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Someone has started a petition for Allowing Sikh Women to Administer Amrit Sanchar


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12 hours ago, mankeerat said:

We must support this petition and women should get their rights because our Sikh religion is the great and foremost, it doesn't believes in caste system, then why there is a discrimination between men and women. Instead, Guru Nanak Dev Ji has given the highest status to the women, this is why, we need to support this petition.

Guru Nanak Dev ji did not give women the highest status.  He made people realize they are human beings.  Learn how to interpret Gurbani before making wild claims in your skinny jeans and really petite and tight underwear.

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As much as I support equal gender rights, I believe there are supportive quotes from Mahapursh in the past who have explained that only men should be Panj Piare. One day in the future, hopefully, we w

Wannabe akali faujs parents;     Now my work here really is done.

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3 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

The bana was introduced before any Sikh was given a shastar.  Your mommy is probably calling you to go drink milk...go run along little boy.

The bana was introduced during the time of 10ve patshah... shasters were introduced during the time of 6ve patshah.... the Akal Sena was the fauj of 6ve patshah. 6ve patshah gave a blessing to Baba Budha Ji that one day the Akal Sena would march under their name.... they became Budha Dal.

A real 'Akali' would know the history of the Akalis.... wannabe akalis like you can only come on forums and give it large.... having the username 'akalifauj' won't stop the fact that you probably get bullied, look like tutti, have a small manhood & are most probably a closet homosexual with latent homosexual desires.

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2 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

The bana was introduced during the time of 10ve patshah... shasters were introduced during the time of 6ve patshah.... the Akal Sena was the fauj of 6ve patshah. 6ve patshah gave a blessing to Baba Budha Ji that one day the Akal Sena would march under their name.... they became Budha Dal.

The Bana has been introduced since Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji time.  I know you nangs wear dhoti.  And no one wants to know your dhoti activities.  Young children visit this site.  Other things were added like shastar over time.

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A real 'Akali' would know the history of the Akalis.... wannabe akalis like you can only come on forums and give it large.... having the username 'akalifauj' won't stop the fact that you probably get bullied, look like tutti, have a small manhood & are most probably a closet homosexual with latent homosexual desires.

Nang it was you who was getting hard over McLeod translations about exclude women from Amrit.  Since an amritdharis can't have sexually relations with a non amritdharis.  This makes sense now.  You could have came out of the closest then.  Nothing wrong with being homosexual.  Now we understand you want amritdharis nangs like you for some slap fest.   And we all know you are the receiver.

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24 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

The Bana has been introduced sense Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji time.  I know you nangs wear dhoti.  And no one wants to know your dhoti activities.  Young children visit this site.  Other things were added like shastar over time.

Nang it was you who was getting hard over McLeod translations about exclude women from Amrit.  Since an amritdharis can't have sexually relations with a non amritdharis.  This makes sense now.  You could have came out of the closest then.  Nothing wrong with being homosexual.  Now we understand you want amritdharis nangs like you for some slap fest.   And we all know you are receiver.

More made up facts by wannabe akali... bana was introduced during 10ve patshahs time.... real akalis know the history of akali bana but I won't be sharing it with a faggot like you. 

You attacked someone on this thread for no reason... bringing his mum into it.... so let's tell everyone about your ancestry....

Your mum raped a gay Muslim donkey (the donkey was Muslim as it belonged to a Muslim family & they had circumcised him). 9 months after your mum raped the gay Muslim donkey she shat you out.... 

Most of your genetics come from your father (the donkey) hence why you bark like a fanatical Muslim & are as thick as a ghada (donkey). The genetics you received from your mother account for your extremely small manhood (she has a small one too) & your man boobs.

Your the offspring of a gay Muslim donkey that was raped by your mother.

My work here is done.... learn how to play nice... 

 

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15 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

More made up facts by wannabe akali... bana was introduced during 10ve patshahs time.... real akalis know the history of akali bana but I won't be sharing it with a faggot like you. 

