Dhunda VS Dandrianwala

[JS79]

15 minutes ago, chatanga said:

 

This is where Sikhs get attached to people's personalities rather than the Guru. It is a very valid point.

 

 

telling the truth is never nindya but the Professors at Gurmat Gyan College have already made their feelings clear on singing Guru Sahib's Bani and Naam Simran. They ask "if Naam Simran could acheive anything, then why did Darbar Sahib get attacked in 1984?" "What use was Naam Simran then?

 

It isnt forbidden to be influenced by parcharaks. Valid? It is one of the most ridiculous and invalid points. How many times do they say follow the gurus teachings, follow the truth, dont follow babbe, dont go to dead graves, dont do all the rituals, listen to paath, do sehaj paaths yourselves. They say it over and over and over again! Dhadrianwale do not say 'jap my name in the morning infront of my picture' do they? They dont say 'only come to the gurdwara when its my diwan' do they? Why can people not accept their chardikala. Their parchar is solely for panthic purposes. They put the panth before everything. You can ask do a survey. Ask sangat that have listened to dhadrianwale and say 'have diwans made you feel closer to maharaj or further'. Bhindranwale have a huuuuuuge influence on us but it doesnt mean we get further away from maharaj by enjoying their parchar. Does it? If some of us do believe we are more attached to the person than to maharaj then that is our area of improvement, not their weakness. 

No jathebandi is perfect. I do not believe nam simran could prevent 84. Sant jis shaheedi was pre written. That is like saying why did sahibzade become shaheed. It is maharaj di moaj. However yes simran alone can not do anything. It is just as important to stand by the truth and speak against wrong doings as it is to japp naam. A mala alone will do nothing for us. Gurbani teaches us to have a certain lifestyle and to bring certain qualities such as high spirits and himmat to stand by the truth. What is the point in japping naam or gurbani when if something is wrong we put our thumbs on our ears and hands on our eyes and say 'oh i am going to sit in my bhora sahib and do simran and work on my inner self because it is nothing to do with me i prefer to be neutral'. That would make us no different to hindus. Speaking truth and doing simran is what the panth needs. That is what i strive. Missionaries and akj way ahead of taksal now. It is like the tortoise and the hare. 

[JS79]

Chatanga,

Okay but what is our reason? To purify the air? Some old maryada? Mahapurshs used to do it? 

Why should we bring their rituals into our religion and change them? We dont need anything except maharaj. We obv need to do maharajs satkaar but other than that we dont need to waste our time. Are you saying it is okay for me to lets say bring in a christian tradition like christmas and say 'lets change the reason and well do it for our shaheeds? We'll even use a tree? And then in 300 years time people will say 'if you dont believe in the tree you are a missionary?'.  

That is where we disagree again. We need logic. The line thats damaging us is 'our jathebandis old mahapurshs used to say......' i refer to maharajs logic. Maharajs gian. Not science. For example, if lets say we need jyot because the natural light isnt reliable, how can jyot be reliable. The little petty things are not essential it is our heads that need to be right. 

Talhe taksal is now taliban taksal. Not damdami taksal. 

[chatanga]

34 minutes ago, JS79 said:

It isnt forbidden to be influenced by parcharaks. Valid? It is one of the most ridiculous and invalid points.

I meant your point was valid.

 

34 minutes ago, JS79 said:

 

No jathebandi is perfect. I do not believe nam simran could prevent 84. Sant jis shaheedi was pre written. That is like saying why did sahibzade become shaheed. It is maharaj di moaj. However yes simran alone can not do anything. It is just as important to stand by the truth and speak against wrong doings as it is to japp naam. A mala alone will do nothing for us. Gurbani teaches us to have a certain lifestyle and to bring certain qualities such as high spirits and himmat to stand by the truth. What is the point in japping naam or gurbani when if something is wrong we put our thumbs on our ears and hands on our eyes and say 'oh i am going to sit in my bhora sahib and do simran and work on my inner self because it is nothing to do with me i prefer to be neutral'. That would make us no different to hindus. Speaking truth and doing simran is what the panth needs. That is what i strive. Missionaries and akj way ahead of taksal now. It is like the tortoise and the hare. 

