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The Black Prince - New Film Based On Sikh Maharajah Duleep Singh


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21 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Why do you have a problem with his secularism? Secularism or rather transcending religious identity is at the heart of Guru Nanak Dev Ji message. ?

Secular governing for Sikhs in a potential homeland leaves us in a situation where we are held back from spreading our Gurus message as well as preserving and protecting our religious identity.  These are I feel the very reasons we have a demand for a Sikh Homeland and what's the point of having one if we build up walls  around us which constrain us from spreading and experiencing the Gurus teachings.

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So I am sikh and I fully agree that as sikhs we have to look at things from different angles and aspects.. We have to consider all information.. 

You're reading me wrong. We have parameters as set by our Gurus. This is in the form of bani and historical precedent.

The problem today is that people start mixing in other systems into Sikhi, or get confused about differences because of areas of overlap. That's why you get those weird brothers and sisters who seem to think that SIkhi is almost identical to western liberal way of thinking but with external 'paraphernalia' like turbans and karay and whatnot. 

I'm saying look at the whole range of activities and written bani left by our Gurus and our history to get an idea of how we should be profiling. 

 

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I'm confused and kind of agree but to be absoulutely 'precise' about the identity and society that you are not 'disavowing' you need to share more about the characteristics of that 'identity' and 'society'. Please elaborate i struggle with finding the exclusivity

I'm surprised at your struggle. Look at amrit sanskar. Even if we aren't amritdhari today ourselves, this is what binds most of us (who call ourselves Sikh) together - in that someone in our families went through this at some point in the last few centuries, taking a distinctly different path to what would have been if they had not. Look, they could have very easily have converted to Islam (which many many Panjabis did), but they didn't (sometimes even facing death instead) and we've got a different identity now.  Our Khalsa heritage clearly demonstrates what I'd refer to as a distinction from others (which is a better word to choose than exclusivity). We DO have boundaries. Not to see this is to be blind. 

Guru Nanak Dev ji in their tenth form DID demarcate a distinct panth from others, and if you believe in dasam bani, specifically Bachitar Natak, he even states that it was Rabh themselves that told him to do this. 

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2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Guru Nanak Dev ji in their tenth form DID demarcate a distinct panth from others...

I get the impression some people struggle with or flat out refuse to believe the 'jagdi jyot' concept. They consider the guruship akin to the inheritance of a title and a physical throne, and nothing more. The spiritual and metaphysical aspects of it are ignored. I also feel some people of a particular ideological bent inwardly begrudge the militarisation of the Sikh faith that began with 6th Paatshah. I think they believe it goes against the non-confrontational / solely meditative - as they see it - ethos of the earlier Guru Sahibs. Eventually I believe this will cause a schism in the Sikh religion that will make the Dasam Granth issue look like child's play. In summary, I think Guru Nanak Dev Ji's message is apparently exclusively preferred and championed by some, because it's considered to be an apparently less taxing, more tolerant, and a considerably less stringent committment to following the religion compared to the all or nothing command of Gursikhi. 

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5 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I get the impression some people struggle with or flat out refuse to believe the 'jagdi jyot' concept. They consider the guruship akin to the inheritance of a title and a physical throne, and nothing more. The spiritual and metaphysical aspects of it are ignored. I also feel some people of a particular ideological bent inwardly begrudge the militarisation of the Sikh faith that began with 6th Paatshah. I think they believe it goes against the non-confrontational / solely meditative - as they see it - ethos of the earlier Guru Sahibs. Eventually I believe this will cause a schism in the Sikh religion that will make the Dasam Granth issue look like child's play. In summary, I think Guru Nanak Dev Ji's message is apparently exclusively preferred and championed by some, because it's considered to be an apparently less taxing, more tolerant, and a considerably less stringent committment to following the religion compared to the all or nothing command of Gursikhi. 