NAng has nothing to add other than his own life story.  I knew from the beginning you were a bang.

First you said I was a homosexual but your story came out how you only want men to be amritdharis and not women for your sexual needs.  Now you write this elaborate story.  You don't know who I am or my family is.  Yet in detail you have this elaborate story.  This can only mean one thing.  The story is about someone close to you.  Someone really close to you.  You like playing mind games before you tell your life story with other men. Soorry mate, I'm not into your bang slap fest.  Open up to someone 3else.

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You attacked someone on this thread for no reason... bringing his mum into it.... so let's tell everyone about your ancestry....

Your mum raped a gay Muslim donkey (the donkey was Muslim as it belonged to a Muslim family & they had circumcised him). 9 months after your mum raped the gay Muslim donkey she shat you out.... 

Most of your genetics come from your father (the donkey) hence why you bark like a fanatical Muslim but are as thick as a ghada (donkey). The genetics you received from your mother account for your extremely small manhood (she has a small one too) & your man boobs.

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6 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

NAng has nothing to add other than his own life story.  I knew from the beginning you were a bang.

First you said I was a homosexual but your story came out how you only want men to be amritdharis and not women for your sexual needs.  Now you write this elaborate story.  You don't know who I am or my family is.  Yet in detail you have this elaborate story.  This can only mean one thing.  The story is about someone close to you.  Someone really close to you.  You like playing mind games before you tell your life story with other men. Soorry mate, I'm not into your bang slap fest.  Open up to someone 3else.

Great comeback.... son of a gay Muslim donkey father & a gay Muslim donkey raping mother.

Like I said, my work here is done.

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6 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Great comeback.... son of a gay Muslim donkey father & a gay Muslim donkey raping mother.

Like I said, my work here is done.

You feel fulfilled....lol.  

You accomplished a lot today.  Came out of the closest and told us how your parents met.  

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Wow this thread seems to have derailed init? 

You know the Gurus all taught that all humans should be treated equally and it's in Gurbani right? It says one should be judged only by his/ her own actions (something in ones control) and not by what body or gender we happen to have been lucky (or unlucky) enough to be born in (something out of ones control).

Also it should be pointed out that a petition is not necessary as it's already in Rehet Maryada that it can be either. If some of you are so caught up on following exactly the original why stop at gender? What about same eye colour, same height etc? And in that case a woman should always be the only one allowed to add the patashas? But reality is that these same and loudest nay Sayers don't see a problem having a man add them? Anyway either can be done by either as long as they have high avastha and strict Rehet. 

But I posted in other forum as a guest you know that entire city of Lucknow all Gurdwaras have agreed to uphold Rehet Maryada and several Gurdwaras have now had female Panj Pyaras and this was not opposed (loudly anyway) and mostly welcomed. It's a good start! The news was from April. 

https://www.google.co.in/amp/m.timesofindia.com/city/lucknow/gender-bender-women-panj-pyara-at-sadar-gurdwara/amp_articleshow/58231304.cms

 

 

 

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Not a single Amrit Sanchar was done with woman Punj Pyare in Puratan times, if Guru Ji had no problem with then we shouldn't too. Man and Woman AREN'T the same, they are equals but not the same. Woman can give physical birth while a man can't (biology) so Guru Sahib gave men the right to give birth too (Spiritually) hence why it's total equality. Sorry but Man and Woman are not the same, biologically and mentally both are completely different. 

The original Punj were men, no woman stood up. Had a woman stood up then woman would be included in the Punj too. The SGPC rehet is flawed and completely tossed out by all knowledgeable sikhs. The only ones who cling to it are the Sunday Sikhs who find new things to get offended about and can barely grasp the basics of Sikhi let alone the rehets. The same Rehet completely cut Chaupai Sahib and Anand Sahib from itself Nitnems, Reharas Sahib has been cut (excluding loads of Dasam Pita's banis) to name a few things. So if you want to hold it up as the pinnacle of Panthic unity then be my guest.

