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Bhaai Jugraj Singh says "Guru is God"?


Guest MandeepB
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2 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

It certainly seems a Christian belief as they believe only In God. They believe Jesus to be his son, not his spirit or jot. However we believe all the Gurus had his jot. Not only that, but also Ram, Krishna etc were a roop of God, however In different yugs.

The whites have generally been more of a pagan worshipping people whereas India has generally had a long history of rishis and munis performing bhagti from quite a long while back. 

The Gurus didn't have jot of God.  They are God according to Gurbani.  Ram and Krishna are as much of roop of God as Mohammed as stated in Bachittar Natak. 

Everything has God's jot in it.  Dogs have God's jot in them.  Without God's jot nothing can exist.  Krishna and ram were given the duty to spread God's name on earth.  However they erected themselves as God on earth and made people chant their names.  Bachittar Natak says they never got be people to chant God's name.  God never sent Krishna or ram as himself, but as messengers which they failed in.  Read Gurbani and we find the Shabad Guru has told us to chant Guru and Guru Nanak.  Krishna and ram got people to chant their name and Bachittar Natak says they failed to deliver God's name, so why can we chant Guru Nanak and be chanting God's name?  Because as Gurbani says, the Gurus are God; they are one and the same.  Throughout time God has shown his Naam to the people in various avatars.  Yet people did not understand the meaning of it.  Gurbani explains this by using krishna but Sikhs can't understand the meaning.  Gurbani says Krishna was born, so how can he be God?  God is beyond birth.  Krishna along with ignorant Sikhs attribute the good deeds the jot did to Krishna.  Read Gurbani and Guru Sahib attribute the good deeds of "Krishna" to God. Gurmukhs humbly say Satguru you give me the ability to do good.  The praise is not of the Gurmukh but to Guru Sahib/God.  Krishna did not understand the deep rooted ego problem he was having and he failed miserably.  And today Sikhs are having the same problem, who praise Krishna as saintly roop of God.

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if the gurus were Gods - why did they die ? And why did God need to come in 10 forms rather then just one.

when guru  Nanak disappeared and was one with God, does that mean he was at one with himself ? That's doesn't make sense 

when guru angad was being tested by guru Nanak - was God test himself ? Also guru angad converted from Hinduism ? That doesn't make sense either if he was God

2 gurus were exicuted - how can that be if they were God ? How can God die - at least the Christian narrative about Jesus makes some sort of sense this makes none. The 7fh guru was a 5 year old child that died at age 9 from smallpox. How do you explain that if he was God?

if the gurus were gods of avataars of God then are their children demigods ?

how does this work with the mool mantra ? 

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VJKK VJKF

The reason we don't call The Guru's "prophets" etc because they were Vaheguru themselves and prophets are "messengers" of Vaheguru. The Guru's shouldn't be confused for "just humans" because they were Vaheguru in human form. That's why we can be sure that the Guru is poora (perfect). All the bani is the Supreme Truth and we know this because it came from the Supreme One. That's why we should never doubt our Guru either.

VJKK VJKF

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ਆਪਿ ਨਰਾਇਣੁ ਕਲਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਵਰਿਯਉ।। ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰਿ ਆਕਾਰੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਗ ਮੰਡਲਿ ਕਰਿਯਉ।।

The Lord (Nirayan) himself with his power came into this world. The formless Lord (Nirankar) took on a form and illuminated the world.

Gurbani tells us again and again that Guru and God are no different. God came to this world through Guru, as Guru.

This theory that Guru is just a teacher was given to us by the British to downplay Sikhi and us Murukhs merrily went along with it. Yes sir yes sir three bags full sir. If only we listened to our Guru the way we listen to our goray masters.

 

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4 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

if the gurus were Gods - why did they die ? And why did God need to come in 10 forms rather then just one.

when guru  Nanak disappeared and was one with God, does that mean he was at one with himself ? That's doesn't make sense 

when guru angad was being tested by guru Nanak - was God test himself ? Also guru angad converted from Hinduism ? That doesn't make sense either if he was God

2 gurus were exicuted - how can that be if they were God ? How can God die - at least the Christian narrative about Jesus makes some sort of sense this makes none. The 7fh guru was a 5 year old child that died at age 9 from smallpox. How do you explain that if he was God?

if the gurus were gods of avataars of God then are their children demigods ?

how does this work with the mool mantra ? 

