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can 5 Women give Amrit di Pahul to anyone ?


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Guest Jacfsing2
9 minutes ago, AjaipalSingh said:

Maaf karo jee, I don't care so much for respect as when I see something I say it regardless of who I may offend etc; personally speaking I have realised in my time that sikhs in general have become soft and butt hurt over small small matters rather than the brave, wise, Guroo's faujan that our forefathers were. Most Sikhs, daas especially, don't deserve respect due to not even being able to follow the hukams that Guroo sahib has given us and the lack of pyaar for our own Guroo jee :(

And how do you know your side is right? If you ask me, old Singhs and Kaurs would still respect each other, now you get people taking off each others Dastars and yanking their Keshas, that we've become a complete joke.

9 minutes ago, AjaipalSingh said:

You could also flip the script with this point jeeo; if you look at it from another angle. Guroo Naanak Dev Jee bought Baba Sri Chand into this world, who proved himself to be far from a gursikh. Does that mean we should have done matha Tekh to him? Because he was Guroo Sahib's own blood and flesh?

An educational institution and some man who happens to be related to the light of Vaheguru are not the same. "In putran ki sees par diye sut chaar, chaar moye to kia hua jeevad kai hazaar" (if I messed-up someone can correct me). But Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Amar Daa Ji himself respected Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji's son and when he kicked him, asked if Bhai Datu was hurt, Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Ram Das Ji also let Sri Chand into him and gave respect.

16 minutes ago, AjaipalSingh said:

The true Sikh realises that there is no difference whatsoever between Gurmukh, Guroo and Akaal Purakh. The Gurmukh may have all of the power and shakti of Akaal purakh, yet they choose to remain inside of guroos hukam. This was the reason for Guroo Arjan Dev jee and Guroo Tegh Bahadur jee bearing all of the pain of their own shaheedian, rather than using karaamaat to save themselves

So is Sant Jarnail Singh Bhinderwale wrong? He's probably a bigger Mahapurukh, is Baba Deep Singh Ji and Bhai Mani Singh also wrong? AKJ and Taksal are not the same and logically speaking Vaheguru is always right, so who's wrong?

19 minutes ago, AjaipalSingh said:

An Amrith Sanchaar shouldn't be planned to finish at a certain time jee; if you have a set time to finish, then you run the risk of having to rush, which may result in parts of explaining rehat maryada missed out etc. An Amrith Sanchaar is still one of every Sikhs 4 Sanskaars, so why would you bother rushing?

Either I'm unlucky or just not very knowledgeable, but every Anand Karaj I have ever been to has been relatively quick. And that's also one of the 4 ceremonies.

20 minutes ago, AjaipalSingh said:

Kes keski is more a matter of opinion jee as there is plenty of evidence supporting both, the more the better right? :) however I do believe that a wearing a dastaar, in public at the very least, should be mandatory for all of us, especially as it's the main part of Sikhi Saroop!

I don't want to argue about Keski requirements, but Keski should be used to protect Kesh, much better than any Chunni can. Sadly, most women today don't even wear that to keep Kesh protected, (even Amritdharis), but I don't think Keski should be required if Taksal or Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Hargobind's Ji's Blessed Akal Takht doesn't require it either.

24 minutes ago, AjaipalSingh said:

Naanak Amrith ek hai dhoojaa Amrith naahi; although Amrith is the same, whether it is made by panj pyaareh doing nitnem baaneea, or forming in the Dasam duaar, or trickling down your throat into the bata of rehat that sits inside of us. However, when physically making Amrith, there is maryada that Guroo sahib has put in place for us to follow; why would Guroo sahib bother making a maryada on how Amrith should have been made if in 2017 we decide not to follow any of it???

There is one way to receive naam in gurmat; and that is for Guroo sahib to show you; hanjee Guroo sahib takes many forms; so Guroo Gobind Singh Jee may give darshan and teach naam jugthee, or Guroo sahib takes form in 5 Gurmukhs (all 5 not 1 or 2 jee) etc

To the best of my knowledge, every Amrit Sanchar across all Jathas tell people the Gurmantar and Mool Mantar, (if it doesn't then I wouldn't know). 