 

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2 hours ago, JotSinghUK said:

Wow this thread seems to have derailed init? 

You know the Gurus all taught that all humans should be treated equally and it's in Gurbani right? It says one should be judged only by his/ her own actions (something in ones control) and not by what body or gender we happen to have been lucky (or unlucky) enough to be born in (something out of ones control).

Also it should be pointed out that a petition is not necessary as it's already in Rehet Maryada that it can be either. If some of you are so caught up on following exactly the original why stop at gender? What about same eye colour, same height etc? And in that case a woman should always be the only one allowed to add the patashas? But reality is that these same and loudest nay Sayers don't see a problem having a man add them? Anyway either can be done by either as long as they have high avastha and strict Rehet. 

But I posted in other forum as a guest you know that entire city of Lucknow all Gurdwaras have agreed to uphold Rehet Maryada and several Gurdwaras have now had female Panj Pyaras and this was not opposed (loudly anyway) and mostly welcomed. It's a good start! The news was from April. 

https://www.google.co.in/amp/m.timesofindia.com/city/lucknow/gender-bender-women-panj-pyara-at-sadar-gurdwara/amp_articleshow/58231304.cms

 

 

 

Same old argument that has been proven to be wrong.  I asked for an new argument based on Gurmat.  Again, take your time and ask your seniors to help you with it.  

The Khalsa Panth is not a popularity contest.  Yet this how so many of you view it.  Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji never followed the world.  Today the Sunday Sikhs are trying to change sikhi as the world changes.  This is how desperate these guys are to fit in.  Always feeling second class.  Never confident in their skin.  Always trying to show the western world how they are trying to be like them.  They get a tan and these type are trying to cover it up.  Gurbani makes a perso Grounded in Gurmat.  Never scared to be a Sikh.  Never acting a fool to fit in.  Never bending over backwards to please the western world.  

Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji took the world out of darkness.  Darkness took the form of higher and lower class when he came in human form.  Today the world is in darkness but not because of the caste system.  Today darkness has taken the form of liberal extremist.  They have no clue what is Gurmat and they have completely erased the line between right and wrong.  Gurbani is only their in English translations for them to beat their own chest.  There is some sun out but these liberal extremist will due away with it.  Full darkness will fall again but this time because of the liberal extremist.  Again Vaheguru will send his fauj to eliminate the liberal extremist.  It was ego when the caste system was created and its still ego destroying the world because of these liberal extremist.  Let the cycle continue.

Regarding your link.  The Guru says teach, explain, and show the way to Gurmat.  However don't become so nice that the Gurmat bankrupt people start oppressing you.  When this happens there is only one way to defend the saints.  

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4 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Same old argument that has been proven to be wrong.  I asked for an new argument based on Gurmat.  Again, take your time and ask your seniors to help you with it.  

The Khalsa Panth is not a popularity contest.  Yet this how so many of you view it.  Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji never followed the world.  Today the Sunday Sikhs are trying to change sikhi as the world changes.  This is how desperate these guys are to fit in.  Always feeling second class.  Never confident in their skin.  Always trying to show the western world how they are trying to be like them.  They get a tan and these type are trying to cover it up.  Gurbani makes a perso Grounded in Gurmat.  Never scared to be a Sikh.  Never acting a fool to fit in.  Never bending over backwards to please the western world.  

Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji took the world out of darkness.  Darkness took the form of higher and lower class when he came in human form.  Today the world is in darkness but not because of the caste system.  Today darkness has taken the form of liberal extremist.  They have no clue what is Gurmat and they have completely erased the line between right and wrong.  Gurbani is only their in English translations for them to beat their own chest.  There is some sun out but these liberal extremist will due away with it.  Full darkness will fall again but this time because of the liberal extremist.  Again Vaheguru will send his fauj to eliminate the liberal extremist.  It was ego when the caste system was created and its still ego destroying the world because of these liberal extremist.  Let the cycle continue.

