Gurbani on meat

[jkvlondon]

On 10/5/2019 at 5:11 AM, Not2Cool2Argue said:

It's from living in America and coming into contact with vegans that I realized the importance of respecting cows. You see, here in America, the most disgusting and sad places are places where animals are grown like dairy farms, pig, duck, chicken farms. The animals are kept in cages, with no room to move, and their bodily waste accumulates around them.  They develop diseases but instead of washing them, they are fed a ton of antibiotics and hormones. And they are grown so fat, they can no longer stand or support their weight. Then they are taken for slaughter. But as vegetarians, we don't really have to worry about the karma of places like this...except we do. Dairy farms are the worst. The cows must be impregnated again and again to keep producing quality milk and if the child is male, it is sent to slaughter houses. And the cows become really week from years of milk giving until they collapse. Then they are sent to slaughterhouses for meat for dog food etc. 

And as milk drinkers, we are part of this sad cycle. It is the whole reason for keeping cows in captivity and impregnating them. As long as the dairy industry exists, beef will be made and sold as male offspring have to be used up somehow. 

You guys are lucky in India, you get your milk from cows which are not harmed. so less bad karma. Our ancestors or lets say the pandits, were wise. The only animal we domesticate and use in India is the cow and bull. So to make sure we don't get any bad karma, they told the peasants to treat the cow as a goddess. And to this day, that belief has helped cows not get killed. People protested selling cows to Pakistan, people let them roam free on roads rather then send them to slaughter houses. And this is for the benefit of us all. Ofc, people are bad too. They let the cows go free when they become too old for milk. The cow that served them the whole life is abandoned. Also, male children of cows are stolen from the cow and also let on the street. 

I think the reason buffalos and goats aren't as respected is because they are not domesticated. And can survive on their own in the wild and have terrible tempers and are not as defenseless as cows.

We need to do more to support the cow and other domesticated animals. I know people who want to start a humane dairy, but there is one problem. What do we do about the male children of the cow? Bulls are no longer needed in agriculture. And it will get expensive to just house and feed them. 

 

bro ,

don't kid yourself all dairy everywhere has drugged up and slaughtered cows including India , India is one of the largest beef exporters  on the planet . Yeah it may have been different in the days of our great grands but these days even in the pind they are injecting hormones into the cows to increase milk yields . The more India follows western farming methods the more disease and pain the animals are induring , gone are the days when the bibian would boil up bucklian (kala channey) and enrich them with gurd to feed to the cow to ensure her milk is good for the calf (my nani would do this ) please make sure the two were kept in calm  quiet area to be together . India is strange they claim the cow as their mother but it is only the desi cow , not muj , fresian or jersey varieties imported , but then they let their 'mother ' eat rubbish , roam around endangering people's lives on the road . Waheguru ji give them sense

[Guest]

I think its one of those things that when you get to that level of spirituality, you know what is right and what is wrong. I'm still a mahapapi so I eat meat but avoid halal. Try to do simran everyday, slowly learning Gurmukhi and reading Baani.

[Guest SsA]

On 8/10/2017 at 9:36 PM, Guest JKaur said:

Actually, not just plants and trees but also rocks, mountains and everything! Don't need to say more, just read. 

ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Ga▫oṛī gu▫ārerī mėhlā 5. Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl: ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥ Ka▫ī janam bẖa▫e kīt paṯangā. In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect; ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥ कई जनम गज मीन कुरंगा ॥ Ka▫ī janam gaj mīn kurangā. in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer. ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥ Ka▫ī janam pankẖī sarap ho▫i▫o. In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake. ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥ Ka▫ī janam haivar barikẖ jo▫i▫o. ||1|| In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1|| ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ Mil jagḏīs milan kī barī▫ā. Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him. ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Cẖirankāl ih ḏeh sanjarī▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause|| ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥ Ka▫ī janam sail gir kari▫ā. In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains; ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥ Ka▫ī janam garabẖ hir kẖari▫ā. in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb; ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥. Ka▫ī janam sākẖ kar upā▫i▫ā. in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves; ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥ Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh jon bẖarmā▫i▫ā. ||2|| you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2|| ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ॥ Sāḏẖsang bẖa▫i▫o janam parāpaṯ. Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life. ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ॥ Kar sevā bẖaj har har gurmaṯ. Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har. ਤਿਆਗਿ ਮਾਨੁ ਝੂਠੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥ Ŧi▫āg mān jẖūṯẖ abẖimān. Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance. ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨੁ ॥੩॥ Jīvaṯ marėh ḏargėh parvān. ||3|| Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3|| ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਆ ਸੁ ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਹੋਗੁ ॥ Jo kicẖẖ ho▫ā so ṯujẖ ṯe hog. Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord. ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਕਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ ॥ Avar na ḏūjā karṇai jog. No one else can do anything at all. ਤਾ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਜਾ ਲੈਹਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥ Ŧā milī▫ai jā laihi milā▫e. We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself. ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੭੨॥ Kaho Nānak har har guṇ gā▫e. ||4||3||72|| Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72||

Beautiful

[ipledgeblue]

On 10/17/2019 at 1:28 PM, Singhkhalsa19842020 said:

 

If you want to avoid halal. Your choice 

If you want to avoid meat altogether. Thats fine too 

Lets not attach dietary guidelines with sikhism. 

