My Response to the recent Khalistani Music Video: "Kaali" by Chani Nattan

[jashb]

On 2/18/2018 at 8:33 PM, TheeTurbanator said:

Please watch the video before you read my response: 

 

Thanks for putting this video up brother.

 

On 2/18/2018 at 8:33 PM, TheeTurbanator said:

MY RESPONSE: 

 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! 

As someone who actually supports the concept of an independent state run on Sikh values (Khalistan), I don’t think that songs like this do anything for positive the movement. We need less gang bang hood type of music videos, and we need actual change in terms of drug addiction, female infanticide, low birth rates, lack of education, etc, all of which will actually help the Sikh community, rather than a music video in which we are waving around guns and talking about assassinating people. 

Singhs have been assassinating dushts since Akaal Purakh Waheguru Jio gave Sachi Sarkaar Chhevin Patshah Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji Maharaj the hukam to raise the panth's army for this very purpose.

All of the panth's wars, battles and encounters have been fought for this purpose. If it wasn't for panthic Singhs assassinating enemies of the panth, it's likely many ordinary Sikhs wouldn't exist today.

I can't even put into words how Gurbani resonates with the beauty of Akaal striking the living daylights out of dushts.

There is nothing wrong with assassinating dushts. In fact it is Har Hukam. There is no plainer way of saying this, but those that don't punish dushts are just disobeying Hukam (I don't exclude myself from this statement).

There is nothing wrong with talking about assassinating dushts either. What's wrong is just talking about it, and not carrying it out.

 

On 2/18/2018 at 8:33 PM, TheeTurbanator said:

They put videos of Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, but don’t realize that whenever people came to him asking to join the movement, the first thing he said was to pick up a Gutka before the Gun, because the real power of Sikhi comes from Bani. Baba Bhindranwale also never boasted or showed off, and and neither did he all of a sudden start demanding a separate state, but he primarily focused on major issues in the panth, and used violence as a last resort. Our community has a habit of ignoring the important humanitarian and intellectual work of sevadaars and mainly focusing on the action part. People always talk about Baba Deep Singh as a physical warrior, but forget how he had an entire life of studying Bani that led up to his legendary Shaheedi. 

Bhagti mein Shakti

 

On 2/18/2018 at 8:33 PM, TheeTurbanator said:

We all like to talk about Khalistan, yet forget the main issues affecting the panth like drug addiction, farmer debt, suicide, casteism, sexism, lack of education, low birthrates, etc. The Panth doesn't have the infrastructure to build or support another country, and before we start boasting about end goals, we should at least primarily focus on our main issues. 

I have considered and debated these issues for years.

Eventually, I concluded that none of these issues can be solved without Khalistan.

 

On 2/18/2018 at 8:33 PM, TheeTurbanator said:

A common response that I get is that this is just a music video, and that it at least does a good job of reminding people about important issues, however I would argue that there are better ways of talking about the issue of Sikh independence without waving around weapons and acting like a gang. The last thing the Panth, and the Khalsitani movement needs right now is even more bad publicity, and videos like this only reinforce the common held belief that the main advocates of Khalistan were from the west.

(Though I know you don't dispute this,) It's the other way around. The main advocates of Khalistan were and are still in the east. Here in the west we are just following in their footsteps.

It's not really their fault that Singhs on the ground can't afford to be outspoken though.

 

On 2/18/2018 at 8:33 PM, TheeTurbanator said:

PS: At least they didn’t put a communist flag in this video, it was a decent song tho. 

Lol

 

On 2/18/2018 at 8:33 PM, TheeTurbanator said:

Question for the Sangat: What do you guys think of this video? 

To be honest, I thought it was alright  

 

[TheeTurbanator]

1 hour ago, jashb said:

There is nothing wrong with talking about assassinating dushts either. What's wrong is just talking about it, and not carrying it out.

 

You completely misunderstand my point, im not criticizing the fact that they are singing about assassinations, but the manner in which they are doing so. Sikhs traditionally had a lot of humility and discipline, but these guys are acting like a Gangbangers, and its not a great image for Sikhs. Just look at the way they are boasting and waving around guns. There is a certain etiquette and way to talk about sensitive topics. Music videos like this just make the entire freedom movement look bad. 

