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How Missionary Jatha Got Influence?


Guest Jacfsing2
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17 hours ago, genie said:

I am even surprised by some things basics of sikhi has been peddling which I disagree on a fundamental level but i would rather give my own interpretation/understanding of how I see it not by slandering or violently attacking basics of sikhi and its people but just giving my view of what Guru Ji is saying. Eg Guru Nanak is/was not God .... I gave my evidence in other thread..... and Guru ji didn't perform charan di phul with his feet for baptism (which is unhygienic and would put people off). The verses in gurbani are meant to be taken as metaphors not literally.

Let's put this guys IQ to the test of his logic.  According to this poster Charan pahul did not happen because people would be put off by drinking Amrit from the feet of the Guru as its not hygienic.  Lets apply the same reasoning to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji giving Amrit to Punj pyare.  Once the Amrit is prepared people come up one at a time and are given Amrit by the punj pyare hands.  If all of Amrit has not been consumed by the new Sikhs.  Then the Amrit is passed around until all of it is consumed.  This involves every Sikh to put their lips to the bhatte and take a sip from the same bhatte and pass it on to the next Sikh.  According to science sharing drinks/saliva is NOT hygienic.  By sharing drinks a person can get strep throat, hep B, mumps, common cold, herpes, mono, etc.  Through saliva transfer of these viruses and germs can be passed on to the person sharing the drink with you.  In an Amrit sanskar sometimes there are 100s of people taking Amrit at once. According to Mr. IQ this is also not hygienic. Poster Mahakaal is no longer the champions of stupidity.  Poster genie, poster Mahakaal gladly presents you with the Stupidity title belt. 200 years from now poster genie's great grandchildren would apply his logic and say Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji didn't give Amrit through Punj Pyare to people because it's not hygienic.  It wasn't literal, it was meant as a metaphor.  This poster must have been enrolled into Trump University.

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2 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

According to this poster Charan pahul did not happen because people would be put off by drinking Amrit from the feet of the Guru as its not hygienic.  Lets apply the same reasoning to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji giving Amrit to Punj pyare.  Once the Amrit is prepared people come up one at a time and are given Amrit by the punj pyare hands.

Problem with your argument is that I didn't make the reference to khalsa initiation khande di pahul ceremony for a reason as its not taken from SGGS Ji,  it is you making that comparison. I specifically made the argument for charan di pahul ceremony because it was allegedly from SGGS Ji that such idea was dreamed up by people wrong interpretation of gurbani according to my understanding. Many people have questioned if there was such a baptism ceremony of Sikhs prior to Dashmesh pitta's Khande di pahul ceremony. According to what I have read and understood there wasn't the so called charan di pahul.

If you have read SGGS Ji you would know yourself vast majority is written in poetry and philosophical sense. When verses are mentioned about drinking guru's feet water it doesnt mean literally drinking it. It is ment to be taken in poetic sense.

Literalist's have proved they have low IQ and limited education because they cant understand the concept of metaphors. So they apply everything they read from gurbani as in literal sense like the abrahmic cults do with their quran's and bibles.

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Our own so called Gurdwara committees put these people forward. Darshan Sin is coming to Fresno CA USA next week. To stir up trouble again some well known Gurdwara Fresno (Doctor wala), Selma CA and Caruthers are well known to sponser there trouble makers over at least 15 years. People like Kala Afgana, Ghagga, Bhupinder Sin etc. The termites exist among us.

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6 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I wouldn't go as far as calling it a jatha, certainly not in the traditional sense of the word. Despite some of the recent negative connotations the term jatha has taken on, being in a jatha is still mostly a force for positivity, or at least it should be. I mean, if you view the entirety of the Sikh faith as a tapestry or a quilt, then each jatha can be said to contribute their own unique segment to said tapestry of the Sikh identity, which serves to enrich and strengthen the whole. That's the theory anyway, lol.