 

Naam Simran could not have prevented 84 or the Sahibzadas shaheedi, you are correct. But the Naam Simran is the power behind the sword (or guns) that the Sikhs weilded in 84. Naam Simran is what built those 150 people upto taking on a massive army in a war they knew they wouldnt/couldn't win. 

Those 150 people didnt go and sit in a bhora either to do naam simran.

 

But coming back to the point of this topic, The missionairies say that naam simran is a waste of time. They forget that the first 5 gurus were al about spiriutality and the sword was taken up to defend that spiriituality. If the missionaries beleive that naam simran isnt necessary but the sword (or activism) is only required why was Panthpreet Singh Khalsa the first (or second) to run from the morcha? Why not fire back at, or attack the police who were attacking them? 

 

The ones who sat and meditated (bhoras or otherwise) stood firm against oppression when it mattered. The ones who say its not necessary and we shouldn't "cover our ears or eyes" ran.  Wheres the logic in that?

 

 

34 minutes ago, JS79 said:

 

 Speaking truth and doing simran is what the panth needs.

 

Yes I agree. But when someone speaks lies or misinformaiton it is also our duty to fight that. I'll give you another example that has come to mind. Professor Saranjit Singh Khalsa said in his video that he met some Sikhs who told him "that at such and such a place their Baba made all the women go out of the sangat because Baba wanted to do katha of bani".

 

I asked his fanclub what dera is that and what is babas name. They couldnt answer the question because they knew as well as I did, that there was no baba and no dera. Professor Sarabjit Singh Khalsa was making it up.

 

So not only do we have a duty to speak the truth but also a duty to combat lies.

 

34 minutes ago, JS79 said:

 

 Missionaries and akj way ahead of taksal now. It is like the tortoise and the hare. 

 

 

A recent video has surfaced where Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa has denied the Guru HarKrishan and Chhajju Jhiwar story as we know it today. His reason for his version is that "logically" it is not possible for a dumb person to speak, and neither could Guru Sahib get a dumb person to speak by placing a stick on his head.

 

And yet these people are way ahead of Taksal? I'd rather be behind I think.

[jkvlondon]

32 minutes ago, JS79 said:

Chatanga,

Okay but what is our reason? To purify the air? Some old maryada? Mahapurshs used to do it? 

Why should we bring their rituals into our religion and change them? We dont need anything except maharaj. We obv need to do maharajs satkaar but other than that we dont need to waste our time. Are you saying it is okay for me to lets say bring in a christian tradition like christmas and say 'lets change the reason and well do it for our shaheeds? We'll even use a tree? And then in 300 years time people will say 'if you dont believe in the tree you are a missionary?'.  

That is where we disagree again. We need logic. The line thats damaging us is 'our jathebandis old mahapurshs used to say......' i refer to maharajs logic. Maharajs gian. Not science. For example, if lets say we need jyot because the natural light isnt reliable, how can jyot be reliable. The little petty things are not essential it is our heads that need to be right. 

Talhe taksal is now taliban taksal. Not damdami taksal. 

majority of Taksal follow the parampara and Rehit as set down by Guru Pita ji himself , on what planet could Guru ji's rehit be compared to the animalistic standards of Taliban - sharam nal dubb marna chhida even for thinking let alone saying such a thing.

science didn't believe in plant communication now they do, they didn't believe in human's communicating energy bodies but now they do... in other words whatever exists and is spoken of in bani science is still catching up to... logic doesn't explain how the universe operates 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

11 minutes ago, chatanga said:

They forget that the first 5 gurus were al about spiriutality and the sword was taken up to defend that spiriituality.