the problem is people are not familiar of the contemporary accounts of the Guru Sahiban's words on the questions we ask now e.g. why were there blank sections and pages left in Adi Granth by Guru Arjan Dev ji , why Didn't Guru Har Gobind write gurbani or  our ancestors asked these questions and the answers were given by Guru Sahiban at that time  . If people knew those accounts and the detailed history then NO-ONE would question the jyoti jyot concept or even authorship of the Granths 

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5 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

the problem is people are not familiar of the contemporary accounts of the Guru Sahiban's words on the questions we ask now e.g. why were there blank sections and pages left in Adi Granth by Guru Arjan Dev ji , why Didn't Guru Har Gobind write gurbani or  our ancestors asked these questions and the answers were given by Guru Sahiban at that time  . If people knew those accounts and the detailed history then NO-ONE would question the jyoti jyot concept or even authorship of the Granths 

I personally believe that Sikh institutions (SGPC, Akali-Dal, Dhumma faction Taksal, Balbir Singh faction Budha-Dal and others) have failed in properly propagating the essence of the Sikh ethos. Our modern day pracharks have become gapis who can only talk of Babas dispatching  tsunamis from one corner of the earth to another, or claim that they received oranges from Sachkhand. Such stupidity leaves no room for ithiaasic scrutiny or a proper appreciation/evaluation of Gurbani. That said, Sikh intellectualism has also failed in it's duty. How low have we fallen that even pseudo-scholars like Mcleod, Dahavan and Sian are given more credence than proper heavy weights like Jagjit Singh, Kapur Singh, Daya Singh and so forth. 

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13 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I get the impression some people struggle with or flat out refuse to believe the 'jagdi jyot' concept. They consider the guruship akin to the inheritance of a title and a physical throne, and nothing more. The spiritual and metaphysical aspects of it are ignored. I also feel some people of a particular ideological bent inwardly begrudge the militarisation of the Sikh faith that began with 6th Paatshah. I think they believe it goes against the non-confrontational / solely meditative - as they see it - ethos of the earlier Guru Sahibs. Eventually I believe this will cause a schism in the Sikh religion that will make the Dasam Granth issue look like child's play. In summary, I think Guru Nanak Dev Ji's message is apparently exclusively preferred and championed by some, because it's considered to be an apparently less taxing, more tolerant, and a considerably less stringent committment to following the religion compared to the all or nothing command of Gursikhi. 

I'm not really trying to argue on this, but for people who say Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji wasn't militarized, we should ask them who taught Baba Buddha Shastars? As far as I'm concerned he was the first he himself despite having Vaheguru's powers and being his light, he still owned Shastars, (every Nihang Dal believes this, and despite not being a Nihang, I believe this as well). If they think the Guru's light wasn't being transferred and that Vaheguru himself had to change the vessel, but not the light: then honestly I can't even bother to have a reasonable argument about much else, cause you need a common ground for an argument; (which is why I don't waste my time arguing on issues I have no knowledge about).

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4 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

You speak around the subject can you please be specific. . What is our Khalsa heritage. . What are the boundaries. .If you would elucidate i would be grateful

 

4 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

You speak around the subject can you please be specific. . What is our Khalsa heritage. . What are the boundaries. .If you would elucidate i would be grateful

Are you the same individual who goes around asking the most idiotic questions on Facebook?

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2 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

You speak around the subject can you please be specific. . What is our Khalsa heritage. . What are the boundaries. .If you would elucidate i would be grateful

Why don't you get off your own ar5e and study it yourself? There have been umpteen translations and studies on it. Plus you can use your own brain and read up on it.

Do your own homework mate. Don't expect to be spoon-fed like a baby. 

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8 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Why don't you qualify your and define what it is your trying to say, instead of making grandiose statements without the knowledge to back them up. . I know my history and well read. . Seems like you're the one lacking. .

If you are so sure that you know what you're talking about, why don't you confidently state your opinions then, instead of creeping around constantly asking other people their opinions?

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