Jump to content

Celebrating the birth of Jesus


Big_Tera
 Share

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

I knew about christianity because our primary school used to read parables to us each assembley and we used to sing hymns, do the nativity at christmas

Isn't that illegal, or did you and your parents consent to that? And if so why?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, simran345 said:

It was the same at our school. We also sang hymns in assembly. It was the norm in all schools, but I don’t know what it is nowadays. 

Its absurd that you guys had to go through this. Does the UK not have separate Christian/Catholic schools? This is literally imposing religion onto impressionable young children. Its wrong on so many levels!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, TejS said:

Its absurd that you guys had to go through this. Does the UK not have separate Christian/Catholic schools? This is literally imposing religion onto impressionable young children. Its wrong on so many levels!

Yeah well this was a long time ago. Many many moons ago. There were no Sikhi schools then, it was part of a normal school routine to sing hymns. I used to have a bible too, but don’t remember much. Nativity plays are still done in schools at Christmas time, but I don’t know about the hymns. I guess it depends which area you are in too. I think there weren’t any Sikhi schools then either, as we lived in a majority gora area. The catholic schools were separate from our school. We didn’t have the privileges of what there are now. But it was down to the parents/family to teach the children about their faith/religion. Not sure if Sikhi is taught in RE classes now. The Gurdwara did have Punjabi classes, which I attended for a bit and our secondary school had a few too, which I was at top always. Don’t know why as I didn’t study much, but somehow seemed to be good at it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, TejS said:

Isn't that illegal, or did you and your parents consent to that? And if so why?

I don't know about the UK, but when I studied at a  Convent school in India (which was perceived to be one of the best) for some months, we had to sing Catholic prayers every day and refusing to do so could result in punishment (fines, hitting with stick or even expulsion). I remember during Christmas season, we had to sing extra prayers (Silent Night, Christmas Tree etc).  "Sisters" (nuns) would take extra measures to punish kids speaking Punjabi, especially during Christmas month. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, TejS said:

Isn't that illegal, or did you and your parents consent to that? And if so why?

no it is not illegal  or at least it wasn't then and teachers and headteachers were not constrained in how to teach as the current spoonfed neo liberal slush given to our kids.

in the seventies , people actually still talked about the faith of the land ...nothing unusual really ...Indians are forever talking about their majority religions and forcing their chosen languages on others.

it was a state school , and we all sang the songs when told to close eyes and bow heads I did the same but did naam japp ...same with my siblings

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 10:11 PM, MrDoaba said:

 

Yes kids are ignorant, that was my point, they are ignorant to the facts, hence, everything I said in my post.

This all makes sense although, again, I do not see how it relates to the matter being discussed. I'm talking about formal celebration of the day itself, traditions! Something to mark the day. Sikhs as a whole do not have enthusiasm when it comes to their own celebrations. Then we b!tch and moan when kids don't know about it, or don't want to celebrate it, or when the day in question is sidelined because it is perceived as boring - Sakhis and Ithiaas only go so far.

 

Who chose not to tell those children about gurpurabs. The more you find out and share with your children the more they will undetstand about sikhi. I think a parents course should be developed which teaches sikh parents about what to talk to the choldren about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 29/12/2017 at 9:15 AM, TejS said:

Its absurd that you guys had to go through this. Does the UK not have separate Christian/Catholic schools? This is literally imposing religion onto impressionable young children. Its wrong on so many levels!

the only reason there is seperation of church and state in the US is because the church would be outspoken against the STate and that didn't suit the fed reserve and elites so they are now muzzled by threatening their tax exempt status.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/12/2017 at 11:46 PM, Big_Tera said:

Slowly slowly your kids with becomes jehovas witness. slowlys but surely young female Sikh wen will have crosses on the knecks. dont be foolish. This is happening rigjt now. We are turning into coconuts. 

