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Why don't sikhs increase their numbers , like muslims do ? Why are we so complacent ?


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28 minutes ago, Esmiralda said:

Mister Singh, you are so correct, sir.  Where has the dignity gone? 

Rather than concerning ourselves with the declining number of Sikhs in the world (if in fact the claim is true) we should perhaps be concerning ourselves with the declining number of adherents to Sikhism. 

How will Sikhs be successful as a people, regardless of numbers and regardless of status, if they loose their cultural dignity?   

Don't get me wrong, I'm no way painting everyone in broad strokes, or suggesting I'm somehow above it all. But in terms of a spiritual Sikh perspective, we are too easily hoodwinked by surface pretensions, whereas if that surface is scratched in the slightest way, it reveals either outright deception in the most extreme cases, or at the less severe end of the scale a noticeable and underwhelming shallowness not too far removed from the supposed godless amongst us. I suppose, strange as it is to mention it, things are much the same for everyone, Sikh or non-Sikh alike.

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Muslims stand a better chance to multiply due to the man getting married to many wives. Some of these are in different countries. A single man can have upto 30 children if he can manage to have 6 wives with 5 children each. They marry young which helps them to have larger families. 

The benefits system in the UK has been totally milked by them so that they can get all the support they need especially the housing needed to raise these children. 

Their loyalty to their religion and their committment to teaching their children how to read their scriptures from an early age ensures that their children too follow in the same path. Their belief of God having told mankind to multiply and fill the earth has its origins in the Bible. 

The demand for extra women if a man is to marry many is met by women from other cultures who are then converted. Once women are converted then their children are automatically required to embrace their culture and religious beliefs owing to the complacency of other religious groups over theirs.

Their ladies are very serious about teaching their children how to read the koran. They hold tuition classes in their houses to teach children and parents also take this education just as seriously as they take other formal education. Due to their large families, the children are able to support the younger ones reducing the educational strain on the parents. Due to their large family structure, they are able to work as well, because they can leave their children for free with sisters etc. 

Sikhs on the other hand are monogamous - greatly reducing the maximum number of children to about 5. The lack of girls who are available for most practising Sikh boys is greatly reduced as the girls give more importance to higher education and ultimately want to lead a comfortable life. Late marriages, homosexuals, high rate of divorce and lack of taking our punjabi  learning seriously all contribute to us following other cultures or none at all.

Parchaar is taking place at the Guradwaras, however because we ourselves do not have a serious committment - we miss it all. The past generation have also not been taking religion seriously which contributes to children who are raised without the knowledge of their religion. They discover or stumble upon the basics a bit too late and struggle to catch up or turn into proper practising Sikhs.   

The rate of fertility problems has generally increased in all communities. People are having to resort to IVF and surrogacy and this limits the number of children they can eventually raise. Alcohol increases the problems faced both in physical health and reproductive health, lets forget practising the religious bit especially when people only visit or socialise with others if drink and meat is on the offer. 

All is not lost however, because there are large numbers who do respond to quality parchaar and quality services offered by some Guradwaras. The internet can serve as a weapon to encourage those weak and ignorant of faith to become stronger and also serve as a base for the sharing of information and arguments. i have seen larger families of proud mothers who regularly attend the Guradwara and the kids wear dastar and are totally committed. So yes in the near future - there is hope that these youngsters will contribute to a new more successful face of the Sikh religion. 

 

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11 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I generally agree with the opinions expressed in this thread, but i think there's only so long we can repeat the "quality over quantity" mantra until someone asks where this quality is hiding itself. Such quality would, eventually, manifest itself in some measurable or discernible form beyond the scope of appearances. Yet in my opinion we're actually regressing in many respects.