 

1 hour ago, jashb said:

have considered and debated these issues for years.

Eventually, I concluded that none of these issues can be solved without Khalistan.

Stupid argument. We as Sikhs need to stop blaming others for our problems and take responsibility. The Indian government isnt everywhere, and responsible for everything. The very fact that we have so much caste and lack of education in the WEST, outside of India, shows that we are doing this to ourselves. 

It's time to come out of denial mode and accept the reality, the Sikh community is harming itself. 

1 hour ago, jashb said:

(Though I know you don't dispute this,) It's the other way around. The main advocates of Khalistan were and are still in the east. Here in the west we are just following in their footsteps.

It's not really their fault that Singhs on the ground can't afford to be outspoken though.

Let's be honest, the main activists for Khalistan are in the west, and Khalistan movement in India was destroyed in the 1980-90s, they fought a war they could not win, and they lost. The remnants of their ideology fled to the west becuase they would not be safe in india. 

The tactics the Khalistanis used in the past did not work, and will never work. It's time we focus on fixing our major issues and spreading Sikhi. Maybe in a few generations when we are more competent that we should openly demand a separate state, but for now a united india is our best option against both India and Pakistan.  

1 hour ago, jashb said:

To be honest, I thought it was alright  

 

This music video demonstrates the horrible state of the panth, we are all talk, we can't even do anything besides making music videos. The people who made that video are probably all blacklisted from india. We need less gangbangers and wanna be freedom fighters, and more proper education and academic focus. AK47s dont work anymore, it's time to update our strategy. 

[jashb]

3 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

You completely misunderstand my point, im not criticizing the fact that they are singing about assassinations, but the manner in which they are doing so. Sikhs traditionally had a lot of humility and discipline, but these guys are acting like a Gangbangers, and its not a great image for Sikhs. Just look at the way they are boasting and waving around guns. There is a certain etiquette and way to talk about sensitive topics. Music videos like this just make the entire freedom movement look bad. 

LOL

If you say so, kakeyo!

 

3 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

Stupid argument. We as Sikhs need to stop blaming others for our problems and take responsibility.

Stupid argument da lagda, chhittar na khalee tutti'ch pyonke.

 

3 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

The Indian government isnt everywhere, and responsible for everything. The very fact that we have so much caste and lack of education in the WEST, outside of India, shows that we are doing this to ourselves. 

It's time to come out of denial mode and accept the reality, the Sikh community is harming itself. 

Let's be honest, the main activists for Khalistan are in the west, and Khalistan movement in India was destroyed in the 1980-90s, they fought a war they could not win, and they lost. The remnants of their ideology fled to the west becuase they would not be safe in india. 

The tactics the Khalistanis used in the past did not work, and will never work. It's time we focus on fixing our major issues and spreading Sikhi. Maybe in a few generations when we are more competent that we should openly demand a separate state, but for now a united india is our best option against both India and Pakistan.  

 Kal da jammeya kakeya, tu sanu panjaab da santaap bare sikhayenga?

Ponki ja kakeya, lagga reh...

3 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

This music video demonstrates the horrible state of the panth,

Vadda aaya judge te jury

 

3 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

We are all talk, we can't even do anything besides making music videos. The people who made that video are probably all blacklisted from india. We need less gangbangers and wanna be freedom fighters, and more proper education and academic focus. AK47s dont work anymore, it's time to update our strategy. 

Karleh update fer. Pesh kar teri navi strategy. Lol

 

[TheeTurbanator]

21 minutes ago, jashb said:

Stupid argument da lagda, chhittar na khalee tutti'ch pyonke.

 

This one line represents a lot of what is wrong with the modern day Khalistani movement. When you get criticized, you personally attack the person instead of the actual argument. 

 

23 minutes ago, jashb said:

Karleh update fer. Pesh kar teri navi strategy. Lol

  

The first step is education. You people need to get more intellectual first and spread Sikhi before you pick up weapons. 