 

I dont know. when we were young we always wanted to have a tree. None of my siblings have become Christians yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • WJKK WJKF Sangat Ji, I bought a brand new medium Artisan Kirpan (8.7 inches) from https://thekhalsaraj.com/products/black-g10-ultra-durable-kirpans 2 months ago, and it is in unused condition. I bought it 2 months ago and it is in unused condition, with everything that came with it still fully sealed. I even paid extra to get it ੴ ਸਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  laser engraved on the blade. This cost me £370 including shipping from the USA. It is in brand new condition, but I no longer need it since I have been gifted a new Buddha Dal-made Pesh Kabz for free. I am selling it for £250 even though it is in brand new condition - it is a first-hand Kirpan. From the official website, it costs £370. The handle is indestructable G10 fiberglass, wielded to a razor sharp blade (edge and tip) which is engraved with the custom Gurbani. Please reply if any Singh/Kaur here would like to buy it - it's 100% first hand but £120 reduced price. Includes a an embroidered padded case for airport travel, a blank certificate of ownership, maintenance brochure and a beautifully decorated black/grey adjustable Gatra.   I sent this advert out to a few places, and also asked some retailers if they'd like it, so it may go soon. Please do reply if anybody is interested, more than happy to answer questions too! (Note: the pic is from Google but is exactly what the Kirpan and Gatra both look like - the one I have is still in the packaging).    
    • WJKK WJKF Sangat Ji, I bought a brand new Artisan Kirpan (pic below) from https://thekhalsaraj.com/products/black-g10-ultra-durable-kirpans. It is the medium option (8.7 inches). I bought it 2 months ago and it is in unused condition, with everything that came with it still fully sealed. I even paid extra to get it ੴ ਸਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  laser engraved on the blade. This cost me £370 including shipping from the USA. It is in brand new condition, but I no longer need it since I have been gifted a new Buddha Dal-made Pesh Kabz for free. I am selling it for £250 even though it is in brand new condition - it is a first-hand Kirpan. From the official website, it costs £370. The handle is indestructable G10 fiberglass, wielded to a razor sharp blade (edge and tip) which is engraved with the custom Gurbani. Please reply if any Singh/Kaur here would like to buy it - it's 100% first hand but £120 less than normal. Comes with a padded foam case for airport travel, a blank certificate of ownership, maintenance brochure and a beautifully decorated black/grey adjustable Gatra.   I sent this advert out to a few places, and also asked some retailers if they'd like it, so it may go soon. Please do reply if anybody is interested, more than happy to answer questions too! (below's a pic of the exact model, but not the Kirpan I have, as it's still in its box. I've only unsheathed it once to inspect it, and I can confirm it's in perfect condition).        
    • WJKK WJKF! How long will this forum remain online for in a readable & accessible state? It appears susceptible to shut-down. It would be a shame if all the forum's content from over the decades is lost in such an event due to servers hosting this forum shutting-down. This forum, whilst not currently active, remains an important repository of the Sikh religion online. It also is a fundamental aspect of Sikh cyber culture that existed from the early Internet period from the 2000's to 2010's before the domination by big social-media sites that consolidated the community. Thus, have the web-masters of this forum considered archiving this forum's contents before it is lost forever? I can assist you in this by saving the content to the Internet Archive on your behalf. Please let me know your thoughts about such an endeavour and I hope you may consider the possibility of archiving the forum for posterity. Future generations of Sikhs and Sikh researchers will be grateful. Kind regards, Theth Panjabi (you can find me on IG at theth.panjabi and on X/Twitter at ThethPanjabi)