But let's not forget that Kuttha (halal) is bujjar kurahit, and this is in Akal Takht maryada. so it's not a choice it is a kurahit

 

On 10/17/2019 at 7:49 PM, RajKaregaKhalsa1 said:

।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹਿ। 

Please read this article by Bhai Manvir singh ji. Very insightful and clears up a lot of confusion. 

http://manvirsingh.blogspot.com/2015/11/different-views-on-meat-reflections-on.html?m=1

ਜਉ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਰਗੀ ਮਾਰੈ ||੧||
“You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? ||1||” (Prabhaatee Kabeer Ji, Ang 1350)

Hukamnama of Guru Hargobind Ji found at Sri Harmandir Sahib, Patna Sahib (published in Hukamname, edited by Gandha Singh), which states:

ਮਾਸ ਮਛੀ ਦੇ ਨੇੜੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਵਣਾ ||
"Do not come near (i.e. consume) meat and fish."

 

।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹਿ। 

Manvir Singh is not a trustable person. Also he is jatha biased towards dietary chocies. Also this hukumnama is unverified and is also associated as being "discovered" by this jatha/jathebandi as well

7 hours ago, startingsikh said:

I think its one of those things that when you get to that level of spirituality, you know what is right and what is wrong. I'm still a mahapapi so I eat meat but avoid halal. Try to do simran everyday, slowly learning Gurmukhi and reading Baani.

instead of being mahapappi, eat mahaprasad... 

Read some of Guru Gobind singh baani such as Chandi di Vaar, Ugardanti, Shastarnaammala, long length Chaupai Sahib (starting from Mahakal)

[Not2Cool2Argue]

On 11/7/2019 at 2:37 PM, jkvlondon said:

bro ,

don't kid yourself all dairy everywhere has drugged up and slaughtered cows including India , India is one of the largest beef exporters  on the planet . Yeah it may have been different in the days of our great grands but these days even in the pind they are injecting hormones into the cows to increase milk yields . The more India follows western farming methods the more disease and pain the animals are induring , gone are the days when the bibian would boil up bucklian (kala channey) and enrich them with gurd to feed to the cow to ensure her milk is good for the calf (my nani would do this ) please make sure the two were kept in calm  quiet area to be together . India is strange they claim the cow as their mother but it is only the desi cow , not muj , fresian or jersey varieties imported , but then they let their 'mother ' eat rubbish , roam around endangering people's lives on the road . Waheguru ji give them sense

My point was to explain why we must not kill cows or eat beef as sikhs. 

 

[jkvlondon]

15 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

But let's not forget that Kuttha (halal) is bujjar kurahit, and this is in Akal Takht maryada. so it's not a choice it is a kurahit

 

Manvir Singh is not a trustable person. Also he is jatha biased towards dietary chocies. Also this hukumnama is unverified and is also associated as being "discovered" by this jatha/jathebandi as well

instead of being mahapappi, eat mahaprasad... 

Read some of Guru Gobind singh baani such as Chandi di Vaar, Ugardanti, Shastarnaammala, long length Chaupai Sahib (starting from Mahakal)

bro , surely Guru ji has not forced eating or not eating maas , but left it to the individual to judge their requirement within the boundaries They have all set . We should never be harsh to another sikh if he/she cannot eat maybe they do not want to waste their kamai on new karams  just deal with load without adding unnecessarily. Guru ji has told us we have so many avgun on us already I would never be able to trust that I could make the grade . Guru ji doesn't just say against Kuttha but also khulla maas only chatka i.e. compassionate kill by a gursikh is valid for us . Honestly as mahapurush achieved higher avashta they detached from all raas so I think it is natural to lose the 'taste' for loads of kaamnas desires with Guru ji's kirpa

[puzzled]

I dont see why anyone would wanna eat something that was alive once! Something that moved, mated, humped, p1ssed, farted, made noises, gave birth, and then it's on your dinner plate!  

But yh you shouldn't judge others for eating meat, Some vegetarians look down at meat eaters. 

[Singhkhalsa19842020]

On 11/8/2019 at 5:22 AM, ipledgeblue said:

But let's not forget that Kuttha (halal) is bujjar kurahit, and this is in Akal Takht maryada. so it's not a choice it is a kurahit

Yes absolutely agree with you. 

I am Amritdhari sikh,  and i follow the Akal takht maryada. 

Occasionally i do eat meat, not for taste. 

I dont eat carbs.no roti or daal.....its been proved time and time again this will give you health problems for example diabetes.. ... i get my nutrition from plants and healthy meats like salmon ( wild caught)

I dont eat chicken .... no nutrition (dont want to eat animal because of just taste)

I dont eat pork and beef... not enough nutrients 

Hence i dont eat for taste when it comes to meats (only wild caught salmon and pasture raised eggs , because of there nutritional benefits)

[ipledgeblue]

On 11/9/2019 at 1:43 AM, jkvlondon said:

We should never be harsh to another sikh if he/she cannot eat maybe they do not want to waste their kamai on new karams  just deal with load without adding unnecessarily. Guru ji has told us we have so many avgun on us already I would never be able to trust that I could make the grade . 

unfortunately a lot of sects, deras and jathebanddis ( and also some of the admins on this forum!) are "harsh" towards those sikhs who eat meat!

[jkvlondon]

9 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

unfortunately a lot of sects, deras and jathebanddis ( and also some of the admins on this forum!) are "harsh" towards those sikhs who eat meat!

whatever happens we all have our own karam de tokariaan to look after , if my Guru ji told us to stay as a family and to unsee another's faults I have to strive to follow his advice and agree to disagree . I don't eat but many I know do  but that is up to them and their level of karams , in the end we all answer for our thoughts and deeds .