Regarding your link.  The Guru says teach, explain, and show the way to Gurmat.  However don't become so nice that the Gurmat bankrupt people start oppressing you.  When this happens there is only one way to defend the saints.  

Liberal extremism is only bad when pandering to everyone to fit in western society (or any group including Hindus, Muslims etc) however women have been given equality by our Gurus so there is no pandering there. If you think so please show me one Gurbani tuk which says women should have a secondary role or lesser place in Sikhi. Because I have never found one. And though not explicit with gender I have found many tuks stating that as Gurmukhs we are to see everyone equally. Though to be fair it does say also that those who can do so are altars indeed and this is a great example. Just because we are stronger physically we think we are superior and should have more privilege over them when Gurbani does not support this. Despite our physical bodies, Gurbani says that we are judged on our actions alone. Therefore a woman of high avastha should be judged on that and not her gender which she had no control over.  

On grand scheme of things, everything is one. There is no duality. Akal Purakh IS everything and everyone. Our separate consciousness is an illusion created by this duality. In fact even our bodies are illusion. The Gurus knew this. If we continue to perpetuate the illusion by privileging some and limiting others on things which are out of their control like their gender which is only for procreation, then we only serve to solidify the illusion caused by duality. If we instead realize that every soul literally is Waheguru then it's not so hard to see how can you limit anyone based on caste colour gender or anything else. You are essentially delving further into duality by telling someone no they can't do something no matter how high their spiritual level is. In reality you are hurting yourself more than them.

A brahamgiani their main realization is seeing past this illusion and seeing all as one. When we surpass duality then we begin to realize the divine in our own self. 

Im not saying anything should be changed, rather I am saying Sikhi always considered all humans equally. What some Sikhs have done or thought (yes even Sants) will be based on what they were taught from whatever samprada they originated. We already have several sampradas disagreeing on several different issues and claiming they were originated directly from Guru Ji so how can this be? The answer is human thought, locked and isolated in this physical reality and separated from the true ONEness of all. The reason I say even Sants is not to cause disrespect at all. A sant is someone who follows exactly religious life and has high knowledge but that knowledge will be based on the path they took to reach that level, which we know there are several different ways. But a Sant is not necessarily a Brahamgiani (they could be) but the two are mutually exclusive. 

In Gurbani there is a tuk which says when one realizes within that HE IS ME and realizes their own self, then what more is there to be done? When someone realizes that he IS me (The divine within) then they realize that everyone else is also that same divine jyot. That includes women.

So no I am not pandering to anyone and I don't have a problem with women doing seva as Panj Pyaras because I try to see past the body and see the light within. I'm trying to see past duality which I think is our whole point of existence. 

Please forgive me sangat Ji if I have said anything wrong. 

 

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2 hours ago, JotSinghUK said:

Liberal extremism is only bad when pandering to everyone to fit in western society (or any group including Hindus, Muslims etc) however women have been given equality by our Gurus so there is no pandering there. If you think so please show me one Gurbani tuk which says women should have a secondary role or lesser place in Sikhi. Because I have never found one. And though not explicit with gender I have found many tuks stating that as Gurmukhs we are to see everyone equally. Though to be fair it does say also that those who can do so are altars indeed and this is a great example. Just because we are stronger physically we think we are superior and should have more privilege over them when Gurbani does not support this. Despite our physical bodies, Gurbani says that we are judged on our actions alone. Therefore a woman of high avastha should be judged on that and not her gender which she had no control over.  

On grand scheme of things, everything is one. There is no duality. Akal Purakh IS everything and everyone. Our separate consciousness is an illusion created by this duality. In fact even our bodies are illusion. The Gurus knew this. If we continue to perpetuate the illusion by privileging some and limiting others on things which are out of their control like their gender which is only for procreation, then we only serve to solidify the illusion caused by duality. If we instead realize that every soul literally is Waheguru then it's not so hard to see how can you limit anyone based on caste colour gender or anything else. You are essentially delving further into duality by telling someone no they can't do something no matter how high their spiritual level is. In reality you are hurting yourself more than them.

