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Why is there ritualism in Sikhism?


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So yes, its been 3 years since I came on this forum, I have become more and more interested in my Sikhi, and such, but I have realized that we are doing some things that Sikhism told us not to do. For example, not to have idols, and stones, and just worship to the formless god, yet we have portraits of our Guru's, and in some homes, we do mathadek to them. Isn't this a forum of ritualism where we think the Guru's are holy in someway, yet Guru Nanak said that he wasn't special he was the Humble Servant of God, yet we bow down to the pictures of them. Isn't god formless and that he is everywhere.

 

ਦਸੇ ਦਿਸਾ ਰਵਿਆ ਪ੝ਰਭ੝ ਝਕ੝ ॥ ਧਰਨਿ ਅਕਾਸ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਪ੝ਰਭ ਪੇਖ੝ ॥

Ḏasė ḝisĝ ravi­ĝ parabẖ ėk. Ḏẖaran akĝs sabẖ meh parabẖ pėkẖ.
The One God is diffused in the ten directions. Behold God in all the earth and sky.

ਜਲ ਥਲ ਬਨ ਪਰਬਤ ਪਾਤਾਲ ॥ ਪਰਮੇਸ੝ਵਰ ਤਹ ਬਸਹਿ ਦਇਆਲ ॥
Jal thal ban parbaṯ pĝṯĝl. Parmėsvar ṯah baseh ḝa­i­ĝl.
In the water, on the land, in the forests and mountains, and in the nether regions of the underworld, the Merciful Transcendent Lord is abiding.

ਸੂਖਮ ਅਸਥੂਲ ਸਗਲ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਗ੝ਰਮ੝ਖਿ ਬ੝ਰਹਮ੝ ਪਛਾਨ ॥੧੪॥
Sūkẖam asthūl sagal bẖagvĝn. Nĝnak gurmukẖ barahm pacẖẖĝn.॥14॥
The Lord God is in all mind and matter, subtle and manifest. O Nanak, the Gurmukh realizes God. ॥14॥

sggs page 299

Here is another issue, in the news, people often consider Sikh's travel to Pakistan as "Sikh Pilgrims", in Sikhism, but we are not. I notice that when I go to the Gurdwara people often walk around the Guru Granth Sahib as some sort of ritual. I noticed it today, I just followed my father and walked around the Guru Granth sahib, clockwise which seems fishy..  Its like a Hindu tradition of walking around the fire which is ritualism and a superstition which is against Sikhi, well its called Lavan I reckon which they do in weddings. This is concerning as Sikhism prohibits these type of things, and I am having a feeling that certain cultural influences are leaking into Sikhism. For example, there have been reports of idols, of Guru Nanak in markets and such. This is really concerning, and I hope there will be a way to solve this issue.

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11 minutes ago, CanadianSingh said:

So yes, its been 3 years since I came on this forum, I have become more and more interested in my Sikhi,

Great to hear that, hope to see more of you on the forum.

12 minutes ago, CanadianSingh said:

but I have realized that we are doing some things that Sikhism told us not to do.

That's good, but I would want to warn you that some people fall into the mistake of thinking that they have realized the Truth of Sikhism, and everybody for the last 500 years has been doing it wrong. I would urge you not to fall into that trap.

13 minutes ago, CanadianSingh said:

yet we have portraits of our Guru's, and in some homes, we do mathadek to them.

I would not say that mere paintings of the Gurus should be banned, but you're right that some foolish Sikhs do bow to them, and they should absolutely not.

Mostly, these are people who don't have a single gutka in the house. If you have a gutka, place it on a high shelf, and you can bow and do ardas while facing it.

15 minutes ago, CanadianSingh said:

 Isn't this a forum of ritualism where we think the Guru's are holy in someway,

Instead of "ritualism" I think you might mean to say "idol worship". Anyways, not it's not idol worship to think the Gurus are holy in some way.

