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Sikhs v Mughals


Big_Tera
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8 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

I take it most jatts in the 16th, 17th & 18th centuries could read English so would have been brainwashed by these accounts into becoming docile loyal foot soldiers as you say..... funny then that 2 of the most famous Indian freedom fighters against the British, Shaheed Bhagat Singh & Shaheed Udam Singh were both jatts

udham singh was NOT a jatt u mug ,he was a saini, just like sukha (from sukha jinda) and akali phoola singh.

U really havnt answered 1 question, if jatts r so fantastic, y did most jatts of panjab bend over n convert to islam? Fact is watever tribe u belong to of panjab, it isnt ur tribe/blood which made u fantastic, it was sikhi.

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4 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Jathedar of the lastest Sikh struggle was a Jatt and Brar.  Sant ji`s training was all received from Gurmukhs and Gurbani and this was his strength and honour, however their seems to be a pattern here.  Baba Deep Singh ji came from the jatt clan as well.  These Gurmukhs fought from the Khalsa Panth and the latter fought without his head.  However other clans that are Sikhs want to take the glorify of Baba Deep Singh ji fighting without his head away from him.  They claim to be historians on forums for the last 20 years, but hate the Shakti of Gurbani and bathe themselves in the false hankhari Shakti of the devta and devis.     

baba deep singh was a mazbhi, not jatt (sandhu) which has been incorrectly spread all over the gaff.

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9 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Keep spewing all the rubbish you want, & if you think it's just jatt girls who do such thing then you are obviously delusional.

You can have all the biased views you want, fact is historical accounts from hundreds of years ago are still available and there for everyone to see..... who cares about what some bum who calls himself big tera thinks? 

Largest numbers of sikhs outside of Panjab and abroad are jatts for your information & as for the distribution of wealth we all know the truth.

Anyway, I hope everyone enjoyed the accounts about jatts from non jatts from hundreds of years ago. There's actually plenty more out there if anyone is interested. 

Jealousy is a very bad trait.... if outsiders praised jatts but didn't mention any other caste then so be it.

Last post from me. I don't need to justify or argue any point. I posted independant non Sikh non jatt accounts.... everyone can take them how they want.... fateh 

Yes I must actually apologise for what I said about Jatt women. Yes you are right this does happen in all communities/castes. Dont want to tar all Jatts with the same brush. 

Sorry for my comments regarding that. 

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6 minutes ago, Big_Tera said:

Yes I must actually apologise for what I said about Jatt women. Yes you are right this does happen in all communities/castes. Dont want to tar all Jatts with the same brush. 

Sorry for my comments regarding that. 

Yeah, that's too deep. That issue isn't limited to any caste - any apnee who lets her guard down is susceptible. Looks like poor gorian get it as bad, if not worse.

But it must be said that the whole thing started for us with all this bhangra partying drinking obsession too many people have. It just spread community wide  from the 80s (which is understandable because young people like that stuff) but we all know how that ended up for us...

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5 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Yeah, that's too deep. That issue isn't limited to any caste - any apnee who lets her guard down is susceptible. Looks like poor gorian get it as bad, if not worse.

But it must be said that the whole thing started for us with all this bhangra partying drinking obsession too many people have. It just spread community wide  from the 80s (which is understandable because young people like that stuff) but we all know how that ended up for us...

Yeh I have seen cases from all communities. It something we all need to work together on to eradicate. At the end of the day I see all Sikhs as Brothers and Sisters regardless of their community background. anyone can become a victim under the right circumstances. 

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34 minutes ago, StarStriker said:

udham singh was NOT a jatt u mug ,he was a saini, just like sukha (from sukha jinda) and akali phoola singh.

U really havnt answered 1 question, if jatts r so fantastic, y did most jatts of panjab bend over n convert to islam? Fact is watever tribe u belong to of panjab, it isnt ur tribe/blood which made u fantastic, it was sikhi.

