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Proof that Sri Chand handed over his sect to Guru Hargobind Sahib Jee!


shastarSingh
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Just now, Sukhvirk76 said:

which brahmgianis have i made snarky comments about?

you see shadows everyhere..

Bro you asked for a list of vetted Brahmgyanis, treating them as nothing more than a job rather than a state of mind. If you don't believe that Bhai Gurdas Ji is a Brahmgyani then faults on you.

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Does this sound like a loving respectful person or one who has been shown his own lack ?

Once the elder son of Guru Nanak Sahib Jee, Baba Sri Chand Ji went to Amritsar to visit Guru Raam Daas Sahib Jee, the fourth heir to the throne of Guru Nanak Sahib Jee.

Baba Sri Chand Jee tried to belittle and laugh at the Guru. He said, “O Raam Daas! Why is your beard so long?” The Guru replied “I have a long beard to wipe the feet of holy men like you.” The Guru Sahib’s humility hit Baba Sri Chand Jee who fell at the feet of Guru Sahib and he said; “Now I know why I didn’t become chosen to be Guru and instead you are sitting on my father’s throne.”

“Kabeera, janaa gyan tah Dharam hai jahaa jhooth tah paap Jahaa lobh tah kaal, jahaa khima tah aap”

Kabeer, where there is spiritual wisdom, there is righteousness and Dharma. Where there is falsehood, there is sin.

Where there is greed, there is death. Where there is forgiveness, there is God Himself. –> Bhagat Kabeer, SGGS

 

Given that fact ... why would Akalroop Guru Arjun Dev ji be stuck/require help with Gurbani uccharan that is beadbhi of Guru Maharaj and Gurbani? To be honest I have only heard this Sukhmani Sahib story being pushed with force by 3HO , Gobind Sadan and others to justify Sri Chand Worship and the introduction of Yoga and Mudras to gurbani recitation and hindu practices .. 

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35 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

 To be honest I have only heard this Sukhmani Sahib story being pushed with force by 3HO , Gobind Sadan and others to justify Sri Chand Worship and the introduction of Yoga and Mudras to gurbani recitation and hindu practices .. 

I've heard it from all denominations since I was a kid: DDT- heavy gurdwaras, Nanaksar gurughars, your standard Singh Sabha, etc. I think it's less about bigging up Sri Chand but more about showing how utterly free of ego our Guru Sahibs were, and more importantly, the reverence in which they held Guru Nanak Sahib, that they'd be more than willing to tolerate his occasionally disrespectful offspring.

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1 hour ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

i was trying to point out that you are happy to call people who's in your opinion are 'brahmgiani' and whose opinion I should accept unconditionally whilst any opinion voiced by anyone who doesn't align with your own world view is some lesser source or worse some lackey with a sinister agenda. Its a neat trick... for sheer efficiency i asked you for you vetted list that way we don't need to have a discussion i can just read from the same page as you and nod in agreement.

 

Bro the only person in this thread I called a Brahmgyani was Bhai Gurdas Ji, if you beg to differ then please take it up with Guru Sahib since he said that Bhai Gurdas Ji's varan were there keys to understanding Guru Granth Sahib Ji and by extension sikhi. 

 

You asked for a mortal Historian and I provided one, yet with all that insurmountable evidence you still rejected all that for the words of someone who isn't even versed in Sikh history. 

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56 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I've heard it from all denominations since I was a kid: DDT- heavy gurdwaras, Nanaksar gurughars, your standard Singh Sabha, etc. I think it's less about bigging up Sri Chand but more about showing how utterly free of ego our Guru Sahibs were, and more importantly, the reverence in which they held Guru Nanak Sahib, that they'd be more than willing to tolerate his occasionally disrespectful offspring.

I mean the flavour that these guys propagate ...not like the style we know from sakhis like the one where Guru Ram Das ji says my beard is long to dust the feet of saints , they actually say that Guru Arjan Dev ji got stuck at Astpadi 16 and then he went to go ask Sri Chand ...that's a bit different than Guru ji being visited by Baba Sri Chand ji and Guru ji asking with nimrata for opinion from Baba Sri Chand. I agree that App Parmeshvar would have no ego to be hurt by slurs or strikes by ego ridden individuals.  