The Gurus are holy. Forget the Guru, even those who merely serve the Guru are holy, and so are their parents:

ਧਨੁ ਜਨਨੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਾਇਆ ਧੰਨੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥

Dhhan Jananee Jin Jaaeiaa Dhhann Pithaa Paradhhaan ||

Blessed is the mother who gave birth; blessed and respected is the father of one who serves the True Guru and finds peace.

ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਗਇਆ ਗੁਮਾਨੁ ॥

Sathagur Saev Sukh Paaeiaa Vichahu Gaeiaa Gumaan ||

His arrogant pride is banished from within.

ਦਰਿ ਸੇਵਨਿ ਸੰਤ ਜਨ ਖੜੇ ਪਾਇਨਿ ਗੁਣੀ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥੧॥

Dhar Saevan Santh Jan Kharrae Paaein Gunee Nidhhaan ||1||

Standing at the Lord's Door, the humble Saints serve Him; they find the Treasure of Excellence. ||1||

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੩) (੪੯) ੧:੩ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੨ ਪੰ. ੧੩ 
Sri Raag Guru Amar Das

 

So, if the mere servants of the Guru are holy, how holy do you think the Guru himself would be? Answer: Pure holiness.

Not only are the Gurus holy, their parents and their lineage is holy, too:

ਸਾ ਧਰਤੀ ਭਈ ਹਰੀਆਵਲੀ ਜਿਥੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਬੈਠਾ ਆਇ ॥

Saa Dhharathee Bhee Hareeaavalee Jithhai Maeraa Sathigur Baithaa Aae ||

That land, where my True Guru comes and sits, becomes green and fertile.

ਸੇ ਜੰਤ ਭਏ ਹਰੀਆਵਲੇ ਜਿਨੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥

Sae Janth Bheae Hareeaavalae Jinee Maeraa Sathigur Dhaekhiaa Jaae ||

Those beings who go and behold my True Guru are rejuvenated.

ਧਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਧਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਕੁਲੁ ਧਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਸੁ ਜਨਨੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਜਣਿਆ ਮਾਇ ॥

Dhhan Dhhann Pithaa Dhhan Dhhann Kul Dhhan Dhhan S Jananee Jin Guroo Janiaa Maae ||

Blessed, blessed is the father; blessed, blessed is the family; blessed, blessed is the mother, who gave birth to the Guru.

ਧਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਜਿਨਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਰਾਧਿਆ ਆਪਿ ਤਰਿਆ ਜਿਨੀ ਡਿਠਾ ਤਿਨਾ ਲਏ ਛਡਾਇ ॥

Dhhan Dhhann Guroo Jin Naam Araadhhiaa Aap Thariaa Jinee Ddithaa Thinaa Leae Shhaddaae ||

Blessed, blessed is the Guru, who worships and adores the Naam; He saves Himself, and emancipates those who see Him.

ਹਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਲਹੁ ਦਇਆ ਕਰਿ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੋਵੈ ਪਾਇ ॥੨॥

Har Sathigur Maelahu Dhaeiaa Kar Jan Naanak Dhhovai Paae ||2||

O Lord, be kind, and unite me with the True Guru, that servant Nanak may wash His feet. ||2||

ਗਉੜੀ ਵਾਰ¹ (ਮਃ ੪) (੧੭) ਸ. (੪) ੨:੫ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੧੦ ਪੰ. ੮ 
Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das

 

Now, if Guru Nanak Dev ji were to appear right now in front of you, would you matha tek and wash their feet? If so, great. If not, sorry to say, bro, but you don't have the level of devotion and love that a Sikh is supposed to have. It say right there in Gurbani that a Sikh's mentality is of a humble servant wanting to wash the Guru's feet.

26 minutes ago, CanadianSingh said:

Guru Nanak said that he wasn't special he was the Humble Servant of God, yet we bow down to the pictures of them.