I liked everything you said except this, Baba Buddha, the one who taught 6th Guru Shastars, learned about Shastar Vidya from Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

[chatanga]

7 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I liked everything you said except this, Baba Buddha, the one who taught 6th Guru Shastars, learned about Shastar Vidya from Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

 

Guru Nanak did not teach Baba Buddha anything. Guru Sahib infused all the 14 Vidya's into Baba Budha Ji with Guru Sahibs pavitar glance.

 

Just as Guru Sahib never taught Bhai Mardana how to play rabab. Guru Sahib just told Bhai Mardana to play the instrument even though Bhai Mardana protested that he didnt know how to play it. Guru Sahib drishti alone can accomplish miracles.

[JS79]

Chatang 

I never pointed that remark at sant ji and 84 shaheeds. They are our role models. I would not point at them. 

I agree we should combat lies. It is a matter of judgment to spot the liers. Usually it is easy because liers cant remember their own lies. I will give you an example. Giani thakur singh taksali told a story of massaging sant jarnail singh jis head. Then he forgot the story and told it differently. Once he say 'there was 3/4 singhs with me and then he said 'i was totally alone'.

When i say ahead of taksal i mean ahead towards maharaj not science. Missionaries need to make a few changes but taksal has lost the plot altogether.

Jkvlindon,

Guru jis rehat is what taksal is not following any longer. It is wromg to kill gursikhs. It is wromg to stoo gurmat parchar. It is wrong to divide and bring in hinduism into taksal. It is wring to speak like ajnala. It is wromg to speak like dhumma. Taksal needs to cleanse itself and THEN yes maybe there is a chance for it to follow guru jis rehat again.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

21 minutes ago, chatanga said:

Guru Nanak did not teach Baba Buddha anything. Guru Sahib infused all the 14 Vidya's into Baba Budha Ji with Guru Sahibs pavitar glance.

 

Just as Guru Sahib never taught Bhai Mardana how to play rabab. Guru Sahib just told Bhai Mardana to play the instrument even though Bhai Mardana protested that he didnt know how to play it. Guru Sahib drishti alone can accomplish miracles.

Do you think Guru Sahib knew about how to use the Vidya? He was Antarjami, but also would let Baba Buddha teach him stuff.

[jkvlondon]

16 minutes ago, JS79 said:

Chatang 

I never pointed that remark at sant ji and 84 shaheeds. They are our role models. I would not point at them. 

I agree we should combat lies. It is a matter of judgment to spot the liers. Usually it is easy because liers cant remember their own lies. I will give you an example. Giani thakur singh taksali told a story of massaging sant jarnail singh jis head. Then he forgot the story and told it differently. Once he say 'there was 3/4 singhs with me and then he said 'i was totally alone'.

When i say ahead of taksal i mean ahead towards maharaj not science. Missionaries need to make a few changes but taksal has lost the plot altogether.

Jkvlindon,

Guru jis rehat is what taksal is not following any longer. It is wromg to kill gursikhs. It is wromg to stoo gurmat parchar. It is wrong to divide and bring in hinduism into taksal. It is wring to speak like ajnala. It is wromg to speak like dhumma. Taksal needs to cleanse itself and THEN yes maybe there is a chance for it to follow guru jis rehat again.

bro 

a handful of pakhandis is NOT the Taksal  as a whole so  please think in specifics rather than generalisations. If you had said GOI paltus I would agree , I agree those that disrespect Guru Maharaj ji's darbar or bring's it into disrepute need sorting out by verbal confrontation and explanation or if still not complying physically kicking out of post.. 

[JS79]

12 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

bro 

a handful of pakhandis is NOT the Taksal  as a whole so  please think in specifics rather than generalisations. If you had said GOI paltus I would agree , I agree those that disrespect Guru Maharaj ji's darbar or bring's it into disrepute need sorting out by verbal confrontation and explanation or if still not complying physically kicking out of post.. 

Apologies. I will say "Current" Taksal going forward. I thought people understood I did not mean Sant Ji. I am talking about the present. I assumed I wouldnt have to specify each and every time. I will be a lot more clear in future for the likes of you.

Nah cant do verbal confrontation they will do a shabeel on us!