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Guest Jacfsing2

How Missionary Jatha Got Influence?

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On 4/13/2017 at 11:53 AM, Jacfsing2 said:

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! How exactly did the Missionary Jatha get it's influence especially among the majority of those who aren't Amritdhari? Is there a reason why true Gurmat is being attacked by our own people? Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

They been creeping in various small gurdwaras in punjab. They been holding small groups of forum, gathering and camps whether under direct name of theirs or names such as "Guru Gobind Singh Study Circle" etc etc. They target the active folks who are hungry to learn more about sikh religion. They started this trend in 90's. 

example - in chandigarh, they have sec 34 gurudwara which acts as missionaries base and like of katha guy Amrik Singh Chandigarh is from such area. They are all over punjab and stole our precious gems while our kaum care takers were busy fighting, building and looting gurdwaras (sgpc).

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On 14/04/2017 at 8:24 PM, genie said:

Missionary is a positive term we should create more missionaries to target non-sikh people and bring them into sikhi.

As for Indian Gov and the hindutva powers at play trying to split the Sikhs up over controversial issues have been with us for decades/years possibly centuries. The DG and Anti-DM crowds has been around for years. People are swayed by arguments and evidence not by violence and shutting down free speech and right to bring up controversial subjects. I think there needs to be decorum, where such controversial subjects are brought up they are debated in a respectful manor so that people on the opposition side are not made to feel they or what they hold as bani is disrespected.

That's why its always best to organise conferences where things can be discussed and understood between all the scholars, historians, professors so that a consensus can be reached instead of outsider powers dictating to us covertly via their paid agents what we should learn and teach our people.

sikh will never be missionaries  as missionaries believe they get brownie points for bringing people into christianity by breaking them from their root faith , they use bribes of food, scholarships , jobs etc , then once in they abandon the poor ... 

SIkhs will however be the bringers of peace, justice and food for all irrespective of their faiths . Missionary college, Ludhiana is a govt agent mill  the years where these scum have been prominent is since the start of the Anandpur resolution lehar. The older objecters were individuals manmatti  and ignorant

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On 13/04/2017 at 9:19 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

Missionary as in "Professors", and "Sikh Missionary Colleges". (I know how the other "Missionary" gets influence and it says something about our failures). Darshan Ragi and others are the ones I'm referring to.

 

There are some reasons why these miss naris have got some popularity recently.

 

1.The first is their extensive use of social media, especially facebook and youtube.Their media offensive is relentless and evergrowing, mainly because they are cathing those people who know nothing about Dasam Granth (amonhgst other things) first. They are corrupting minds to such an extent that thsoe people will not want to listen to anything else.

 

2. Their use the garb of being protectors of the SIkh Panth to get poplarity amongst panthic Sikhs. My own example. First time I heard of Dhunda was when he made a reply to kamlee kalesh over the vienna thing. I thought this dhunda is really good, very knowledgeable and very panthic. Even arguing with someone who told me what he was really like. But not having a sheep mentality and liking to do my own research it wasn't long before i realised what exactly he was. 

 

3. The miss naris have diluted some of the bedrock aspects of Gurmat, primarily naam simran. kali afghani came out with his no need to keep kes etc. Amongst the sizeable sikh youth who weren't fond of these anyway they became those in sikhi garb who vindicated others own shortcomings.

 

4. The rise of superstiition and deras in panjab has also helpled the miss naris, as they falsely claim that every dera or baba is fake and taking people away from Sikhi to own their paths. This may be true of ram rahim and ashutosh but definitely not true of those deras like nanaksar, taksals and dal panths. yet they blast every single one under the same bracket. So by brakceting all deras, Sikh and non-sikh alike they are capturing the minds of those Sikhs who have no allegiance or sharda with any Sikh dera but now have become firmly anti-dera of any kind.

 

5. The miss nari resistance to Badal Dal and SGPC because of both institutions being corrupt or heavily politicised has gone down well with those are who are anti badal and are looking for those who can claim to be "rebels".

 

6. Thier work under the guise of "social welfare" work has helpd them get supporters in the same way the christians have converted poor sikhs by giving them money and helping them out. Recently we have seen this "singhsabh1699" or "uklondon" whatever encouraging these same ideals under the guise of Panthic bhala.