As for these so-called missionaries (i don't understand why this word is used in relation to the issue it's describing but I guess it's too late to change it), my theory is that it's a government black op which originated from the Indian state, designed to undermine and weaken the Sikh faith over the course of decades. They gave us the short, sharp shock in the 80's through state-sponsored pogroms against Sikhs. This current phase is ideological subversion; a much slower, barely detectable form of attack that ultimately shares the same desired outcome as the violence against Sikhs during the 80's and 90's. 

The purpose of creating controversy regarding DG bani was to cause fissures in the quom. The appeal of anti-DG sentiment lies in the fact that it's managed to ensnare some well-meaning, high profile individuals - some via Sikh ideological appeal, others through various material inducements - who've unfortunately fallen for the quite convincing lies and half-truths being promoted. Who the actual leaders and organisers are of this movement behind the scenes, and who are those who've been duped into representing it's public face amongst Sikhs is quite simple to recognise. I really think there are some well-intentioned people who, in their desire to do the right thing according to Sikhi as they see it, are susceptible to being drawn into these games.

As for why non-Amritdharis are generally the target demographic for the anti-DG brigade, i believe it's as i mentioned earlier: a plan to denigrate Gursikhi as a whole by equating Dasme Paatshah's bani - and eventually Dasme Paatshah himself - with certain beliefs that supposedly don't seem congruous with the all-encompassing ethos of Sikh philosophy.  The aim is to proliferate the belief that Dasme Paatshah and his bani is equated with certain negative and controversial subjects in Sikh theology, which will then cause Sikhs to assume, "Do i really want to become a Gursikh when the figurehead who created the Khalsa harbours these opinions and ideas?" If people are hesitant to take Amrit, that's the end of Sikh orthodoxy. Everyone eventually becomes secular Punjabis, or Sunday Sikhs at best. No resistance, no problems for India. The python that is Hindu statehood consumes another victim.

Doubt. That's the end objective. Create doubt in the minds of Sikhs. Once we begin to turn our back on Dasme Paatshah, then it really is the end for us. How do you stop the growth of Sikhi? By undermining and gradually destroying the Gursikhi he gave us.

Missionary is a positive term we should create more missionaries to target non-sikh people and bring them into sikhi.

As for Indian Gov and the hindutva powers at play trying to split the Sikhs up over controversial issues have been with us for decades/years possibly centuries. The DG and Anti-DM crowds has been around for years. People are swayed by arguments and evidence not by violence and shutting down free speech and right to bring up controversial subjects. I think there needs to be decorum, where such controversial subjects are brought up they are debated in a respectful manor so that people on the opposition side are not made to feel they or what they hold as bani is disrespected.

That's why its always best to organise conferences where things can be discussed and understood between all the scholars, historians, professors so that a consensus can be reached instead of outsider powers dictating to us covertly via their paid agents what we should learn and teach our people.

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On 4/13/2017 at 11:53 AM, Jacfsing2 said:

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! How exactly did the Missionary Jatha get it's influence especially among the majority of those who aren't Amritdhari? Is there a reason why true Gurmat is being attacked by our own people? Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

They been creeping in various small gurdwaras in punjab. They been holding small groups of forum, gathering and camps whether under direct name of theirs or names such as "Guru Gobind Singh Study Circle" etc etc. They target the active folks who are hungry to learn more about sikh religion. They started this trend in 90's. 

example - in chandigarh, they have sec 34 gurudwara which acts as missionaries base and like of katha guy Amrik Singh Chandigarh is from such area. They are all over punjab and stole our precious gems while our kaum care takers were busy fighting, building and looting gurdwaras (sgpc).

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On 14/04/2017 at 8:24 PM, genie said:

Missionary is a positive term we should create more missionaries to target non-sikh people and bring them into sikhi.

As for Indian Gov and the hindutva powers at play trying to split the Sikhs up over controversial issues have been with us for decades/years possibly centuries. The DG and Anti-DM crowds has been around for years. People are swayed by arguments and evidence not by violence and shutting down free speech and right to bring up controversial subjects. I think there needs to be decorum, where such controversial subjects are brought up they are debated in a respectful manor so that people on the opposition side are not made to feel they or what they hold as bani is disrespected.

