Sikhs have done things and copied the winning formula. Firstly, they took the  'our feelings and sentiments have been hurt' monster we created and ran with it for their own benefit, ensuring any criticism of them falls foul of criminal laws. Secondly, they looked at the purpose and position of the Nishan Sahib atop Gurdwaras across rural Punjab and ran with that too. They understood that by positioning the church and cross in strategic positions they could alter perceptions about the character of rural Punjab and by altering perceptions they were halfway there to conquering the mind. None of this is rocket science but all you guys on this thread talking absolute garbage need to start opening your eyes.

 

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one of the things is that i don't think people see christianity as a threat because its historically been mostly linked with struggling, lower caste indians.   but this new wave of christianity in punjab is much stronger this time.  massive churches popping up every where, super rich pastors with high caste surnames, huge banners stuck up everywhere.   these people are on a mission     

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It sucks because panjab is changing. What with the biharis moving in and smoking every where  and now the Christian's. And sikhs still wanting to go valait. All I think we can really do is make sure we dont sell our ancestral land. And if we dont have any to buy some. Which sucks for the locals because prices skyrocket and land is useless. But who knows wat will happen in the west with the right and nationalism on the rise? We dont want to become the Jews in the next century. A nation of immigrants whose land is preoccupied and overtaken by foreigners. 

I hope all the middle aged ppl. ( the ones in their 50s )will want to retire in panjab in the next 10 to 20 years.  It will hopefully stem the change.

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49 minutes ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

It sucks because panjab is changing. What with the biharis moving in and smoking every where  and now the Christian's. And sikhs still wanting to go valait. All I think we can really do is make sure we dont sell our ancestral land. And if we dont have any to buy some. Which sucks for the locals because prices skyrocket and land is useless. But who knows wat will happen in the west with the right and nationalism on the rise? We dont want to become the Jews in the next century. A nation of immigrants whose land is preoccupied and overtaken by foreigners. 

I hope all the middle aged ppl. ( the ones in their 50s )will want to retire in panjab in the next 10 to 20 years.  It will hopefully stem the change.

i agree 100%   sikhs should not sell their land at all!   a older retired Sikhs should start spending more time in punjab or even move back there,  that way it gives their kids a reason to visit back home and be more engaged with things over there. this way we also still have a ancestral land that we can return too.

we still own a couple of fields back in our pind, my thia started hogging them but eventually returned them back to us, whenever we go india the profit made from the fields is enough for our shopping and traveling for a month.  my parents also built a small house in our portion of the ancestral land (divided between my dad and his 2 brothers)   and my parents are planning to move there when they get retired, this way i will also continue visiting punjab.    coz we go every year my mum has made friends in the pind who even keep in touch with her once we come back to the UK.  i talk to some the singhs there as well  they know me now.  its important to go back and keep these ties and stay involved.   selling everything there is the stupidest thing you can do, especially considering our circumstances. 

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Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh
On 1/29/2020 at 5:27 PM, genie said:

Seems like theres alot of personal beef and agenda's in this thread and its going off on a tangent.

Lets get back to the discussion. If someone tries to provoke with personal attacks just ignore them and carry on with debate at hand.

Good advice brother.

I've already given some suggestions about what the first steps should be, on a panchayat / tehsildar level but moving on, from my own observations in Punjab, the 2 key issues are Education and Health. I've mentioned before that because 99% of the best schools in Punjab are Christian schools that does paint a misleading picture in people's minds that Christianity is associated with higher intelligence. We need to come up with solutions for that but....i'll be honest....I haven't had time to think about it deeply yet. The next point is Health. From my understanding, the Christians actively seek out people who are sick. They're constantly asking for names of ill people because not only are these people at their most vulnerable but these christians come with a solution: free treatment. Not just free treatment at a cheap dodgy institution like the Sikh seva groups do....but actual treatment at actual first class hospitals. The poor infrastructure of Education and Health in Punjab is the driving force behind what's happening. Sort them out and we solve our problem.