Why did God come in 10 forms. Each Guru played a different role and yet the same. They completely changed a system, a culture. Turned it all on its head. To change a people's culture takes time. Rome wasn't built over night? From Guru Nanak Sahib ji to Guru Gobind Singh ji. It all lead to the Khalsa Panth. A slow and steady process. An evolution. A gradual development. At the time of Guru Nanak Sahib ji the sikhs were not ready to pick up arms. They were far from being able to rule themselves. Fast forward to Guru Gobind Singh ji, we become a sovereign people. That takes time. To change a mindset, break a centuries old culture takes time.

The rest of your questions were answered perfectly by Kira. 

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13 minutes ago, S4NGH said:

if the gurus were Gods - why did they die ?

I think it is offensive to say the Gurus died. They did not die. People die. We say joti jot samaa gae with great respect for the Gurus for their spirits went to meet with the spirit of God. 

Janam maran dhoho mae nahi ... jan par upkari aaye.

The Gurus are above birth and death. They did not have themselves in mind when they came on earth. God our faether sent them to us - just like if you want to get across to a baby you say goo goo gaa gaa and smile and wave your hand and hold their hands. We are in the flesh and blood and we can only understand a language given to us by someone in flesh and blood. The Gurus and God are above this. They are in a spirit form. We while on earth are separated from our souls. We are lost in maya and cannot understand many things. 

Tu samrath vadh meri mat thori Raam. We simply do not have the understanding to understand fully what God really is. 

Why did they take birth on earth? They all came as messengers from God to deliver to us the message. 

One thing is though, they did not speak in parables like Jesus did. After reading the Guru Granth Sahib, you will get a better understanding of the Bible. Jesus was not able to deliver the message as clearly as Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Perhaps humanity was simply not that evolved at that time to be able to interpret the message and understand it. 

 

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10 minutes ago, sikhni777 said:

I think it is offensive to say the Gurus died. They did not die. People die. We say joti jot samaa gae with great respect for the Gurus for their spirits went to meet with the spirit of God. 

Janam maran dhoho mae nahi ... jan par upkari aaye.

The Gurus are above birth and death. They did not have themselves in mind when they came on earth. God our faether sent them to us - just like if you want to get across to a baby you say goo goo gaa gaa and smile and wave your hand and hold their hands. We are in the flesh and blood and we can only understand a language given to us by someone in flesh and blood. The Gurus and God are above this. They are in a spirit form. We while on earth are separated from our souls. We are lost in maya and cannot understand many things. 

Tu samrath vadh meri mat thori Raam. We simply do not have the understanding to understand fully what God really is. 

Why did they take birth on earth? They all came as messengers from God to deliver to us the message. 

One thing is though, they did not speak in parables like Jesus did. After reading the Guru Granth Sahib, you will get a better understanding of the Bible. Jesus was not able to deliver the message as clearly as Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Perhaps humanity was simply not that evolved at that time to be able to interpret the message and understand it. 

 

I agree with you. I also didn't say that ji :) I was quoting "Guest Guest". 

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9 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

It certainly seems a Christian belief as they believe only In God. They believe Jesus to be his son, not his spirit or jot. However we believe all the Gurus had his jot. Not only that, but also Ram, Krishna etc were a roop of God, however In different yugs.

The whites have generally been more of a pagan worshipping people whereas India has generally had a long history of rishis and munis performing bhagti from quite a long while back. 

Might want to brush up on the Christian Trinity. Christians do indeed believe jesus was/is God. The father, son and holy spirit all in one is God according to Christian belief. However... This is a clear contradiction to earlier Christian writings and the old testament... But that's a story for another day :)

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The Guru and God are one. There is no difference between them but God is still everywhere. You can think of it as we're all drops in the ocean of God but the Guru understands this and is fully connected with this truth whilst we have forgotten it. We can't see ourselves as a part of God and we don't know who we are. The Gurus were like God, without ego, whereas we have ego. That's what Bhai Jagraj talked about. The Gurus were perfect beings, they were sent by Maharaj to guide us onto the oath of truth. 

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