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Sikhs v Mughals


Big_Tera
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24 minutes ago, Big_Tera said:

 

 

You failed to answer the question. Where are articles of Hindu and Muslim Jatts?  Dont dishounour the Sikh faith by attributing any 'greateness' to being jatt then comming from Sikhi. The Turban-Kesh. Beard - Dhari ect instill the warriorness in us and the people we are and were.

Its also a numbers game. The British saw the Jats were in the majority at the time. Why not praise these people and concentrate on them as they will be the most valuable assets to exploit and use. Most of Jatt praise comes from actual jatts themselves. Be it in bhangra songs or movies. Dont blow your own trumphet pal. Have some common sence and manners and decency.

Also many Jatts are stealing the limelight away from other communities who did great things at the early stages of Sikhism.  There were no racist colonials to note this down as they had not reached India at that early time. Remember these people who helped establish Sikhism or you would probably be a muslim or hindu today had it not been for their great sacrifices. 

 

 

Obviously didn't bother reading any of the accounts... some which say being kesa dhari was a jatt tradition before they adopted sikhi. 

You seem to think there is some kind of burden of proof on me to provide accounts regarding Hindus & Muslims.... you want such accounts go find them, and while your at it find some about other Sikh tribes... there must be some, there's plenty about nihangs. 

None of the praise in all those accounts comes from jatts.. they are all non jatt, non Sikh & non Indian accounts ranging from 17th to 20th century.

People shouldn't be so ready to speak provocatively using insulting language on here about jatts & not get a reply. Everyone knows who started this. 

The difference is everything he said bout jatts was based on his prejudices. Everything I posted is from historical accounts by non jatts & from several sources that cover several hundred years.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mahakaal96 said:

The only thing I've done is research historical accounts & posted them here because of the constant casteist views of a certain member. At no point did I say I agree in part or completely with the accounts posted. It is what it is... independant eye witness accounts by non Sikh individuals from a vast period of time. 

By your very logic, why are there no similar accounts about Sikh tharkhans or Sikh chumars?

Similar British accounts about the attributes of other tribes such as native Americans, abhoriginis, zulus & middle eastern tribes can be found. Likewise derogatory accounts about sikhs (mainly about nihangs) by the British are also available. Of course the praise & large part of the whole picture is down to Guru kirpa but why are similar accounts about other tribes like tharkan or chumars not found to this extent? They received the same kirpa after all 

I think it was because they were studying us (pretty much from the get go) to form strategies for our eventual conquest. No one has ever denied that juts were numerically high in the panth (and it makes even more sense because they were the ones who would, and did, directly benefit economically from a moghul decline as it appears they been getting continually shafted over their farm revenues), but everyone knows that leaders in the panth came from all communities, this is from our own literature not foreign ones.  There are also accounts both independent (like Wendels) and our own literature (Bhangus) that mention war and conflict between juts and the Khalsa. Moghuls even used juts to hunt down Singhs in the jungles according to Bhangu. Brars are castigated therein too for (of all things) trying to seduce Singhnia when the Khalsa was lodging in their territory in the troubled 1700s. So the picture isn't not remotely simple as you make out. Plenty of juts were anti-Sikh and supported the moghuls and many appear to have been beaten into submission before they were compelled to join the Singhs. 

History speaks for itself. When we were subjugated by the British, they used standard divide and conquer policies and patronised conformist hordes in the numerically dominant community causing them to perceive their own Sikh brothers and sisters as lesser beings. They also introduced a lot of changes in our community that changed the nature of how many Sikhs perceived their own religion. It worked a treat for them. It's sad that people like yourself still haven't managed to get your head around this simple manipulation. 

Jagraj here explores some of the changes the western concepts caused with Sikh understanding of their own faith:

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mahakaal96 said:

The only thing I've done is research historical accounts & posted them here because of the constant casteist views of a certain member. At no point did I say I agree in part or completely with the accounts posted. It is what it is... independant eye witness accounts by non Sikh individuals from a vast period of time. 

By your very logic, why are there no similar accounts about Sikh tharkhans or Sikh chumars?

Similar British accounts about the attributes of other tribes such as native Americans, abhoriginis, zulus & middle eastern tribes can be found. Likewise derogatory accounts about sikhs (mainly about nihangs) by the British are also available. Of course the praise & large part of the whole picture is down to Guru kirpa but why are similar accounts about other tribes like tharkan or chumars not found to this extent? They received the same kirpa after all 

Obviously if there is a bigger population of one particular community/caste they will naturally have a bigger influence due to their numbers. This does not mean they are better then others. its like football team who plays 11 against 2. who is going to score the most goals?

As I mentioned before the pioneers of a religion are ones who should take a big deal of credit not new commers who try and take all the limelight. 

Its time to wake up to reality this is not 17th century india when jatts bullied and dominated other castes. Now other castes have become more wealthly then jatts. I know its painfull to see this reality but you have to accept the truth. your reign has come to an end.