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On 1/29/2020 at 6:51 AM, MisterrSingh said:

 in that feminine and overly dramatic way you feel compelled to behave,

Side note: (MisterrSingh veer ji, if the use of the word feminine was a jab here, I hope you’ll reconsider using it in such a manner again, especially while engaged in such constructive dialogue. If it wasn’t a jab, please disregard.✌️)

Regarding the concerns about conversions, I’d like to point out some things. My paragraphs here might seem off topic at first, but they’re very much related to Sikhs converting to Christianity, so please bear with me.

I’ve lived in gta (Toronto area) all my life. I can tell you, for a fact, that ..the punjabi men here care more about talking hood, being jatt, and chasing panties in their (racing) bmws, rather than even beginning to know basic Sikh history. The same goes for the girls— just replace chasing panties with boxer briefs. Frankly, I don’t care about anyone’s sexual escapades..maybe even more power to them for that, I don’t know... But..... If someone were to ask my generation (& younger) what the core principles of Sikhi are, would we bet on them being able to answer? On the other hand, those who were born to Christian parents will know the core principles of their parents’ faith, even if they don’t follow suit. Same goes for those born to Muslim parents who might not practice Islam themselves— they’ll still know Islam’s core principles. With such basic knowledge out of the equation, it will likely lead to conversions.

Look no further than the Sikh camps at gurdwaras (at least, the ones I attended). I volunteered at one 2 years ago, and it was a complete joke. They want to teach the kids how to tie a dastaar & how to read Punjabi, and my personal favourite..the names of the gurus’ family members. The kids will forget in a week or less, so why not give them answers that they can give to non-Sikhs about Sikhi? Christianity grows because of the lovey dovey messages. When Christians teach kids, they don’t focus on the bloody battles or the meats that they cannot eat (in fact, most Christians eat meats they’re not supposed to eat). The Sikh camp organizers were so impressed when I had suggested that we teach the kids about the (proven) science that’s in gurbaani, and that we teach the kids the gurbaani which talks about loving nature, being kind & even self-betterment (none of which are boring to kids). I told the organizers that they shouldn’t be impressed, because this is common sense when it comes to wanting kids to learn about a faith. Like c’mon.. Which kid wants to remember dates & names of panj takhts? One organizer asked me multiple times to come back in the following year & I told him that I wouldn’t because the Sikh camp principal couldn’t stand the fact that I had better ideas, including a simple suggestion I made about at least letting the kids know why they’re saying Wahiguru before eating, or even teaching the kids why everyone sits on the floor in the Langar, or at least, why we have a langar in the first place. The other organizers told her they liked my ideas but she and her husband didn’t budge. #haumai. She wanted us to scold the kids if they were jumping around in the darbar, so what I did instead was teach them why the far bar must be a place of peace & quietness. I taught the kids why people do chaur sahib seva & they ALL wanted to do it, but first I taught them why they must wash their hands. They didn’t even know that!!! But once they did chaur sahib, they were all proud of themselves. The principal just wanted them to learn how to read Punjabi, memorize some shabads & dates, and of course learn how to stay quiet amongst other children. Imagine a person asked these kids why they have to cover their head in a gurudwara, or why they do chair sahib seva. If the kid didn’t know, all it would take to break his already-minimal faith would be someone convincing the kid that these are just unnecessary practices that Jesus doesn’t care about because Jesus is all about love instead of rituals. Anyway, with these types of Sikh camps, kids will just grow up thinking Sikhi is boring & very strict. Boring enough to leave it for the oh so loving Christianity, I wonder..? (That wasn’t a jab at Christianity.)