26 minutes ago, AjaipalSingh said:

"Badal's Maryada" still prohibits 4 bujjar kurehat aswell jee; just because something is in another maryada doesn't make it wrong automatically. Try asking Guroo sahib directly, do Ardaas asking if panj pyaareh may only be made up of Singh's; there's your answer in the hukam! Bibiyan have administered Amrith before and there have been many cases in which the abhilakhees in such Amrith Sanchaars have grown up to be beloved Gurmukhs! 

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself made Taksal and Nihangs, none of which promote Kaur Punj Pyare. But what people do in their own small communities, I wouldn't know what's going on, there are hundereds of Sevas women can do, (actually everything except Punj Pyare), just look on YouTube Sant Jarnail Singh Bhinderwale on Women in Sikhi. (I can not link the video).

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1 hour ago, AjaipalSingh said:

Kes keski is more a matter of opinion jee as there is plenty of evidence supporting both, the more the better right? :) however I do believe that a wearing a dastaar, in public at the very least, should be mandatory for all of us, especially as it's the main part of Sikhi Saroop!

this topic of why women cannot be in punj pyare has been discussed.  Every arrogant point you will bring up and have stated has been answered.  This topic took off recently as well and your arrogant points expressed by another did not pass the test of Gurmat.  Now on keski or kes being matter of opinion of which one is kakkar.  This is a complete lie.  Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji made it clear in his Bani Kesh is Kakkar.  There is no mention of keski being kakkar.  This poster is affiliated with the people who rub up on each other during kirtan programs....forward and backwards they rub each other screaming and hoalering male to male.  While rest of the sangat is disgusted. He pretends to be humble but give me couple of more post and watch how the mask falls off.  He will be cracked like a hollow nut in a old brittle man's hand.

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15 hours ago, AjaipalSingh said:

The true Sikh realises that there is no difference whatsoever between Gurmukh, Guroo and Akaal Purakh. The Gurmukh may have all of the power and shakti of Akaal purakh, yet they choose to remain inside of guroos hukam. This was the reason for Guroo Arjan Dev jee and Guroo Tegh Bahadur jee bearing all of the pain of their own shaheedian, rather than using karaamaat to save themselves!

The bold tells us how much you know.  The Gurus don't feel pain, so they don't need to bear anything.  The Hukam is who they are and they are the directors and followers.  You want to talk about Punj Pyare avastha.  One of the UK AKJ Singhs caught in a pornography video doing the deed with two transgenders!!!  Keep bumpin and grindin in Darbar Sahib on kirtan stages as you are howling and hollering....clearly you boys are fine with expressing Kaam for each other in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  This suggests why you guys want women in Punj Pyare......losing members through homosexuality.  Wait a minute here is another story on an AKJ person.  http://sikhissues.blogspot.ca/  Hurry up the rat hole you crawled out of is almost shut.........oooo look your got nowhere to run now.  :rofl:rofl:rofl

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On 2017-5-1 at 4:40 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

True.

It was Sri Mata Jito JI, yes despite Sri Mata Sahib Kaur JI being the mother of the Khalsa it was Sri Mata Jito JI who put the pataase in Khand-Di-Pahul, (the reason the story of Sri Mata Sahib Kaur Ji being the main story is because some non-Taksalis Khalsas wanted to respect their mother, so they made this story, which is respectable as she's our mother, but we shouldn't make false history).

Khalsa was made from the Khoon of the Punj Pyare giving their heads, none were female and every true Sikh will respect that ithias, only 3HO and AKJ really made this a controversy.

None of the Punj Pyare were female, and nor has there been any female guru. That's why. A child can still be Punj Pyare because some of the forms of Guru Sahib were children, but none being female and Guru Khalsa Panth.

 

Despite that, both men and women should take Amrit.

How ridiculous a analysis.. Do you know who was the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th person to take khande da Pahul? 

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On 2017-5-15 at 7:16 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

When Taksal, (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind's own made institution), declines it and Badal's Akal Takht allows female Punj Pyare you get a serious problem. The argument isn't about equality it's about Maryada, and the Gurmat Maryada and all Rehatnamas do not mention 5 Kaurs as Punj Pyare, (if you can post ANY Historical maryada instead of AKJ and 3HO emotional b.s. than I will consider looking at it).

No one said the first panj pyare to take khande da Pahul... But the fact one wasn't doesn't mean they can't... The first khande da Pahul amrit sanchar involved a woman.. So there was female participation.. 

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