I think what Jagsawsingh is getting at. Is directly from the Sikh population Jatts are the best out of Sikhs and contributed the most. 

Maybe they did contribute the most in terms of numbers in the army that fought against the Mughals which is commendable and brave. 

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6 hours ago, StarStriker said:

baba deep singh was a mazbhi, not jatt (sandhu) which has been incorrectly spread all over the gaff.

Really? If u could provide proof that would be great.i mean my dad who is very casteist, would be so shocked ;) 

Also, the debate has finally calmed down, so i dont want to flare it up, but....And i must say it was resolved very nicely and humbly, so it seems we r making progress!

But KPS Gill  and Brar were also jatts, and they were evil. I read Julio Rubeiro's autobiography (he was the head of police in panjab during kharkoo lehar for some time) and he says KPS Gill would order more torture n more atrocities saying these ppl are jatts n u dont know how to deal with them, so let me handle them the hard way..(of course Julio could be trying to put all the blame on KPS to make himself look good, but again this is a published book, so kps could see his lies). And Brar in his autobiography even says that his family always served the government of india loyally, even during the british raaj, and he says he saw kartar singh sarabha and bhagat singh and udham singh as terrorists too. So if we jatts have hardcore traits, they can be used for utmost good n utmost evil. Cynthia Mehmoud said that while sikhs can be commended for fighting for justice, human rights, and being altruistic and there were amazing examples of bravery from sikhs in 1984. She continues but sikhs were also responsible for the most depravity, most of the panjab police were also sikhs, and they invented new tortures that became famous world wide for being the most atrocious. When we said they were not true sikhs. She said they say they are sikhs.

So labels like sikh, jatt, brahmin are nothing, its our actions that matter. Labels wont give us the strength to automatically do good. we have to choose to do so.

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Going back to the original topic, Moghuls were defeated by the collective actions of Singhs, no one caste can try and claim the victory as theirs, people from all communities sacrificed, fought and became shaheeds. This is irrefutable. If one group has numerical dominance, it's only logical that they would have more fighters, but this doesn't detract from all the sacrifices made by others.

It's very telling that since the Europeans appeared and interpreted things through a caste/racial lens, a worldview that many of our people subsequently adopted (and still have as we can see from the thread), we've done nothing but become weaker and weaker.

What I find really shocking is that certain apnay haven't learnt the lessons from Hindu Ksyhatria history. They too deemed themselves as natural warriors, doing something that others couldn't based on some caste/racial/tribal identity. They looked down on others (many of whom ironically make up the bulk of the SIkh population), and look where that got India. Subjugated, raped and pillaged for centuries. It's only when everyone, including those that were previously deemed somehow inadequate for these things, united and fought back - through the Khalsa, that this was finally reversed.  There is a lesson in that for us. If we don't imbibe that truth, we too will have nothing but slavery to look forward to.

 

 

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Its also worth noting that apart from Jatt Sikhs there is no notable  achievements made from other faiths who claim jatt anccestry. No records of art, culture and higher intellect. Such as the Spartans of ancient greece who constructed beatiful temples and civilisations. The jatts mainly latched onto the dominat religion that they resided in. Most Jat also became muslims showing that they were weak people who would bow down to anything aslong as they kept their farms. Your making out Jatts were some super human race when they are not. This is probably due to your community brainwashing you that you are special and better then other Sikhs when this is not the case. in terms of wealth distrubution. It is pretty much equal.Theres many poor Jatts aswell as wealthy ones. I am not particulary knoweledgable of Chamaars as you mention. But I know soke very wealthy Chamaars who own big property empires. 

Its  common issue were people latch on to the Sikh identity to try and big themselves up. Were were Jatt when the Sikhs were being attacked in the intial stages? Its was up to the early Sikhs to stay loyal to their faith and defend it during this time jatts were converting to Islam in their droves. Even Pakistan Jatts are ashamed of their own caste and never refer to it. Not sure why you feel the need to. 

 

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