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Another feather in their cap was the joining of that dog darshan who started his own panth. sucha high profile figure swayed those (ignorant) people who thought that such someone being of such a high stature in the Panth could not be wrong.

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On 16/04/2017 at 11:33 AM, jkvlondon said:

sikh will never be missionaries  as missionaries believe they get brownie points for bringing people into christianity by breaking them from their root faith , they use bribes of food, scholarships , jobs etc , then once in they abandon the poor ... 

SIkhs will however be the bringers of peace, justice and food for all irrespective of their faiths . Missionary college, Ludhiana is a govt agent mill  the years where these scum have been prominent is since the start of the Anandpur resolution lehar. The older objecters were individuals manmatti  and ignorant

This is why Sikhs will get trampled over and vanish in pages of history if we have that mindset. The abrahmic cults (christianity, islamic) have been forcing Sikhs not to become missionaries because they know how powerful Sikhi is to liberate people from their brainwashed condition.

Our Guru's spread sikhi to far off nations inspiring non-sikhs to embrace the Guru shabad and Sikhi. Nowadays we have brainwashed cucked leftist marxist liberal sikhs  telling us don't convert non-sikhs to Sikhi because essentially we need to be enslaved and dominated by other communities as our Sikh religion is not worth converting to. This is what message they are sending out naively.

Each individual Sikh must become missionary (Not missionary for nonsense of Christianity but missionary for Sikhi) because Guru's taught as to practice and spread the religion to others which is what basically missionary means at its most fundamental level.

 

Edited by genie
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19 minutes ago, genie said:

This is why Sikhs will get trampled over and vanish in pages of history if we have that mindset. The abrahmic cults (christianity, islamic) have been forcing Sikhs not to become missionaries because they know how powerful Sikhi is to liberate people from their brainwashed condition.

Our Guru's spread sikhi to far off nations inspiring non-sikhs to embrace the Guru shabad and Sikhi. Nowadays we have brainwashed cucked leftist marxist liberal sikhs  telling us don't convert non-sikhs to Sikhi because essentially we need to be enslaved and dominated by other communities as our Sikh religion is not worth converting to. This is what message they are sending out naively.

Each individual Sikh must become missionary (Not missionary for nonsense of Christianity but missionary for Sikhi) because Guru's taught as to practice and spread the religion to others which is what basically missionary means at its most fundamental level.

 

let's agree to use the correct word Parchaarik ...which is a positive and apt word , showing people a better way , a clearer path to happiness and peace of mind . I do not know anyone who has had a negative reaction to learning about sikhi ... in fact they come away with a sense of respect and friendship at the very least . BUT AT THE SAME TIME we need to make EVERY gurdwara a sikh learning centre for the host language speakers at the very least and as many others as possible . Sikhs should be learning multilple languages this is suggested by our Guru Sahiban too ... 

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4 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

let's agree to use the correct word Parchaarik ...which is a positive and apt word , showing people a better way , a clearer path to happiness and peace of mind . I do not know anyone who has had a negative reaction to learning about sikhi ... in fact they come away with a sense of respect and friendship at the very least . BUT AT THE SAME TIME we need to make EVERY gurdwara a sikh learning centre for the host language speakers at the very least and as many others as possible . Sikhs should be learning multilple languages this is suggested by our Guru Sahiban too ... 

Parchaarik means missionary there's no difference really ones in punjabi other in english.

The uneducated low IQ indians and illiterate Sikhs in punjab are going around defaming the term missionary in an attempt to be politically correct and not to show intolerance to christians and muslim missionaries so they generalise their attack on the word "missionary" rather than attacking the individual anti-sikh abrahmic and personality cult missionaries

We need proudly say we are Sikh missionaries. I have personally made it my mission to convert non-sikhs from their backward and filth ideologies. I have made social media posts, help share inspirational sikh convert videos and many other forms of propaganda to help people embrace Sikhi from islam and Christianity mostly.

I'm going to be focusing hindu extremists next I want to target the hindu extremists hard where it hurts and convert their ignorant monkey and cow worshipping people from their filthy evil anti-sikh and anti-khalistan ideologies.

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7 hours ago, chatanga said:

 

There are some reasons why these miss naris have got some popularity recently.