That's why its always best to organise conferences where things can be discussed and understood between all the scholars, historians, professors so that a consensus can be reached instead of outsider powers dictating to us covertly via their paid agents what we should learn and teach our people.

sikh will never be missionaries  as missionaries believe they get brownie points for bringing people into christianity by breaking them from their root faith , they use bribes of food, scholarships , jobs etc , then once in they abandon the poor ... 

SIkhs will however be the bringers of peace, justice and food for all irrespective of their faiths . Missionary college, Ludhiana is a govt agent mill  the years where these scum have been prominent is since the start of the Anandpur resolution lehar. The older objecters were individuals manmatti  and ignorant

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On 13/04/2017 at 9:19 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

Missionary as in "Professors", and "Sikh Missionary Colleges". (I know how the other "Missionary" gets influence and it says something about our failures). Darshan Ragi and others are the ones I'm referring to.

 

There are some reasons why these miss naris have got some popularity recently.

 

1.The first is their extensive use of social media, especially facebook and youtube.Their media offensive is relentless and evergrowing, mainly because they are cathing those people who know nothing about Dasam Granth (amonhgst other things) first. They are corrupting minds to such an extent that thsoe people will not want to listen to anything else.

 

2. Their use the garb of being protectors of the SIkh Panth to get poplarity amongst panthic Sikhs. My own example. First time I heard of Dhunda was when he made a reply to kamlee kalesh over the vienna thing. I thought this dhunda is really good, very knowledgeable and very panthic. Even arguing with someone who told me what he was really like. But not having a sheep mentality and liking to do my own research it wasn't long before i realised what exactly he was. 

 

3. The miss naris have diluted some of the bedrock aspects of Gurmat, primarily naam simran. kali afghani came out with his no need to keep kes etc. Amongst the sizeable sikh youth who weren't fond of these anyway they became those in sikhi garb who vindicated others own shortcomings.

 

4. The rise of superstiition and deras in panjab has also helpled the miss naris, as they falsely claim that every dera or baba is fake and taking people away from Sikhi to own their paths. This may be true of ram rahim and ashutosh but definitely not true of those deras like nanaksar, taksals and dal panths. yet they blast every single one under the same bracket. So by brakceting all deras, Sikh and non-sikh alike they are capturing the minds of those Sikhs who have no allegiance or sharda with any Sikh dera but now have become firmly anti-dera of any kind.

 

5. The miss nari resistance to Badal Dal and SGPC because of both institutions being corrupt or heavily politicised has gone down well with those are who are anti badal and are looking for those who can claim to be "rebels".

 

6. Thier work under the guise of "social welfare" work has helpd them get supporters in the same way the christians have converted poor sikhs by giving them money and helping them out. Recently we have seen this "singhsabh1699" or "uklondon" whatever encouraging these same ideals under the guise of Panthic bhala.

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On 16/04/2017 at 11:33 AM, jkvlondon said:

sikh will never be missionaries  as missionaries believe they get brownie points for bringing people into christianity by breaking them from their root faith , they use bribes of food, scholarships , jobs etc , then once in they abandon the poor ... 

SIkhs will however be the bringers of peace, justice and food for all irrespective of their faiths . Missionary college, Ludhiana is a govt agent mill  the years where these scum have been prominent is since the start of the Anandpur resolution lehar. The older objecters were individuals manmatti  and ignorant

This is why Sikhs will get trampled over and vanish in pages of history if we have that mindset. The abrahmic cults (christianity, islamic) have been forcing Sikhs not to become missionaries because they know how powerful Sikhi is to liberate people from their brainwashed condition.

Our Guru's spread sikhi to far off nations inspiring non-sikhs to embrace the Guru shabad and Sikhi. Nowadays we have brainwashed cucked leftist marxist liberal sikhs  telling us don't convert non-sikhs to Sikhi because essentially we need to be enslaved and dominated by other communities as our Sikh religion is not worth converting to. This is what message they are sending out naively.

Each individual Sikh must become missionary (Not missionary for nonsense of Christianity but missionary for Sikhi) because Guru's taught as to practice and spread the religion to others which is what basically missionary means at its most fundamental level.

 

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