You're confusing two different things. We're not supposed to bow down to pictures of Guru Sahib, we're suppose to bow down to the actual Guru Sahib (currently Guru Granth Sahib ji).

At the same time, the fact that Guru Nanak ji say they were not special means nothing.

That's what Christian missionaries say. They say that since Guru Nanak ji called themselves "neech", therefore he was lowly. No, Guru Sahib was not lowly. Guru Sahib only called themselves lowly out of humility, which is a Gurmat virtue.

Guru Nank Dev ji was and is Satguru. Satguru is everything. Satguru is God. Satguru is the creator. Satguru is the grantor of wishes and boons. He is the grantor of spiritual bliss.

Satguru Nanak ji is not "nothing special".

 

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40 minutes ago, CanadianSingh said:

Isn't this a forum of ritualism where we think the Guru's are holy in someway, yet Guru Nanak said that he wasn't special he was the Humble Servant of God, yet we bow down to the pictures of them. Isn't god formless and that he is everywhere.

In order to advance the conversation, can I ask whether you bow down to Guru Granth Sahib ji, like every other Sikh does?

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3 minutes ago, BhForce said:

In order to advance the conversation, can I ask whether you bow down to Guru Granth Sahib ji, like every other Sikh does?

Well, not going to lie, yeah, I do it as every other Sikh. I mean, we can bow down to anywhere we want in my opinion, I mean god is everywhere it's not in a certain direction, but everywhere. I mean when we bow down we gave humility or submission to god in a sense, but, yes I do bow down.

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1 hour ago, CanadianSingh said:

Guru Nanak said that he wasn't special he was the Humble Servant of God

Again, this was for humility. Anyways, before we talk about other stuff you said, you need to reflect on and acknowledge the status of Guru in Sikhism. Read the following verses with humility and purity of mind:

 

ਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਸਮਰਥੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥

Gur Dhaathaa Samarathh Gur Gur Sabh Mehi Rehiaa Samaae ||

The Guru is the Giver, the Guru is All-powerful. The Guru is All-pervading, contained amongst all.

ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਡੁਬਦਾ ਲਏ ਤਰਾਇ ॥੨॥

Gur Paramaesar Paarabreham Gur Ddubadhaa Leae Tharaae ||2||

The Guru is the Transcendent Lord, the Supreme Lord God. The Guru lifts up and saves those who are drowning. ||2||

ਕਿਤੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਕਰਣ ਕਾਰਣ ਸਮਰਥੁ ॥

Kith Mukh Gur Saalaaheeai Karan Kaaran Samarathh ||

How shall I praise the Guru, the All-powerful Cause of causes?

ਸੇ ਮਥੇ ਨਿਹਚਲ ਰਹੇ ਜਿਨ ਗੁਰਿ ਧਾਰਿਆ ਹਥੁ ॥

Sae Mathhae Nihachal Rehae Jin Gur Dhhaariaa Hathh ||

Those, upon whose foreheads the Guru has placed His Hand, remain steady and stable.

ਗੁਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਪੀਆਲਿਆ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਕਾ ਪਥੁ ॥

Gur Anmrith Naam Peeaaliaa Janam Maran Kaa Pathh ||

The Guru has led me to drink in the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of the Lord; He has released me from the cycle of birth and death.

ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਭੈ ਭੰਜਨੁ ਦੁਖ ਲਥੁ ॥੩॥

Gur Paramaesar Saeviaa Bhai Bhanjan Dhukh Lathh ||3||

I serve the Guru, the Transcendent Lord, the Dispeller of fear; my suffering has been taken away. ||3||

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੫) (੯੦) ੩:੪ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੧੯ 
Sri Raag Guru Arjan Dev

 

Again:

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੫੨ 

ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਪੂਜੀਐ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਲਾਇ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥

Gur Paramaesur Poojeeai Man Than Laae Piaar ||

Worship the Guru, the Transcendent Lord, with your mind and body attuned to love.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਕਾ ਸਭਸੈ ਦੇਇ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥

Sathigur Dhaathaa Jeea Kaa Sabhasai Dhaee Adhhaar ||

The True Guru is the Giver of the soul; He gives Support to all.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਚਨ ਕਮਾਵਣੇ ਸਚਾ ਏਹੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

Sathigur Bachan Kamaavanae Sachaa Eaehu Veechaar ||

Act according to the Instructions of the True Guru; this is the true philosophy.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਰਤਿਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਸਭੁ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੧॥

Bin Saadhhoo Sangath Rathiaa Maaeiaa Mohu Sabh Shhaar ||1||

Without being attuned to the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, all attachment to Maya is just dust. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਸਾਜਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥

Maerae Saajan Har Har Naam Samaal ||

O my friend, reflect upon the Name of the Lord, Har, Har

ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਪੂਰਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਘਾਲ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Saadhhoo Sangath Man Vasai Pooran Hovai Ghaal ||1|| Rehaao ||

. In the Saadh Sangat, He dwells within the mind, and one's works are brought to perfect fruition. ||1||Pause||

ਗੁਰੁ ਸਮਰਥੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥

Gur Samarathh Apaar Gur Vaddabhaagee Dharasan Hoe ||

The Guru is All-powerful, the Guru is Infinite. By great good fortune, the Blessed Vision of His Darshan is obtained.

ਗੁਰੁ ਅਗੋਚਰੁ ਨਿਰਮਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

Gur Agochar Niramalaa Gur Jaevadd Avar N Koe ||

The Guru is Imperceptible, Immaculate and Pure. There is no other as great as the Guru.

ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਣਹਾਰੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਚੀ ਸੋਇ ॥

Gur Karathaa Gur Karanehaar Guramukh Sachee Soe ||

The Guru is the Creator, the Guru is the Doer. The Gurmukh obtains true glory.

ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਕੀਤਾ ਲੋੜੇ ਸੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥

Gur Thae Baahar Kishh Nehee Gur Keethaa Lorrae S Hoe ||2||

Nothing is beyond the Guru; whatever He wishes comes to pass. ||2||

ਗੁਰੁ ਤੀਰਥੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਜਾਤੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਮਨਸਾ ਪੂਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥

Gur Theerathh Gur Paarajaath Gur Manasaa Pooranehaar ||

The Guru is the Sacred Shrine of Pilgrimage, the Guru is the Wish-fulfilling Elysian Tree.

ਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇਇ ਉਧਰੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥

Gur Dhaathaa Har Naam Dhaee Oudhharai Sabh Sansaar ||

The Guru is the Fulfiller of the desires of the mind. The Guru is the Giver of the Name of the Lord, by which all the world is saved.

ਗੁਰੁ ਸਮਰਥੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਊਚਾ ਅਗਮ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥

Gur Samarathh Gur Nirankaar Gur Oochaa Agam Apaar ||

The Guru is All-powerful, the Guru is Formless; the Guru is Lofty, Inaccessible and Infinite.

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਅਗਮ ਹੈ ਕਿਆ ਕਥੇ ਕਥਨਹਾਰੁ ॥੩॥

Gur Kee Mehimaa Agam Hai Kiaa Kathhae Kathhanehaar ||3||

The Praise of the Guru is so sublime-what can any speaker say? ||3||

ਜਿਤੜੇ ਫਲ ਮਨਿ ਬਾਛੀਅਹਿ ਤਿਤੜੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪਾਸਿ ॥

Jitharrae Fal Man Baashheeahi Thitharrae Sathigur Paas ||

All the rewards which the mind desires are with the True Guru.

ਪੂਰਬ ਲਿਖੇ ਪਾਵਣੇ ਸਾਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇ ਰਾਸਿ ॥

Poorab Likhae Paavanae Saach Naam Dhae Raas ||

One whose destiny is so pre-ordained, obtains the Wealth of the True Name.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣੀ ਆਇਆਂ ਬਾਹੁੜਿ ਨਹੀ ਬਿਨਾਸੁ ॥

Sathigur Saranee Aaeiaaan Baahurr Nehee Binaas ||

Entering the Sanctuary of the True Guru, you shall never die again.