The majority of the Panth hold these pro-Gurmat views as espoused by Dhadrianwale, Panthpreet, Dhunda, Dhapali, Shaheed Bhai Bhupinder Singh etc. The majority of the Panth does not want to see Bachittar Natak placed parallel alongside Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj at Gurdwara's as was done so until the liberation of Gurdwara's from the control of Hindu Mahants. The majority of the Panth rejects the assertion that our Guru Sahibaan were Hindu Kings from only two clans in their alleged previous lives.

 

Quote

First time I heard of Dhunda was when he made a reply to kamlee kalesh

I thought this dhunda is really good, very knowledgeable and very panthic.

3. The miss naris have diluted some of the bedrock aspects of Gurmat, primarily naam simran.

Not at all - the pro-Sikhi pro-SGGS Khalsa Panth alliance of pro-Gurmat parcharaks like Dhadrianwale and Panthpreet that you term as missionaries emphasise that practical actions for the benefit of humanity are the most true form of naam simran as opposed to sitting down and counting how many times one can repeat Vaheguru according to a reward system allocated by the Dera Mukhi depending on the numbers of times of repetition without contemplation and without any accompanying action to uplift those less fortunate.

kali afghani came out with his no need to keep kes etc.

Please give one example of where Dhadrianwale, Panthpreet, Dhunda, Dhapali, Shaheed Bhai Bhupinder Singh (murdered by DDT) have stated that the Khalsa Panth should not keep kes. Kala Afghana is one man who has nothing to do with centuries old pro-Gurmat pro-Sikh pro-SGGS views held by the Khalsa Panth all the way since 1699.

4. The rise of superstiition and deras in panjab has also helpled the miss naris, as they falsely claim that every dera or baba is fake and taking people away from Sikhi to own their paths. This may be true of ram rahim and ashutosh but definitely not true of those deras like nanaksar, taksals and dal panths.

Let's examine your claims about Nanaksar, Taksal and the Dals:

Nanaksar Sidhu fraud case is well highlighted and well known:

http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=24245

Damdami Taksal openly boast of having murdered Shaheed Bhai Bhupinder Singh and ably assisted Congress in the 1980 elections which brought Indira Gandhi to power - with disastrous results for the Qaum.

https://www.sikh24.com/2016/06/02/baba-dhummas-uk-supporters-give-threat-more-chabeels-to-come/#.WPwMFvkrJkg

Santa Dal received a lot of money from Indira re the Akal Takht 

but now have become firmly anti-dera of any kind.

Sikhi by default is a concept of Unity and anti-Derawaad.

The more that reject the corruption of most Dera's the better 

5. The miss nari resistance to Badal Dal and SGPC because of both institutions being corrupt or heavily politicised has gone down well with those are who are anti badal and are looking for those who can claim to be "rebels".

Contrast that to Badal's lackeys such as your very own Damdami Taksal leader Dhumma. He holds ladoos for his master Badal. Yet orders the murder of Shaheed Bhai Bhupinder Singh.

Image result for dhumma ladoos badal

Image result for badal dhumma

6. Thier work under the guise of "social welfare" work has helpd them get supporters.

Sikhi is all about social welfare. What we do as Sikhs to uplift those within the Qaum and others who are suffering is 99% of what Sikhi is about. The pro-Gurmat camp are at the forefront of attacking the silent Genocide via female infanticide, drugs, cancer, biraderi apartheid, poverty, illiteracy and long may that continue.

 

Recently we have seen this http://sikhsangat.com/index.php?/profile/45729-singhsabha1699/ or http://sikhsangat.com/index.php?/profile/31362-uklondonsikh/ whatever encouraging these same ideals under the guise of Panthic bhala.

You misunderstand bir'ay. To each his own thing. If Damdami Taksal want to kill fellow Sikhs and propagate that ideology that's your choice. If you want to organise flight tours to Pakistan so that the Pakistani descendents responsible for the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs can earn hard earned money off Sikhs while our Qaum are dying from lack of money to fight infanticide, drugs, poverty, cancer etc then that's fine.

Damdami Taksal can organise coach trips for Sri Chand Puja at river Ganges or up to Sri Hemkhunt Sahib to keep RSS shopkeepers on the route happy, the Santa Dal Niddar types can get high on bhang and alcohol and apply tilaks.