A brahamgiani their main realization is seeing past this illusion and seeing all as one. When we surpass duality then we begin to realize the divine in our own self. 

Im not saying anything should be changed, rather I am saying Sikhi always considered all humans equally. What some Sikhs have done or thought (yes even Sants) will be based on what they were taught from whatever samprada they originated. We already have several sampradas disagreeing on several different issues and claiming they were originated directly from Guru Ji so how can this be? The answer is human thought, locked and isolated in this physical reality and separated from the true ONEness of all. The reason I say even Sants is not to cause disrespect at all. A sant is someone who follows exactly religious life and has high knowledge but that knowledge will be based on the path they took to reach that level, which we know there are several different ways. But a Sant is not necessarily a Brahamgiani (they could be) but the two are mutually exclusive. 

In Gurbani there is a tuk which says when one realizes within that HE IS ME and realizes their own self, then what more is there to be done? When someone realizes that he IS me (The divine within) then they realize that everyone else is also that same divine jyot. That includes women.

So no I am not pandering to anyone and I don't have a problem with women doing seva as Panj Pyaras because I try to see past the body and see the light within. I'm trying to see past duality which I think is our whole point of existence. 

Please forgive me sangat Ji if I have said anything wrong. 

 

Can you tell me why all 10 Gurus were men?

Why all 15 Bhagats with Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib are all men?

Why all 5 of the Panj Pyare were men?

You deluded fools seem to think that our rehat comes from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but it doesn't.... SGGS is a spiritual guide for the whole universe.... the khalsa's maryada is something different entirely.

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25 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Can you tell me why all 10 Gurus were men?

Why all 15 Bhagats with Gurbani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib are all men?

Why all 5 of the Panj Pyare were men?

You deluded fools seem to think that our rehat comes from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but it doesn't.... SGGS is a spiritual guide for the whole universe.... the khalsa's maryada is something different entirely.

It doesn't matter that they were in male bodies. The awareness behind every human is not the body or the gender of the body. It's pure jyot genderless. In that cultural time in India you hardly saw women even in public gathering at all (even today you hardly see women at public gatherings). In that time, a female form as Guru would not have been listened to (and possibly not even now as some of you still harbour this same resentment deep inside). It's same question as why the Gurus were all high caste. The message of equality can not come from those in the lower position (at least not without a lot of blood). Slave masters claiming that slavery was wrong meant so much more than slaves claiming the same. It was same for women. In that time women were little more than property, the Gurus in male form claiming all humans were equal meant way more than if a female was Guru claiming the same. As for Panj Pyaras hardly any women being at public gatherings back then how many women do you think were actually present? And what about all the males who did not give their heads they get to ride on coat tails of the first five simply because they have the same genitalia? If physical form is that important to copy then again I ask why not also copy their eye colour, skin colour etc? But I am betting you don't have any issues with a white Singh doing this seva am I right? So why only the gender? I bet you also don't see a problem with males putting the patashas in the Amrit and if everything must be copied as original why does that not bother you when this should always be female then? Why doesn't a Singhni always be present with Panj Pyaras at Nagar kirtans accompanying Guru Granth Sahib Ji? It is because we seem to get all defensive when we feel a lowly woman is encroaching on something we feel entitled to. But when it's something they should have special we don't care. All this is moot. Can you not see past the cultural necessity of the time where women were very much marginalized and would not be listened to? 

Anyway this is my own thoughts and if you disagree that's ok but I still feel it's yourself your are ultimately hurting because you are so trapped in duality you can't possibly think that the conscious awareness behind the body of all humans is one and the same. By refusing to try to see it you are only hurting your own progression. By the way Rehet Maryada is whatever Panj Pyaras give to you. Panth and they have full power of decision making. Rehet Maryada can change over time, Gurbani can't. It's timeless. 

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