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Guest Panesar Kaur

Marriage of Guru Nanak

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Guest Panesar Kaur

Dear Sangaath,

My Muslim friends asked me, why did Guru Nanak Dev Ji married Matha Sulkhani like Hindus, by going round the "sacred fire"? How can i answer this please?

vgkvgf

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Hi Phenji,

Maharaj Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not do phere around agni like Hindus do... please see below:

 

Mool Chand arranged for the Brahmin priests to debate the exact marriage rituals to be followed with the Guru. The Guru was sitting besides a crooked mud wall (kandh) discussing the marriage plans with the Brahmin clergy. As the wall was damaged and in poor state, and there had been recent rains, some in the bride's party thought that it may fall on top of the Guru. An elderly lady was asked by the bride's family to warn Guru Nanak about the danger. The old woman approached the Guru and warned him of the pending danger from the damaged wall.

Guru Nanak just smiled and said "Mataji, ehh kand sadeeya layah nehee digdee..." - "This wall will not fall for centuries. The will of God shall prevail." In fact, the wall is still preserved within the Gurdwara Kand Sahib and a celebration is held here every year on the anniversary of Guru Nanak's marriage.

In 1487, the marriage finally did take place, and it did ignore the Brahmin rituals. Guru Nanak and his bride took four rounds instead of the prescribed seven around the sacred fire. It is said that he also spoke a few words at the ceremony. Unfortunately, these words were not duly recorded and nothing has been written regarding Sulakhani's thoughts or sentiments on the subject.

That the event had a profound effect on her can certainly be taken for granted. At any rate, the marriage party and celebrations were a grand and impressive event attended by the rich and influential people of that lime. Early writers have indicated that it was a most grand affair as befitted the daughter of the town's tax collector.

Dera Sahib Gurdwara was built at the place where stood the house of Mul Chand, father of Bibi Sulakhni, wife of Guru Nanak Dev where the actually wedding took place. Kand Sahib Gurdwara, was built at the place where the marriage party of Guru Nanak Dev was made to rest before the wedding ceremony took place,

 

hope this helps :)

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Guest H-Kaur
12 hours ago, PranaamShaheedaNu said:

Hi Phenji,

Maharaj Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not do phere around agni like Hindus do... please see below:

 

Mool Chand arranged for the Brahmin priests to debate the exact marriage rituals to be followed with the Guru. The Guru was sitting besides a crooked mud wall (kandh) discussing the marriage plans with the Brahmin clergy. As the wall was damaged and in poor state, and there had been recent rains, some in the bride's party thought that it may fall on top of the Guru. An elderly lady was asked by the bride's family to warn Guru Nanak about the danger. The old woman approached the Guru and warned him of the pending danger from the damaged wall.

Guru Nanak just smiled and said "Mataji, ehh kand sadeeya layah nehee digdee..." - "This wall will not fall for centuries. The will of God shall prevail." In fact, the wall is still preserved within the Gurdwara Kand Sahib and a celebration is held here every year on the anniversary of Guru Nanak's marriage.

In 1487, the marriage finally did take place, and it did ignore the Brahmin rituals. Guru Nanak and his bride took four rounds instead of the prescribed seven around the sacred fire. It is said that he also spoke a few words at the ceremony. Unfortunately, these words were not duly recorded and nothing has been written regarding Sulakhani's thoughts or sentiments on the subject.

That the event had a profound effect on her can certainly be taken for granted. At any rate, the marriage party and celebrations were a grand and impressive event attended by the rich and influential people of that lime. Early writers have indicated that it was a most grand affair as befitted the daughter of the town's tax collector.

Dera Sahib Gurdwara was built at the place where stood the house of Mul Chand, father of Bibi Sulakhni, wife of Guru Nanak Dev where the actually wedding took place. Kand Sahib Gurdwara, was built at the place where the marriage party of Guru Nanak Dev was made to rest before the wedding ceremony took place,

 

hope this helps :)

I never knew Guru Nanak Dev went round the "sacred fire"!? Deleted

 

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Ask your Muslim associates about the many inconsistencies in logic and various hypocrisies from the accepted account of Muhammed's life. I promise you you'll never again hear a peep from them regarding our Guru Sahibs. The question is do you have the fortitude and anakh to go that far?

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Guest Panesar Kaur
12 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Ask your Muslim associates about the many inconsistencies in logic and various hypocrisies from the accepted account of Muhammed's life. I promise you you'll never again hear a peep from them regarding our Guru Sahibs. The question is do you have the fortitude and anakh to go that far?