Image result for sri chand damdami taksal

 

But all that's being requested is ... Just let the ordinary pro-Gurmat majority of Sangat with the likes of Panthpreet and Dhadrianwale et al who believe in ikko Guru Maneyo Granth to try focus on the silent Genocide affecting our Qaum re drugs, infanticide, cancer, declining fertility, poverty, biraderi apartheid without killing them as fellow Sikhs.

 

 

 

Edited by SinghSabha1699
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10 minutes ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

The majority of the Panth hold these pro-Gurmat views as espoused by Dhadrianwale, Panthpreet, Dhunda, Dhapali, Shaheed Bhai Bhupinder Singh etc. The majority of the Panth does not want to see Bachittar Natak placed parallel alongside Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. The majority of the Panth rejects the assertion that our Guru Sahibaan were Hindu Kings from two clans in their alleged previous lives.

 

Admin this troll is back.  He has started slandering Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji.  

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38 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

Admin this troll is back.  He has started slandering Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji.  

Please no banning. As anyone can verify, I accept the Dasam Granth Sahib as Guru Gobind Singh ji's work, but the arguments against it do not require banning. Many, many Sikhs have been deluded into confusion regarding the Tenth Masters bani, and they have many questions, which can easily be answered.

For one, I'd like the admins not to ban @SinghSabha1699. Just refute what he says if you don't agree with him.

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Thanks a lot BhForce Bhai Sahib.

Sikhs should be able to "agree to disagree" respectfully.

Our fundamental Unity should never be compromised over minor theological disagreements in the bigger scheme of things when all of us unitedly need to join forces to tackle the silent Genocide of female infanticide, drugs, cancer, biraderi apartheid, illiteracy and poverty afflicting our Panth.

If we are unable and too weak to theologically address concerns a fellow Sikh with a different interpretation or jatha affiliation might hold then how will we have the intellectual ability to politely rebutt the arguments from Christians, Muslims and Hindu's.

Those that argue for Dhadrianwale, Panthpreet, Dhunda, Shaheed Bhai Bhupinder Singh to be killed for holding pro-Gurmat views need to look at the bigger picture of where Sikhs are currently standing at globally today.

We don't have the global Khalsa Fauj that Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj envisaged and indeed if the proliferation of Hindutva-funded Balmiki and Dera Ballan Mandirs is not tackled (with pyaar and re-integration) then we could be a minority in little east Punjab by as early as the 2021 census.

Edited by SinghSabha1699
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Guest Jacfsing2
2 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

Akalifauj are you flat out denying that the Hindu Kings genealogy is not stated in Bachittar Natak?

Bachittar Natak (Chapter 4)

Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji

ਰਿਖੰ ਭੇਸ ਕੀਯੰ ॥ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਾਜ ਦੀਯੰ ॥੫॥
रिखं भेस कीयं ॥ तिसै राज दीयं ॥५॥
He put on the garb of a sage (rishi) and gave his kingdom to the reciter (Amrit Rai)5.

ਰਹੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਲੋਗੰ ॥ ਤਜੇ ਸਰਬ ਸੋਗੰ ॥
रहे होरि लोगं ॥ तजे सरब सोगं ॥
The people tried to tell the king not to do so, but, he had abandoned all sorrows.

ਧਨੰ ਧਾਮ ਤਿਆਗੇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭੰ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਾਗੇ ॥੬॥
धनं धाम तिआगे ॥ प्रभं प्रेम पागे ॥६॥
And leaving his wealth and property, absorbed himself in divine love.6.

ਅੜਿਲ ॥
अड़िल ॥
ARIL

ਬੇਦੀ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਹ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ ਦੇਤ ਭਯੋ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਹੀਐ ਹੁਲਸਾਇ ਕੈ ॥
बेदी भए प्रसंन राज कह पाइ कै ॥ देत भयो बरदान हीऐ हुलसाइ कै ॥
Having been bestowed the kingdom, the Bedis were very much pleased. With happy heart, he predicted this boon:

ਜਬ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਮ ਆਨ ਕਹਾਇਹੈਂ ॥ ਹੋ ਜਗਤ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦ ਪਾਇਹੈਂ ॥੭॥
जब नानक कलि मै हम आन कहाइहैं ॥ हो जगत पूज करि तोहि परम पद पाइहैं ॥७॥
When in the Iron age, I shall be called Nanak, you will attain the Supreme State and be worshipped by the world."7.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
दोहरा ॥
DOHRA

ਲਵੀ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਨਿ ਗਏ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜ ॥
लवी राज दे बनि गए बेदीअन कीनो राज ॥
The descendants of Lava, after handing over the kingdom, went to the forest, and the Bedis (descendants of Kusha) began to rule.

ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੋਗੀਯੰ ਭੂਅ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਸਮਾਜ ॥੮॥
भांति भांति तिनि भोगीयं भूअ का सकल समाज ॥८॥
They enjoyed all comforts of the earth in various ways.8.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥
चौपई ॥
CHAUPAI

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਅ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਬੋ ਤੁਮ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਚਤੁਰ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਿ ਭੂਅ ਕੋ ਦੀਆ ॥
त्रितीअ बेद सुनबो तुम कीआ ॥ चतुर बेद सुनि भूअ को दीआ ॥
O Sodhi king! You have listened to the recitation of three Vedas, and while listening to the fourth, you gave away your kingdom.

ਤੀਨ ਜਨਮ ਹਮਹੂੰ ਜਬ ਧਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਚਉਥੇ ਜਨਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰਿਹੈਂ ॥੯॥
तीन जनम हमहूं जब धरिहैं ॥ चउथे जनम गुरू तुहि करिहैं ॥९॥
When I shall have taken three births, you will be made the Guru in he fourth birth."9.

ਉਤ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਾਨਨਿਹ ਸਿਧਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਤ ਇਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਯੋ ॥
उत राजा काननिह सिधायो ॥ इत इन राज करत सुख पायो ॥
That (Sodhi) king left for the forest, and this (Bedi) king absorbed himself in royal pleasures.

ਕਹਾ ਲਗੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਊਂ ॥੧੦॥
कहा लगे करि कथा सुनाऊं ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अधिक डराऊं ॥१०॥
To what extent, I should narrate the story? It is feared that this book will become voluminous.10.

I don't translate this as a Hindu King genealogy, but rather talking about the physical ancestor of the Guru: (who is Ramchandar), not that it means anything other than ancestory. The light of Vaheguru revealed himself in the form body of a Bedi, (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji), and in his 4th form and lasting till 10th form he was a Sodhi. Also when Guru Sahib refers to "Bedi Nanak", he's refering to himself and the Gur-Gaddi, (just how read those lines, if someone more educated than me wishes I'd be willing to hear any other views).

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1 hour ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

 

Don't feed the troll.  Ask poster jonny101 of this troll if you don't believe me.  He's got an agenda and that is to further slander Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji.  When he first came here, many tried educating him but he made up his mind before he came to this site.  He's on a mission to spread his hatred. 

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34 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I don't translate this as a Hindu King genealogy, but rather talking about the physical ancestor of the Guru: (who is Ramchandar), not that it means anything other than ancestory. The light of Vaheguru revealed himself in the form body of a Bedi, (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji), and in his 4th form and lasting till 10th form he was a Sodhi. Also when Guru Sahib refers to "Bedi Nanak", he's refering to himself and the Gur-Gaddi, (just how read those lines, if someone more educated than me wishes I'd be willing to hear any other views).

Brother JacfSingh2 Ji, remember that Hindutva and RSS forces are keen to push this genealogy of Dasam Pita as supposedly being a descendent of the Hindu God-King Ram Chander. However, in relation to what is stated in Bachittar Natak below it is not related to Ram Chander but the insinuation that GurGaddi was not chosen upon the basis of bibek buddhi and kamai between 1469-1708 but instead was divided up akin to a business deal in previous lives by a bunch of Hindu Kings enthralled by the Vedas.

Bachittar Natak (Chapter 4)

Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji

ਰਿਖੰ ਭੇਸ ਕੀਯੰ ॥ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਾਜ ਦੀਯੰ ॥੫॥
रिखं भेस कीयं ॥ तिसै राज दीयं ॥५॥
He put on the garb of a sage (rishi) and gave his kingdom to the reciter (Amrit Rai)5.

ਰਹੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਲੋਗੰ ॥ ਤਜੇ ਸਰਬ ਸੋਗੰ ॥
रहे होरि लोगं ॥ तजे सरब सोगं ॥
The people tried to tell the king not to do so, but, he had abandoned all sorrows.

ਧਨੰ ਧਾਮ ਤਿਆਗੇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭੰ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਾਗੇ ॥੬॥
धनं धाम तिआगे ॥ प्रभं प्रेम पागे ॥६॥
And leaving his wealth and property, absorbed himself in divine love.6.

ਅੜਿਲ ॥
अड़िल ॥
ARIL

ਬੇਦੀ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਹ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ ਦੇਤ ਭਯੋ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਹੀਐ ਹੁਲਸਾਇ ਕੈ ॥
बेदी भए प्रसंन राज कह पाइ कै ॥ देत भयो बरदान हीऐ हुलसाइ कै ॥
Having been bestowed the kingdom, the Bedis were very much pleased. With happy heart, he predicted this boon:

ਜਬ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਮ ਆਨ ਕਹਾਇਹੈਂ ॥ ਹੋ ਜਗਤ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦ ਪਾਇਹੈਂ ॥੭॥
जब नानक कलि मै हम आन कहाइहैं ॥ हो जगत पूज करि तोहि परम पद पाइहैं ॥७॥
When in the Iron age, I shall be called Nanak, you will attain the Supreme State and be worshipped by the world."7.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
दोहरा ॥
DOHRA

ਲਵੀ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਨਿ ਗਏ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜ ॥
लवी राज दे बनि गए बेदीअन कीनो राज ॥
The descendants of Lava, after handing over the kingdom, went to the forest, and the Bedis (descendants of Kusha) began to rule.

ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੋਗੀਯੰ ਭੂਅ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਸਮਾਜ ॥੮॥
भांति भांति तिनि भोगीयं भूअ का सकल समाज ॥८॥
They enjoyed all comforts of the earth in various ways.8.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥
चौपई ॥
CHAUPAI

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਅ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਬੋ ਤੁਮ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਚਤੁਰ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਿ ਭੂਅ ਕੋ ਦੀਆ ॥
त्रितीअ बेद सुनबो तुम कीआ ॥ चतुर बेद सुनि भूअ को दीआ ॥
O Sodhi king! You have listened to the recitation of three Vedas, and while listening to the fourth, you gave away your kingdom.

ਤੀਨ ਜਨਮ ਹਮਹੂੰ ਜਬ ਧਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਚਉਥੇ ਜਨਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰਿਹੈਂ ॥੯॥
तीन जनम हमहूं जब धरिहैं ॥ चउथे जनम गुरू तुहि करिहैं ॥९॥
When I shall have taken three births, you will be made the Guru in he fourth birth."9.

ਉਤ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਾਨਨਿਹ ਸਿਧਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਤ ਇਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਯੋ ॥
उत राजा काननिह सिधायो ॥ इत इन राज करत सुख पायो ॥
That (Sodhi) king left for the forest, and this (Bedi) king absorbed himself in royal pleasures.

ਕਹਾ ਲਗੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਊਂ ॥੧੦॥
कहा लगे करि कथा सुनाऊं ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अधिक डराऊं ॥१०॥
To what extent, I should narrate the story? It is feared that this book will become voluminous.10.

Dr.  Baldev Singh from PA in his commentary states:

The next three chapters are about the ancestors of Guru Nanak Dev and Guru Gobind Singh. Both Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh are described as descendents of Sri Ram Chander, the mythical god who was a king in the mythical age of Treta.

His sons, Lav and Kush founded the City of Lahore and Kasur in Punjab, respectively, and ruled over there for a very long time.  Later on there was a war between their descendents. It was a long war. Shiv Ji with his army of ghosts and goblins witnessed the battle scenes.

The Lavis, who were then called Sodhis, defeated their rivals, the Kushis, who then ran away to Kashi. The Kushis were called Bedis after they learned to recite the four Vedas (sacred Hindu scriptures). 

Later on a Sodhi king sent an emissary to them with the message, “Let us forget the past; come back to Panjab.”  The Bedis came back and recited the Vedas to the Sodhi king.  All his sins were washed away after listening to the Vedas. 