I don't want to say anything negative, but there are some people in our lot who should reproduce more; while others reproduce less; (the Gursikhs should have more kids, while the aam Sunday Sikh Liberals should have at best 1 kid; 6 kids vs 1, and our Panth would be restored to a religious majority, instead of every one in our community having some communist amount of kids). Today when we see these confused parents kids; their children usually end-up like Sunny Hundal; while children of Gursikhs usually tend to have a Gursikh standard, the fertility rate for the first one should one should be low; while the second type should reproduce like rabbits. (Bhai Jugraj Singh is an exceptional case, as Guru Sahib himself helped him, but that's a rare case). Some of our Punjabi/Subcontinental, (Non-Punjabi Subcontinental Sikhs), tend to have really bad things going on behind closed doors which makes children leave Sikhi.

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There's no doubt that power is in numbers (in many instances), and we need a greater number.  But I don't think blindly increasing the population is the answer.

So many Sikh families in Punjab who rely on agriculture have rather meager landholdings as it is.  What will happen if such families have many kids?  What will a family with 2 acres of land and 4 sons do?  Marginal landowners having a lot of kids will just propagate poverty.

 

In the west, on the other hand, I am all for Sikhs families strategically having 3-5 kids.  We desperately need the numbers.

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10 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Muslims etc largely keep their women uneducated, and under control of males. It means their lives become literally as a breeding machine and servant to the husband. Women in general have seen what a raw deal that is... men get to live life while women are stuck living as a serf. So in general not just Sikhs but women also want a slice of life as well now. Doesn't mean they don't want kids at all but maybe 1 or 2 instead of spending their entire adult lives either pregnant or breast feeding. I'd rather produce 1 upstanding child than have a whole litter that I can't care for and at the same time have a life for myself too where I can also contribute to society in some way and be educated.

You can do what you want for yourself, but there is Seva in for a woman who gives birth to the future of Panth. 

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1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

You can do what you want for yourself, but there is Seva in for a woman who gives birth to the future of Panth. 

You utter some of the most outrageous none sense as a man/woman on this board. *************************************

There is a world of difference between giving birth to the future panth with sikhi running through their veins than producing JANWARS left, right and centre prior any afore thought. No point in producing your 'litter' with diminished sikhi, civility and gentility. Manners maketh man.

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You are making noises through your ars*ho*e when you say quantity is better over quality. 

*****************************************

Most reasonably sensible people would choose QUALITY over QUANTITY, but not you. Oh, no. You just need to do some time travel and transport yourself to the dark ages where you belong. Honestly, for a young person, for, you claim you are one, you talk rubbish only fit for the 6th/7th century.

*******************************************

The panth requires only few super brilliant people to lead it in the right direction and not trillions of JANWARS to bring its DOWNFALL.

********************************************

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7 minutes ago, muscleman said:

There is a world of difference between giving birth to the future panth with sikhi running through their veins than producing JANWARS left, right and centre prior any afore thought. No point in producing your 'litter' with diminished sikhi, civility and gentility. Manners maketh man.

That's my thoughts on the subject summed up. For some reason that upsets a few people.

Crapping out a litter of feral little scrotes is somehow meant to translate into a superb fauj of Sikhs who somehow manage to embody all the qualities requires to navigate the tough terrain ahead of us. 

Muslims are NOT an example to aspire to. Their numbers mean NOTHING in the darbaar of the Lord.

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Guest Jacfsing2
1 hour ago, muscleman said:

You utter some of the most outrageous none sense as a man/woman on this board. *************************************

There is a world of difference between giving birth to the future panth with sikhi running through their veins than producing JANWARS left, right and centre prior any afore thought. No point in producing your 'litter' with diminished sikhi, civility and gentility. Manners maketh man.

*******************************************

You are making noises through your ars*ho*e when you say quantity is better over quality. 

*****************************************

Most reasonably sensible people would choose QUALITY over QUANTITY, but not you. Oh, no. You just need to do some time travel and transport yourself to the dark ages where you belong. Honestly, for a young person, for, you claim you are one, you talk rubbish only fit for the 6th/7th century.

*******************************************

The panth requires only few super brilliant people to lead it in the right direction and not trillions of JANWARS to bring its DOWNFALL.

********************************************

I've never said quality is less than quanity if you read my first you'd notice what I said. I've merely mentioned that quality as well as quanity matter. Don't accuse me of saying I have never said.

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