[Guest]

What a stupid song and stupid music video

[Prokharkoo84]

very good post and if i am honest i am divided on my thoughts about this song/video.

the postives:

- it show the anakh/josh that the singhs of the sangaarsh had is still there with the new generation. remember it was the kharkoos using force that had the whole of hindustan shook during the peak of the movement

- its easy for the youth to relate to and gives a bit of hype

- the song itself is good, i like the line at the end about people calling singhs giani as i think its very relevant in todays age

- channi is the relative of shaheed mohinder singh kooner and its good to see that the relative of a shaheed is trying his best to keep the legacy alive. 

the negatives:

- yeah in the wider punjabi/sikh community and in front of others e.g canadian media, indian media etc it does make us look stupid in hindsight, in the respect where we look like we are violent outlaws

- i agree that this song doesnt address the reality of ground level punjab and the issues it is facing - but then again, how many other so called khalistanis are doing this?

overall i think all the posts raised in this debate need to be considered, the whole movement apart from those like mintoo and co who have given their everything appears to be hype on social media, or for singhs to walk around with kharkoo/khalistan tshirts on acting militant but refused to either go to punjab or when they do go, they dont wear the same tshirts lol.

[jashb]

A lot of the b1tching simply seems to be about these Singhs being decked out in all black from head to toe. This is a really superficial argument, and is the same as the one levelled against Sikh Unit and others back in the day. Now I don't claim to know the background of these Singhs or where they grew up, but for anyone who grew up in or around a council estate, being dressed out in mostly or even all black was simply the norm for a lot of youth. It didn't necessarily imply gang membership, though those wearing it may well have been affiliated with a gang, and if so usually for their safety. If these Singhs were truly gang banging there's no way they'd be openly displaying their faces in this video, so it's safe to say it all largely appears to be posturing. They also shouldn't be waving around shastars like it's all just fun, though anyone with half a brain would have realised they are merely replicas. But that's hardly as bad as some are trying to make out. Immature certainly, given that I can safely bet none of them are tied up in gang life, but then again this video isn't aimed at the intellectuals of the panth.

[jashb]

On 5/3/2018 at 1:19 AM, MahadrasSingh said:

I'm thinking Nattan ji wasn't intending to produce a music video that would be deep or invoke insightful messages but the way he just fully embraced the gang wale look and didn't show reasons to why they would take up arms annoys me, but I'm in this weird position where I like how it ticks off Canadian media but I knowit very well antagonises us in the public eye but then if we played to their eye would we not be the khalsa and oh my mind's a mess WJKK WJKF.

The video could certainly have been made A LOT more informative.

There was a whole wealth of information that could have accompanied the video that could have explained the armed struggle to the lay person.

Recorded statements like those passed by balram kutha jakhar, the 8th speaker of lok sabha no less, pertaining to the Sikh Genocide could have been presented. Facts and figures about the genocide of 1984 could have been given. Figures of the Sikh contribution to the struggle for freedom from Britain could also have been provided to contrast with the treatment Sikhs received immediately from 1947. Bhai Sahib Bhai Kapoor Singh Ji's Sachi Sakhi is a treasure box of information on the subject.

Images of indian state torture victims could have been included to show the depraved acts of terror Sikhs suffered at the hands of agents of the indian government during this period, in what was almost always illegal custody, that for some continues without charge even to today (Jaggi is the tip of an iceberg).

E.g. How Sikh babies were set on fire and even fed to kingdoms of ants by indian police officers just to end the bloodline of certain families. How Pregnant women were killed just so they wouldn't give birth to a Sikh child. How Singhs like Bhai Gurdev Singh Debu Ji were boiled alive in police stations just like Shaheed Bhai Dayala Ji.

How the panth's daughters were gang raped by indian police kuthey like gobind ram in broad daylight and the pind was rounded up and forced to watch. How the jails of mir mannu were resurrected under the directions of kachi dilli darbar. How whole families were wiped out, yet india just went by its business like nothing happened.

Tyrants like abdali would have been proud of the systematic genocide of Sikhs. A little research would have revealed names and locations of the victims, there were so many that it is baffling such information is not provided routinely in videos that touch upon the subject of the Sikh Genocide, there are plenty of Amnesty cases on Panjaab that the lay person could be inspired to look up.

Factual information regarding what forced Sikhs to start the morcha for their rights in india in the first place is also totally missing.