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42 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

I haven't rejected anything you have said if anything I have accepted it as things to consider. How do you know someone isn't versed in sikh history.

 

Bro, once again all you've done is bluntly ignored what Gurbani says. That isn't things to consider, that is things to accept.

 

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How do you know someone isn't versed in sikh history. You have made a assumption based on nothing just on your own prejudice as far as I can see.

Bro, the same person didn't bother telling you the exact history about the very Akhara you were harping on about. Historians have a completely polar view to him, so tell me who's more likely to be right? most of the people there are nothing more than Sevadars, the actual historians are found in the university. I should know this because iv had dealing with them.

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I'm sorry if you see my unwillingness to yet be convinced by your absolutism, instead of blaming me maybe you should develop a more coherent argument. Just telling me something is the truth and the only way to understand something doesn't mean I will. present me with a balanced, well evidenced rationally presented, cogent and coherent proposition and I'm sure i'll be persuaded. 

I presented evidence from actual historians and Gurbani. If you don't want to accept the words of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Bhai Gurdas then I don't know why you're calling yourself a Sikh. A Sikh has absolute faith in Gurbani, no ifs or buts. If you can't accept something that's written in it, then im afraid you're looking in the wrong place for the fault. I'm not sure what more you want? Diplomas of the scholars I used? their credentials? Thus far you've presented the words of someone you've not vetted (or anyone) and are trying to inflate it up.

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The bit that gets me is that basically reading between the lines you seem to have dislike of any recognition of Baba Sri Chand. You also seem to see any discussion of him a a modern revisionism whilst discounting the idea that revisionism can and may be a two way street

You need to learn to read better bro. I distinctly said the Udasi played their part in helping the grow of Sikhi.

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I have no idea what History books you keep reading, but not one person in this thread (or in any contemporary history book) claims that the Udasi's didn't do their fair bit in helping Sikhs.

Bro for me Gurbani will ALWAYS be 100% fact. Gurbani said Sri Chand was evil hearted and carried sins on his back, and Bhai Gurdas Ji (contemporary historian and vetted (since you seem to want Guru Sahib to pick out who's reached enlightment or not) Brahmgyani) also mentions this. You're sitting there arguing its a 2 way street when the very leader of your Faith (Guru Granth Sahib Ji) says the exact opposite. 

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History s written by winners, however it is rarely lack and white.

Aurangzeb's records paint Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji as an antagonist of the state. They paint the common folk as barbaric and backwards, and Sikhs are Hindus. Would you argue that there's truth in these allegations? 

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2 hours ago, WaljinderSingh said:

Dhan dhan baba sri Chand ji.

You are entitled to your opinion.  The problem with your view is how it goes against Gurbani.  Gurmukhs like sant Gurbachan Singh ji agrees with Bhai Gurdas ji's vaar final word on who Sri Chand was; sri chand was close to the Guru but never followed the Gurus instructions and instead built a structure to stand directly against Sri Guru Angad Dev ji.

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3 hours ago, WaljinderSingh said:

This guy's name is gappi in Taksal circles.  There is no respect for him.  Gappi says Sri Guru Arian Dev ji bowed to Sri Chand.  Sant baba Gurbachan Singh ji tells this story and says the sampradiya say Sri Guru Arjan dev ji gave a big welcome but never says Guru Sahib bowed to Sri chand.  So why did gappi add this part.  Ask gappi the next time you see him about this.

Next gappi wants to say Sri chand name will stay in Sri Guru Granth Sabih ji.  Well Sri chand's name was already in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  Sri chand was added because he disrespected Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji by turning his back on the next Guru and Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji.  Gappi will always been known as gappi.  Gappi is always fishing to find things to say in his katha sessions because he truly doesn't have a deep understanding of Gurbani and while fishing he throws in lies to make the story have some more flavor.  Gappi will turn into a missionary if he could and got paid more money for it.

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