Jatts are by their own admission are peasant caste. now go back and enjoy your peasant or should I say pheasant pie. 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think it was because they were studying us (pretty much from the get go) to form strategies for our eventual conquest. No one has ever denied that juts were numerically high in the panth (and it makes even more sense because they were the ones who would, and did, directly benefit economically from a moghul decline as it appears they been getting continually shafted over their farm revenues), but everyone knows that leaders in the panth came from all communities, this is from our own literature not foreign ones.  There are also accounts both independent (like Wendels) and our own literature (Bhangus) that mention war and conflict between juts and the Khalsa. Moghuls even used juts to hunt down Singhs in the jungles according to Bhangu. Brars are castigated therein too for (of all things) trying to seduce Singhnia when the Khalsa was lodging in their territory in the troubled 1700s. So the picture isn't not remotely simple as you make out. Plenty of juts were anti-Sikh and supported the moghuls and many appear to have been beaten into submission before they were compelled to join the Singhs. 

History speaks for itself. When we were subjugated by the British, they used standard divide and conquer policies and patronised conformist hordes in the numerically dominant community causing them to perceive their own Sikh brothers and sisters as lesser beings. They also introduced a lot of changes in our community that changed the nature of how many Sikhs perceived their own religion. It worked a treat for them. It's sad that people like yourself still haven't managed to get your head around this simple manipulation. 

Jagraj here explores some of the changes the western concepts caused with Sikh understanding of their own faith:

 

 

 

 

I'm very aware of what the British did to our panth, especially through the formation of the SGPC & the sidelining of Akali Nihang Singh's 

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2 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

I'm very aware of what the British did to our panth, especially through the formation of the SGPC & the sidelining of Akali Nihang Singh's 

 

So you can see that but you can't see how they used divide and conquer policies on us based on caste? I mean they did it to every last other people they colonised - do you think they exempted us from it? I still think you could learn a lot from the video. 

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2 minutes ago, Jonny101 said:

Mahakaal ji, it is a huge blunder on your part to divide our Shaheeds and warriors of the past in something so silly as caste. As a Jat you are claiming Baba Deep Singh Jee Baba Budha Jee and others while Ramgarias are claiming Jassa Singh Ramgaria as their own, Khatris are claiming our Gurus and Hari Singh Nalwa, Rajputs are claiming Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and Brahmins are claiming Bhai Mati Das, Bhai Sati Das and Bhai Dayal Das as their own not realizing that all the accomplishments they attained and Shaheedis they gave was ONLY for Sikhi and the casteless principles that Sikhi upholds.

Our atma has no caste. You could have very well have been born a non Jat in your previous lifetimes and who knows, if you show too much Jaat Abhiman, you might reincarnate into a caste that you deem as low or inferior to your own as the God's way of teaching a lesson. Jaat Paat is only skin deep. Improve your spritual life, keep as much Rehit as possible while Japping Naam is what really counts in the Dargah of Vaheguru.

 

The division & other rubbish on this thread was not started by myself. It's ok for a member to refer to every other jatt as phudus on this site but if someone posts independant accounts that are positive about jatts then they are branded as being casteist? Does that sound fair & according to the principles of truth to you?

you are very right when you say our atma has no caste. Our prarabdh Karma dictates the family, religion, caste etc that you are born into. Atam Gyan katha from Suraj Prakash as uttered by the mouth of bhai Daya Singh on direct instructions from 10ve patshah covers the whole topic.

Bottom line is when someone is going out their way to insult jatts at every opportunity then why should we stay quiet. No one pulled him up on his casteist comments but as soon as someone put up something positive about jatts the whole forum comes out to play

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The division & other rubbish on this thread was not started by myself.

 

The division in our community has been there way before me and you were born!

If you want to talk about jut characteristics don't solely rely on flattering, antiquated and motivated foreign sources - let's also use the perceptions of the people who interact with them the most - other Sikhs. Or have you been so solidly brainwashed that you think their opinions and perceptions don't matter? That's the whole problem, other voices have been sidelined and excluded from this debate - probably because too many people don't want to hear about the other side of the coin. And yes, there has been an ongoing and persistent campaign to skew Sikh history to try and make it look like juts are the be all and end all of Sikhs. That's what has caused most of our problems. That's what needs top be countered and faced up to. We should have dealt with this a long time ago - but better late than never.  

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11 minutes ago, Big_Tera said:

Is it any wonder that Jatt women run off with muslims.. Their parents concentrate on instilling jatt nonsence into them that they forget about teaching them about their actual faith. 

 

What else can you expect from a people with a peasant brain and mentality?

Keep spewing all the rubbish you want, & if you think it's just jatt girls who do such thing then you are obviously delusional.

You can have all the biased views you want, fact is historical accounts from hundreds of years ago are still available and there for everyone to see..... who cares about what some bum who calls himself big tera thinks? 

Largest numbers of sikhs outside of Panjab and abroad are jatts for your information & as for the distribution of wealth we all know the truth.

Anyway, I hope everyone enjoyed the accounts about jatts from non jatts from hundreds of years ago. There's actually plenty more out there if anyone is interested. 

Jealousy is a very bad trait.... if outsiders praised jatts but didn't mention any other caste then so be it.

Last post from me. I don't need to justify or argue any point. I posted independant non Sikh non jatt accounts.... everyone can take them how they want.... fateh 

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