E.g. the loot of panjaab's river waters that continues to today, continued denial of the semi-independent status of the Sikh homeland that was promised to the Sikhs in 1946, article 25 that even denies the independent existence of Sikhi. The blatant discrimination of denial of state language status to saadi pavitar maa boli Panjaabi for decades despite the fact that every other state was granted its local state language. Only for dilli darbar to eventually carve out haryana and himachal out of Panjaab, whilst passing entire swathes of Panjabi majority areas to non-Panjabi administrations.

The enactment of TADA, the unconstitutional "law" specifically designed to be enforced on the state of Panjaab in order to suspend the most basic and fundamental human right that any human being can expect of their government - THE RIGHT TO LIFE - enabling the indian government to summarily execute Sikhs for the simple crime of being Sikh, without having to go through the formalities of detention, trial or even charge, providing the butchers of Panjaab, kachi sarkar the ability to systematically cut the panth down to size. Providing the indian punjab police and crpf the freedom to kill thousands upon thousands of Sikhs at will since 1984.

The numerous, dozens of link canals that have been dug up in the blink of an eye since 1947 from Satluj to divert river waters to rajasthan and haryana and deprive Panjaab of its only natural resource without compensation of even an anna to Panjaab. (SYL wasn't even the tip of an iceberg, yet some of our people seem to think stopping that has stopped the loot of our river waters. Think again.)

The reduction to destitute beggars of a proud kaum by deliberate centralised policies of keeping Panjaab under-educated and reliant on agriculture.

Then the failure of the indian government even to provide a sustainable price for the crop it procures by force - a pitiful fraction of the international going market rate at any time - not even allowing farmers to market their produce privately but instead banning them from private enterprise, and even the blatant in-your-face discrimination of throwing Panjabi farmers the pittance of a rate as low as half the price for the staple crop that it pays to those outside Panjaab in neighbouring rajasthan and haryana!

Deliberately overlooking the superior educated potential youth workforce of Panjaab in favour of the unpadh backwater of haryana for mass industrialisation in order that Panjaab's economy remains dependent on state controlled agriculture.

How the deliberate failure to provide the farmers a fair price for their crop has led to the curtailment of the growth of the panth by forcing farmers to have smaller families in order to have enough to provide a half-decent yet astronomically priced private education to their child, since teachers are non-existent or useless in Panjaab's sarkari schools. How the continued discrimination against Panjabi farmers since 1947 has led them into the vicious cycle of continued debt, drug addiction, and eventually suicide in order to escape such a wretched existence.

The counter argument would be as to how much can you fit into a three minute music video. That point might be partially valid, but I would disagree. The video is almost completely devoid of factual information, so at least a start should have been made.

Overall, the video is more than a decent effort as a starting point, and is miles better than the gundh being pumped out in the name of "kalakari" in Panjaab. Its main downfall is that it is completely missing accompanying information which would have done a lot better justice to the song.

Hopefully, if these Singhs make another music video, they will make it much more informative to the lay person.

[jkvlondon]

OK this is video for der yoof who know next to zip about 84  or Khalistan

1. It's a fail on one major level because it doesn't highlight the continuous struggles and victories from time of Guru Har Gobind ji and linking that spirit of Garja Singh ji and  Bota Singh ji to 78, 84 until now . If they did this der yoof might want to investigate who these Singhs and events were about and realise what they were missing out on . (inferiority complex finished)

2. They are kind of losing their niarapan by monkeying the 'gangsta' uniform and preoccupations with ak47s , a tweak is needed to bring it to sikh ethos

3. Maybe they hope to be the new dhadis on the block  Waheguru only knows  but if so they need to bring their A game because this wasn't  JOSH  inducing enough .

4. subtitles  may help those youth who don't know punjabi at all (sadly too many) and also new sikhs from other cultures.

5. maybe interleaving Sant ji's bachan to the youth on preparedness  especially the one about not waiting for Him to give permission to deal with dusht.

An OK starting point but needs more depth to have better impact

[MisterrSingh]

Gangsta culture is as alien to us as Punjabi culture is alien to black gangstas. So why do we emulate their ways?