The Sodhi king was so much pleased that as an act of gratitude he donated his kingdom to the Bedis.  This made the Bedi clan so happy that in return the head of the Bedi clan granted a boon to the Sodhi ex-king. “O pious one, when I will take birth in the age of Kaljug, I will make you worthy of world-wide veneration.  As you first listened to the first three Vedas and then donated your kingdom while listening to the fourth Veda, so I will transfer the Guruship to you after I have become Guru three times, consecutively.”

This absurd story is an affront to commonsense. 

The writer implies that Guru Nanak (Bedi) and the six Gurus (Sodhi), Ram Das to Gobind Singh became Gurus because their ancestors were very pious Hindus, who studied Vedas or were very generous to those who recited Vedas to them.  In other words, it was due to the blessing earned through the study of Vedas or the donation of kingdom to the reciter of Vedas, which was responsible for the reward of Guruship. 

On the contrary, Guru Angad Dev and Guru Amar Das acquired Guruship after they gave up their Hindu faith's study of the Vedas and other Hindu scriptures. No wonder, the writer does not mention their lineage or how did they earn the Guruship?

The writer does not know that belief in caste and lineage contradicts Guru Gobind Singh’s own edict of Kul Nash (freedom from lineage).  Besides, the first three Gurus did not come from a Bedi family, only Guru Nanak was born into a Bedi family, Gurus Angad Dev and Amardas were born in Trehan and Bhala clans respectively.

The writer also implies that Guru Angad Dev was the reincarnation of Guru Nanak and Guru Amardas was the reincarnation of Guru Angad Dev, but the first three Gurus were contemporaries and reincarnation takes place after the death of a person.

Edited by SinghSabha1699
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Guest Jacfsing2
7 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

Brother JacfSingh2 Ji, remember that Hindutva and RSS forces are keen to push this genealogy of Dasam Pita as supposedly being a descendent of the Hindu God-King Ram Chander. However, in relation to what is stated in Bachittar Natak below it is not related to Ram Chander but the insinuation that GurGaddi was not chosen upon the basis of bibek buddhi and kamai between 1469-1708 but instead was divided up akin to a business deal in previous lives by a bunch of Hindu Kings enthralled by the Vedas.

Bachittar Natak (Chapter 4)

Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji

ਰਿਖੰ ਭੇਸ ਕੀਯੰ ॥ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਾਜ ਦੀਯੰ ॥੫॥
रिखं भेस कीयं ॥ तिसै राज दीयं ॥५॥
He put on the garb of a sage (rishi) and gave his kingdom to the reciter (Amrit Rai)5.

ਰਹੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਲੋਗੰ ॥ ਤਜੇ ਸਰਬ ਸੋਗੰ ॥
रहे होरि लोगं ॥ तजे सरब सोगं ॥
The people tried to tell the king not to do so, but, he had abandoned all sorrows.

ਧਨੰ ਧਾਮ ਤਿਆਗੇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭੰ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਾਗੇ ॥੬॥
धनं धाम तिआगे ॥ प्रभं प्रेम पागे ॥६॥
And leaving his wealth and property, absorbed himself in divine love.6.

ਅੜਿਲ ॥
अड़िल ॥
ARIL

ਬੇਦੀ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਹ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ ਦੇਤ ਭਯੋ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਹੀਐ ਹੁਲਸਾਇ ਕੈ ॥
बेदी भए प्रसंन राज कह पाइ कै ॥ देत भयो बरदान हीऐ हुलसाइ कै ॥
Having been bestowed the kingdom, the Bedis were very much pleased. With happy heart, he predicted this boon:

ਜਬ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਮ ਆਨ ਕਹਾਇਹੈਂ ॥ ਹੋ ਜਗਤ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦ ਪਾਇਹੈਂ ॥੭॥
जब नानक कलि मै हम आन कहाइहैं ॥ हो जगत पूज करि तोहि परम पद पाइहैं ॥७॥
When in the Iron age, I shall be called Nanak, you will attain the Supreme State and be worshipped by the world."7.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
दोहरा ॥
DOHRA

ਲਵੀ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਨਿ ਗਏ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜ ॥
लवी राज दे बनि गए बेदीअन कीनो राज ॥
The descendants of Lava, after handing over the kingdom, went to the forest, and the Bedis (descendants of Kusha) began to rule.

ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੋਗੀਯੰ ਭੂਅ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਸਮਾਜ ॥੮॥
भांति भांति तिनि भोगीयं भूअ का सकल समाज ॥८॥
They enjoyed all comforts of the earth in various ways.8.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥
चौपई ॥
CHAUPAI

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਅ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਬੋ ਤੁਮ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਚਤੁਰ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਿ ਭੂਅ ਕੋ ਦੀਆ ॥
त्रितीअ बेद सुनबो तुम कीआ ॥ चतुर बेद सुनि भूअ को दीआ ॥
O Sodhi king! You have listened to the recitation of three Vedas, and while listening to the fourth, you gave away your kingdom.

ਤੀਨ ਜਨਮ ਹਮਹੂੰ ਜਬ ਧਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਚਉਥੇ ਜਨਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰਿਹੈਂ ॥੯॥
तीन जनम हमहूं जब धरिहैं ॥ चउथे जनम गुरू तुहि करिहैं ॥९॥
When I shall have taken three births, you will be made the Guru in he fourth birth."9.

ਉਤ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਾਨਨਿਹ ਸਿਧਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਤ ਇਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਯੋ ॥
उत राजा काननिह सिधायो ॥ इत इन राज करत सुख पायो ॥
That (Sodhi) king left for the forest, and this (Bedi) king absorbed himself in royal pleasures.

ਕਹਾ ਲਗੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਊਂ ॥੧੦॥
कहा लगे करि कथा सुनाऊं ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अधिक डराऊं ॥१०॥
To what extent, I should narrate the story? It is feared that this book will become voluminous.10.

Dr.  Baldev Singh from PA in his commentary states:

The next three chapters are about the ancestors of Guru Nanak Dev and Guru Gobind Singh. Both Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh are described as descendents of Sri Ram Chander, the mythical god who was a king in the mythical age of Treta.

His sons, Lav and Kush founded the City of Lahore and Kasur in Punjab, respectively, and ruled over there for a very long time.  Later on there was a war between their descendents. It was a long war. Shiv Ji with his army of ghosts and goblins witnessed the battle scenes.

The Lavis, who were then called Sodhis, defeated their rivals, the Kushis, who then ran away to Kashi. The Kushis were called Bedis after they learned to recite the four Vedas (sacred Hindu scriptures). 

Later on a Sodhi king sent an emissary to them with the message, “Let us forget the past; come back to Panjab.”  The Bedis came back and recited the Vedas to the Sodhi king.  All his sins were washed away after listening to the Vedas. 

The Sodhi king was so much pleased that as an act of gratitude he donated his kingdom to the Bedis.  This made the Bedi clan so happy that in return the head of the Bedi clan granted a boon to the Sodhi ex-king. “O pious one, when I will take birth in the age of Kaljug, I will make you worthy of world-wide veneration.  As you first listened to the first three Vedas and then donated your kingdom while listening to the fourth Veda, so I will transfer the Guruship to you after I have become Guru three times, consecutively.”

This absurd story is an affront to commonsense. 

The writer implies that Guru Nanak (Bedi) and the six Gurus (Sodhi), Ram Das to Gobind Singh became Gurus because their ancestors were very pious Hindus, who studied Vedas or were very generous to those who recited Vedas to them.  In other words, it was due to the blessing earned through the study of Vedas or the donation of kingdom to the reciter of Vedas, which was responsible for the reward of Guruship. 

On the contrary, Guru Angad Dev and Guru Amar Das acquired Guruship after they gave up their Hindu faith's study of the Vedas and other Hindu scriptures. No wonder, the writer does not mention their lineage or how did they earn the Guruship?

The writer does not know that belief in caste and lineage contradicts Guru Gobind Singh’s own edict of Kul Nash (freedom from lineage).  Besides, the first three Gurus did not come from a Bedi family, only Guru Nanak was born into a Bedi family, Gurus Angad Dev and Amardas were born in Trehan and Bhala clans respectively.

The writer also implies that Guru Angad Dev was the reincarnation of Guru Nanak and Guru Amardas was the reincarnation of Guru Angad Dev, but the first three Gurus were contemporaries and reincarnation takes place after the death of a person.

Before we actually continue any further and me giving my view on this: do you believe in Dasam Granth?

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