    • Video on the tale, gurdwara, and manuscript: link As the story goes, during the Vadda Ghallughara genocide against the Sikhs perpetrated by the Afghan Durrani Empire on 5–6 February 1762, not only were Sikh lives lost, but our original Damdami Sahib Bir recension was also lost in that carnage. However, over the years I have spent researching our history, many claimed it was taken back to Afghanistan by Ahmad Shah Abdali's troops as loot whilst others said it was secretly hidden somewhere by the Singhs for safe-keeping. As of today, it remains untraceable and I presume it is gone for good. However, I came across a couple of articles stating that there were actually around five master-copies of the original Damdami Bir, with one of these copies being safeguarded by the jatha of Bhai Sudha Singh of the Shaheedan Misl. "It is said that the tenth Sikh master Guru Gobind Singh had got five birs written at Damdama Sahib. The bani (writings) of the ninth Sikh master Guru Tegh Bahadur were incorporated in these birs. These five birs were given to different jathas (groups) of Sikhs by Guru Gobind Singh to be safely installed. One bir was being taken by Sudha Singh who was leading a jatha of 19 Sikhs, when Abdali'[s] forces stormed Kup-Rohira and killed thousands of Sikhs. Though all 19 Sikhs were massacred by Abdali, Sudha Singh somehow brought the bir to Kuthala. Since then it has been kept at village gurdwara." (Times of India, 2012) The gurdwara today [Gurdwara Shaheed Baba Sudha Singh Ji in Kuthala] has a certain historical manuscript that they claim is one of the five master-copies of the Damdama recension. You can see close-up shots of the bir in the video posted. I will also share close-up images of its folios in the comment section. I will also provide a faithful English translation of the video's narration so non-Punjabi speakers may benefit from this post. I will leave the question on whether this bir is authentic or not to your judgement but I will provide my own analysis below.   English translation of the video's narration: The Guru-form Guru Khalsa Holy Congregation (Sadh Sangat) Ji, Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. The Gurdwara Sahib that the congregation is currently beholding is situated in Village Kuthala, near Malerkotla, in the Sangrur district of Punjab. A very great treasure is preserved within this Gurdwara Sahib. The history of this Gurdwara Sahib is very closely related to the Vada Ghalughara (The Great Holocaust) that took place in February 1762. Baba Sudha Singh Ji, the third head of the Shaheedi Misl, arrived at this location considering it a safe place. He brought with him that sacred holy scripture (Saroop) which the Tenth Father, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, had personally dictated to Bhai Mani Singh Ji on the holy land of Damdama Sahib. Upon arriving, he personally performed the last rites (cremation) of 19 martyred Sikhs at this site. As he prepared to leave to take command of the Jatha (the Sikh contingent), the sacred holy scripture he had brought was enshrined at this very location. At that time, this place was known as Dera Jaga Sidh, but nowadays, a very beautiful building stands here in the name of Gurdwara Sahib Shaheedi. The sacred holy scriptures that were enshrined at that time are today ceremoniously displayed (Prakashwan) with great respect every Channi Dashmi (the tenth day of the bright lunar fortnight) for the congregation to behold. Devotees from within the country and abroad arrive to catch a glimpse of these sacred scriptures and receive the Guru's blessings. Every year, an annual Gurmat Samagam (religious congregation) is held for five consecutive days in memory of the martyrs of the Great Holocaust, concluding on Magh Sudi Dashmi. Furthermore, a book containing the full detailed history—titled after Shaheed Baba Sudha Singh Ji and the Hand-written Holy Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji—was released in February 2013 by the managing volunteers based on historical research. It was released by the 14th head of the Shaheedi Misl, Singh Sahib Baba Makhan Singh Ji (the current head of Baba Bakala Sahib), the Meet Jathedar Singh Ji, and Sant Gurdev Singh Ji of Anandpur Sahib (the current head). The congregation can obtain spiritual benefit by reading it. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.   My analysis: In my humble opinion (which may be incorrect), this bir is not a master-copy of the Damdami Bir. It more closely resembles the highly-decorated birs of the Kashmiri-style that were created during the reign of the Sikh Empire in the first half of the 19th century. We can see this bir has highly illuminated and illustrated angs (folios), which took the great skill of a master artisan to make, which required resources to pay and patronize. Usually, the manuscripts during the Sikh Empire were the most elaborately decorated, as this was when the Sikhs were at a high-point, masters of the land, possessing vast amounts of resources that they could use to fund such endeavors. Therefore, whilst the story may be true and a master-copy of the Damdami Bir recension may have once been at this location, I am not convinced that this particular manuscript is it. I may be mistaken and I am open to constructive criticism. 1633648456_GurdwaraHistory.mp4
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use