Enough of us have grown up in the west, so there’s no excuse for us to not come together and plan these type of lessons. I grew up with white people my entire life and I was shocked when I found out how many grown sikhs don’t know the basics of sikhi & how many mixed up Hindu practices with Sikh practices. I was even more surprised when I found out that many sikhs only care about being jatt. Being jatt has done nothing for me in Canada, but maybe I can’t relate because I didn’t grow up with Punjabis in areas like Brampton, but I doubt it would’ve done anything for me. How could it have? THREE guys I dated were so proud to be jatt Sikh, with the big khanda in their car & the huge kadaas on their wrists, but they didn’t even know the core principles of sikhi. I mean, c’mon man... So many people don’t even know that you can be a good Sikh even if you don’t keep your kes, nor read gurbaani. The baabay who only repeat “Amrit shak kay, Guru vaaley Sikh bano” are a big problem, and I understand if some of you might think I’m wrong to state such a thing. I was surprised to know how many people within our community think that putting money in the golak is an offering & that it’s a must. Yes, I mean THAT type of offering. (Saw it mentioned by a gora at Harimandar Sahib & sikhs just let him believe that we put money in golaks as a “sacrificial offerings to their god”.) That, and Christianity, are examples of what we’re losing sikhi to. Makes sense to me though.. When there’s a community of people who propose a lifestyle where there are no rules other than believing Jesus is lord, what more can the uneducated want?

So are they quick to convert because the missionaries tell them about this (false) 1 step rule? Just think about how often Christians say that Christianity isn’t even a religion! And just like that, people will see it as simplified, spiritual liberation— so easily achievable.

I wouldn’t be surprised if these Christians in Punjab have rehabs set up only for those who convert, just like how they set up clean water in African villages only after the village people convert. Unconditional love, my foot.

My parents visit Punjab yearly & I've gone twice in the last 3 years, but I’ve never seen posters with Punjabi pastors & their churches. I scoffed at those photos within this thread while my heart dropped a little.

(I read a LOT within this thread, but not everything, so I apologize if I have addressed things which were already discussed.)

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Guest Jigsaw_puzzled_singh
On 1/31/2020 at 2:16 PM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

Good advice brother.

I've already given some suggestions about what the first steps should be, on a panchayat / tehsildar level but moving on, from my own observations in Punjab, the 2 key issues are Education and Health. I've mentioned before that because 99% of the best schools in Punjab are Christian schools that does paint a misleading picture in people's minds that Christianity is associated with higher intelligence. We need to come up with solutions for that but....i'll be honest....I haven't had time to think about it deeply yet. The next point is Health. From my understanding, the Christians actively seek out people who are sick. They're constantly asking for names of ill people because not only are these people at their most vulnerable but these christians come with a solution: free treatment. Not just free treatment at a cheap dodgy institution like the Sikh seva groups do....but actual treatment at actual first class hospitals. The poor infrastructure of Education and Health in Punjab is the driving force behind what's happening. Sort them out and we solve our problem.

ummm...OK....let me give you an example. There is a seva charity in the UK called The Sikh Union. It's a charity run exclusively by Sikhs from East Africa and is based in the West Midlands. Each year, they run eye camps and other health programmes in Punjab. Volunteers from the UK go to Punjab to perform this seva. What they do is they assemble Sikhs needing treatment at various Gurdwaras in Doaba and then take them to a private hospital in Jalandhar run by the rabid evangelical Seventh Day Adventist Christian church (Ruby Nelson Hospital)

Think about that for one moment: The Christians in Punjab don't  even have to go out hunting for recruits from the Sikh faith...…..Sikh seva groups actually collect them on their behalf and bring them to them. That's how stup1d we are and that's why we pretty much deserve everything we're getting.

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15 hours ago, Guest Cndn said:

.the punjabi men here care more about talking hood, being jatt, and chasing panties in their (racing) bmws, rather than even beginning to know basic Sikh history

That's not surprising, I remember warnings about this over twenty years ago at Sikh society meetings in uni. Let's be frank, certain people are trying to hijack the Sikh way of life to push their own caste identity out. They used to do it covertly a few decades ago (in the UK at least) and now they feel emboldened enough to do it openly. Most of them are confused themselves as their parents have raised them up this way. 

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