DELETED - Troll Detected.

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45 minutes ago, PranaamShaheedaNu said:

Guru Nanak and his bride took four rounds instead of the prescribed seven around the sacred fire.

I found this as well veerji.. 

The history of Anand marriage ceremony is traced back to the time of GURU Amar Das (1479-1574), who composed the long 40 stanza hymn Anand, in the Ramkali measure, suitable to be sung or recited on all occasions of religious import.

Guru Amar Das initiated Anand Viah - Anand Marriage. The marriage was solemnized by reciting Anand (Anand Sahib), and Ardas (invocation –supplication), and this ceremony got the name of Anand Viah, or Anand Karaj. Perhaps, his daughter Bibi Bhani was married to Bhai Jetha ji (Gur Ram Das) by reciting Anand.

His successor, Guru Ram Das, composed a four stanza hymn, Lavan, which is recited and sung to solemnize nuptials.

Guru Nanak Dev, the first Sikh Prophet, refused to marry by ancient Hindu ceremony of Vedi. It caused a furor, but things settled down soon. He wrote Mool Mantar on a paper, placed it on a low stool, and performed Lavan’ – went around it four times, followed by the girl. Evidently, from the fourth Guru onward the Guru’s marriages were most probably performed by Anand Karaj.

Add - Guru Angad Devji and Guru Amardaasji were already married before they became a disciple of Sikh Gurus.

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On 30/11/2017 at 9:54 AM, Guest Panesar Kaur said:

Dear Sangaath,

My Muslim friends asked me, why did Guru Nanak Dev Ji married Matha Sulkhani like Hindus, by going round the "sacred fire"? How can i answer this please?

vgkvgf

Tell them

He is the Lord himself, He is not bound by anything, His wish is Hukum for us, we as sikhs, do not even ever question such nonsense.

Seriously, these people are so much marriage oriented and all that nonsense , that they are not at all interested in the teachings, but, to create controversy and doubts.

Pen jee I strongly recomend you, you to stay away from their sangat, they are no good for us, nor any others as well. You can see their responsibility in the huge problems in the world, as of hatred,  violence, disrespect to women, wars, terrorism, backward in education and progress, anyone under their influence, is blocked in time , space, and above all, evolution as spiritual beings.

They drag humanity to the level of ego, madness, and beasts.

Once again, stay away from their company, for if they really respected you, they would dare not ask you such a foolish and a wicked question.

Edited by harsharan000
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Guest Respect Women
12 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Ask your Muslim associates about the many inconsistencies in logic and various hypocrisies from the accepted account of Muhammed's life. I promise you you'll never again hear a peep from them regarding our Guru Sahibs. The question is do you have the fortitude and anakh to go that far?

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Guest Einstein

Was Muhammad a Pedophile?

From WikiIslam, the online resource on Islam
 
 
This article is an essay/op-ed by R. Frank. Pen-icon2.png
Essays/op-eds do not necessarily reflect the views of WikiIslam. See the disclaimer for details.
 

Introduction[edit]

Yes. Muhammad was undoubtedly a pedophile.

One of the most disturbing things about Islam is that it does not categorically condemn pedophilia. Indeed, it cannot, for to do so would draw attention to the pedophilia of Muhammad, the founder of Islam. Muslims cannot categorically condemn pedophilia without denouncing him as a false prophet. In addition to Aisha, he had planned to marry a baby, but died as a result of a poisoning before he could do so.

Pedophilia is the sexual exploitation of children. The Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders says that pedophilia is "an abnormal interest in children; a disorder that is characterized by recurrent intense sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies generally involving…children, or other non-consenting persons. Pedophilia is also a psycho-sexual disorder in which the fantasy or actual act of engaging in sexual activity with prepubertal children is the preferred or exclusive means of achieving sexual excitement and gratification. Pedophilia is defined by mental health professionals as a mental disorder, but the American legal system defines acting on a pedophilic urge as a criminal act."

Please note the words: "the preferred means of achieving sexual excitement and gratification." From the age of 54 until 64, Muhammad preferred the very young Aisha to the rest of his large harem and sex slaves. He had fantasies about Aisha before asking for her hand. He passed these fantasies off as "revelations" from the Supreme Being.

The Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders reveals that some researchers attribute pedophilia to arrested emotional development; that is, the pedophile is attracted to children because he or she has never matured psychologically. Some regard pedophilia as the result of a distorted need to dominate a sexual partner. Since children are smaller and usually weaker than adults, they may be regarded as non-threatening potential partners. This drive for domination is sometimes thought to explain why most pedophiles are males.