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਵਿਸਰਉ ਏਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਸਾਸੁ ॥੪॥੨੯॥੯੯॥

Har Naanak Kadhae N Visaro Eaehu Jeeo Pindd Thaeraa Saas ||4||29||99||

Nanak: may I never forget You, Lord. This soul, body and breath are Yours. ||4||29||99||

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੫) (੯੯) ੪:੪ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੫੨ ਪੰ. ੧੮ 
Sri Raag Guru Arjan Dev

 

Gurbani clearly states above that we are to worship Guru and God. Do you acknowledge we are called to worship the Guru?

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44 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Again, this was for humility. Anyways, before we talk about other stuff you said, you need to reflect on and acknowledge the status of Guru in Sikhism. Read the following verses with humility and purity of mind:

 

ਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਸਮਰਥੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥

Gur Dhaathaa Samarathh Gur Gur Sabh Mehi Rehiaa Samaae ||

The Guru is the Giver, the Guru is All-powerful. The Guru is All-pervading, contained amongst all.

ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਡੁਬਦਾ ਲਏ ਤਰਾਇ ॥੨॥

Gur Paramaesar Paarabreham Gur Ddubadhaa Leae Tharaae ||2||

The Guru is the Transcendent Lord, the Supreme Lord God. The Guru lifts up and saves those who are drowning. ||2||

ਕਿਤੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਕਰਣ ਕਾਰਣ ਸਮਰਥੁ ॥

Kith Mukh Gur Saalaaheeai Karan Kaaran Samarathh ||

How shall I praise the Guru, the All-powerful Cause of causes?

ਸੇ ਮਥੇ ਨਿਹਚਲ ਰਹੇ ਜਿਨ ਗੁਰਿ ਧਾਰਿਆ ਹਥੁ ॥

Sae Mathhae Nihachal Rehae Jin Gur Dhhaariaa Hathh ||

Those, upon whose foreheads the Guru has placed His Hand, remain steady and stable.

ਗੁਰਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਨਾਮੁ ਪੀਆਲਿਆ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਕਾ ਪਥੁ ॥

Gur Anmrith Naam Peeaaliaa Janam Maran Kaa Pathh ||

The Guru has led me to drink in the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of the Lord; He has released me from the cycle of birth and death.

ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਭੈ ਭੰਜਨੁ ਦੁਖ ਲਥੁ ॥੩॥

Gur Paramaesar Saeviaa Bhai Bhanjan Dhukh Lathh ||3||

I serve the Guru, the Transcendent Lord, the Dispeller of fear; my suffering has been taken away. ||3||

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੫) (੯੦) ੩:੪ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੧੯ 
Sri Raag Guru Arjan Dev

 

Again:

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੫੨ 

ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਪੂਜੀਐ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਲਾਇ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥

Gur Paramaesur Poojeeai Man Than Laae Piaar ||

Worship the Guru, the Transcendent Lord, with your mind and body attuned to love.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਕਾ ਸਭਸੈ ਦੇਇ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥

Sathigur Dhaathaa Jeea Kaa Sabhasai Dhaee Adhhaar ||

The True Guru is the Giver of the soul; He gives Support to all.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਚਨ ਕਮਾਵਣੇ ਸਚਾ ਏਹੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

Sathigur Bachan Kamaavanae Sachaa Eaehu Veechaar ||

Act according to the Instructions of the True Guru; this is the true philosophy.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਰਤਿਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਸਭੁ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੧॥

Bin Saadhhoo Sangath Rathiaa Maaeiaa Mohu Sabh Shhaar ||1||

Without being attuned to the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, all attachment to Maya is just dust. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਸਾਜਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥

Maerae Saajan Har Har Naam Samaal ||

O my friend, reflect upon the Name of the Lord, Har, Har

ਸਾਧੂ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਪੂਰਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਘਾਲ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Saadhhoo Sangath Man Vasai Pooran Hovai Ghaal ||1|| Rehaao ||

. In the Saadh Sangat, He dwells within the mind, and one's works are brought to perfect fruition. ||1||Pause||

ਗੁਰੁ ਸਮਰਥੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥

Gur Samarathh Apaar Gur Vaddabhaagee Dharasan Hoe ||

The Guru is All-powerful, the Guru is Infinite. By great good fortune, the Blessed Vision of His Darshan is obtained.

ਗੁਰੁ ਅਗੋਚਰੁ ਨਿਰਮਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

Gur Agochar Niramalaa Gur Jaevadd Avar N Koe ||

The Guru is Imperceptible, Immaculate and Pure. There is no other as great as the Guru.

ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਣਹਾਰੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਚੀ ਸੋਇ ॥

Gur Karathaa Gur Karanehaar Guramukh Sachee Soe ||

The Guru is the Creator, the Guru is the Doer. The Gurmukh obtains true glory.

ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਕੀਤਾ ਲੋੜੇ ਸੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥

Gur Thae Baahar Kishh Nehee Gur Keethaa Lorrae S Hoe ||2||

Nothing is beyond the Guru; whatever He wishes comes to pass. ||2||

ਗੁਰੁ ਤੀਰਥੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਜਾਤੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਮਨਸਾ ਪੂਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥

Gur Theerathh Gur Paarajaath Gur Manasaa Pooranehaar ||

The Guru is the Sacred Shrine of Pilgrimage, the Guru is the Wish-fulfilling Elysian Tree.

ਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇਇ ਉਧਰੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥

Gur Dhaathaa Har Naam Dhaee Oudhharai Sabh Sansaar ||

The Guru is the Fulfiller of the desires of the mind. The Guru is the Giver of the Name of the Lord, by which all the world is saved.

ਗੁਰੁ ਸਮਰਥੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਊਚਾ ਅਗਮ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥

Gur Samarathh Gur Nirankaar Gur Oochaa Agam Apaar ||

The Guru is All-powerful, the Guru is Formless; the Guru is Lofty, Inaccessible and Infinite.

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਅਗਮ ਹੈ ਕਿਆ ਕਥੇ ਕਥਨਹਾਰੁ ॥੩॥

Gur Kee Mehimaa Agam Hai Kiaa Kathhae Kathhanehaar ||3||

The Praise of the Guru is so sublime-what can any speaker say? ||3||

ਜਿਤੜੇ ਫਲ ਮਨਿ ਬਾਛੀਅਹਿ ਤਿਤੜੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪਾਸਿ ॥

Jitharrae Fal Man Baashheeahi Thitharrae Sathigur Paas ||

All the rewards which the mind desires are with the True Guru.

ਪੂਰਬ ਲਿਖੇ ਪਾਵਣੇ ਸਾਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇ ਰਾਸਿ ॥

Poorab Likhae Paavanae Saach Naam Dhae Raas ||

One whose destiny is so pre-ordained, obtains the Wealth of the True Name.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣੀ ਆਇਆਂ ਬਾਹੁੜਿ ਨਹੀ ਬਿਨਾਸੁ ॥

Sathigur Saranee Aaeiaaan Baahurr Nehee Binaas ||

Entering the Sanctuary of the True Guru, you shall never die again.

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਵਿਸਰਉ ਏਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਸਾਸੁ ॥੪॥੨੯॥੯੯॥

Har Naanak Kadhae N Visaro Eaehu Jeeo Pindd Thaeraa Saas ||4||29||99||

Nanak: may I never forget You, Lord. This soul, body and breath are Yours. ||4||29||99||

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੫) (੯੯) ੪:੪ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੫੨ ਪੰ. ੧੮ 
Sri Raag Guru Arjan Dev

 

Gurbani clearly states above that we are to worship Guru and God. Do you acknowledge we are called to worship the Guru?