Muhammad's emphasis on controlling or dominating others and his use of savage, irresistible force to make them "submit" to his will is consistent with the narcissistic urges of a pedophile who enjoys the domination and submission of a small, vulnerable person.

James Hord, a psychologist in Panama City, Florida, who specializes in treating sexually abused children, agrees that pedophiles "need to feel they have power and control in a relationship, which is easy with children."

Pedophilia is an abuse of power[edit]

The Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders: "Some pedophiles offer rationalizations or excuses that enable them to avoid assuming responsibility for their actions."

Muhammad rationalized and excused every urge to dominate and control others, even to commit the act of pedophilia, by using Allah as his alter ego, offering him a perfect justification for his other brutalities as well. The compliant source of his revelations gave Muhammad whatever justification he needed for unethical behavior.

The American Psychiatric Association says: "An adult who engages in sexual activity with a child is performing a criminal and immoral act that never can be considered normal or socially acceptable behavior."

Dutch psychologist Gerard van den Aardweg points out that "non-coerced" sex is a misnomer because there is always an element of coercion -- involving a misuse of adult authority, [my italics] and a misuse of the child's need for affection. If a researcher sees no harm, "it may be because he is using the wrong glasses...not because there is nothing to see."

Dr. David Finkelhor, a leading U.S. researcher in the field of child sexual abuse, describes some of the consequences of childhood seduction: confusion about sexual identity and sexual norms; inability to differentiate sex from love; confusion between care-getting and care-giving, with lowered respect for adult authority; guilt, shame, anxiety, lowered self-esteem, depression, vulnerability to drug and alcohol abuse, and impaired ability to judge the trustworthiness of others.

"Ultimately," says Dr. Finkelhor, "I do continue to believe that the prohibition on adult-child sexual contact is primarily a moral issue. While empirical findings have some relevance, they are not [to be] the final arbiter."

Fallacious Arguments from Islamists[edit]

Arguing that Muhammad reflected the practices of his time is to admit that Muhammad was not inspired by God and was a false prophet. He did not raise the bar of morality to adult monogamy, but behaved the same as pagans. Moreover, by making marriage alliances, he revealed his true motive was his personal political power, rather than the religious or moral betterment of society. Far from showing Muhammad as a moral leader, this argument shows the reverse: that Muhammad was morally a pagan and a scheming politician. True revelation would have categorically denounced pedophilia as evil.

Islamists further use the "Fallacy of the Circular Argument" or "Begging the Question" to answer this question. They begin by stating "Muhammad was a moral example given by God, so he could not be pedophile." They are merely "begging" us to believe that Muhammad's character was excellent in spite of evidence to the contrary. Since no moral person could be a pedophile, they conclude Muhammad was not a pedophile. This is the basic Islamic argument, but this reasoning is circular and fallacious. There were many people in Muhammad's day who considered him immoral. The Hadiths record that he had most of them exterminated. The use of violence to persuade others to "submit" is not a moral argument, but another logical fallacy. The Fallacy of the Appeal to Force in place of a reasoned argument is the most prevalent argument in the ahadith and Qur'an.

Conclusion[edit]

Obviously, we all cringe when we think of pedophilia and acknowledge that it is a shameful act of immorality, whether committed by Muhammad, his followers, or others. The main conclusions of this article are:

  1. Muhammad was a pedophile because he preferred his child bride to the others and planned to marry a baby
  2. not everyone at the time approved of his marriage to Aisha,
  3. Muhammad's pedophilia and multiple marriages caused huge scandals in his small community that required special revelations to restore confidence in him; these are recorded at length in the Qur'an,
  4. a true prophet would have been inspired by the Supreme Being to denounce the evil of pedophilia, rather than commit it,
  5. pedophilia is backward, uncivilized and barbaric and destroys the life of a woman,
  6. Muslims cannot condemn pedophilia even if they would like to, for they would have to abandon Islam. Muslims tacitly approve of pedophilia, even if they are embarrassed to say so. So mesmerized are Muslims by the example of Muhammad's pedophilia that they are unable to categorically denounce pedophilia or feel shame. It is prevalent in many Muslim countries disguised as child marriage. The UN is today trying to stop the evil of child marriage among the backward Islamic regions of Asia and Africa. The future of some 300 million young girls depends on it.

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