Like actually worship the 10 guru's? Or only Guru Granth Sahib? No, I never knew to worship the Guru, but to meditate on god, yeah.

12

 

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10 minutes ago, CanadianSingh said:

Gurbani clearly states above that we are to worship Guru and God. Do you acknowledge we are called to worship the Guru?

Like actually worship the 10 guru's? Or only Guru Granth Sahib? No, I never knew to worship the Guru, but to meditate on god, yeah.

12

Bro, there's no need to quote a whole long post if you're just replying to a single sentence.

Anyway, yes, actually worship the 10 Gurus, and also Guru Granth Sahib. It's the same thing. Guru Nanak ji = Guru Gobind Singh ji = Guru Granth Sahib.

So, to continue the conversation, do you or do you not acknowledge that we are commanded to worship the Guru? 

Or, if you want to get into definitions, fine, define worship. Or if you don't want to use that English word, the actual word used in Gurbani is pooja. So do you acknowledge to we are to do pooja of Guru Sahib?

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3 hours ago, CanadianSingh said:

Well, not going to lie, yeah, I do it as every other Sikh. I mean, we can bow down to anywhere we want in my opinion, I mean god is everywhere it's not in a certain direction, but everywhere. I mean when we bow down we gave humility or submission to god in a sense, but, yes I do bow down.

Keep searching Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to find where Guru Sahib says to bow down to him.

The Gurbani you provided says Vaheguru is everywhere. You took this truthful Bani lesson from Guru Nanak dev ji.  Yet you are turning around and saying don't bow down to the Guru who gave you this truthful Bani.  Any person can make up any statements about Vaheguru. But all the statements will be only opinions because it is not being given directly from Vaheguru to the person. A person can come along and say Vaheguru is everywhere and it will not be a true statement because the person is only making a guess and does not know with certainty. The teacher can't see Vaheguru. However if a Sikh is told by a non sikh, God is everywhere.  The Sikh will say dhan Satguru (true master) Sri Guru Nanak dev ji taught this and its only true for me because I received this teaching from the Guru.  The nonsikh is still in the dark because hes only repeating or making his own judgements without any faith in Dhan Satguru Nanak dev ji/Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  When Sri Guru Nanak dev ji spoke Gurbani, he was not making guesses but is Akal Purakh himself. Same goes as he wrote Gurbani down and gave Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji teaches to the world. Gurbani also says Guru Nanak dev ji is the GURU and NIRANKAR (Vaheguru).  

If you never have heard or read Gurbani, how do you know what is a true statement about Vaheguru or not? Take the vedas for example.  What in there is true and false?  We humans don't know.  We can only see the Naam radiating from everywhere in creation when we are blessed by Dhan Sri Guru Nanak dev ji.    It is only after Sri Guru Nanak dev ji coming to this world did we receive the truth and now we can separate what is Gurmat and manmat.  

Going around Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is also a virtues deed.  It brings the teaching of the Guru is the main focus of my life.  

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In short, Gurmat supports both:

1. Sarguna/shabad -Personal God- personification/devotion/ glorification of personal God/Guru-Sri guru granth sahib ji, sri dasam granth sahib, shastars-see nine types of bhagti, history)

2. Nirguna (impersonal God all prevading Vahiguru by concentrating on shabad via abhyaas/ meditation, contemplating and abiding on wisdom-gyan of gurbani and one spontaneously naturally- abiding, living and being, Jot saroop- Non dual all pervading Awareness- Vahiguru operating or living from natural way of being.

This is to help all seekers who are at various different phases of spirituality or state in their life without loosing main aim of merging back in Vahiguru( Gobind Millan ki eh teri bariya)/ Man tu jot saroop hai apna mool painchain || 

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