Sikhi the only way?

[Pheena]

giving gurbani lines and not having a thorough understanding of them is not something i would call gurmat...

giving gurbani lines that someone interprets in a certain way to make their view of things correct is not something i would call gurmat...

but then again...i wouldn't call anything anti-gurmat either...i think its one of the most annoying recent trends that have begun...we seem to think everything is black or white...either gurmat or anti gurmat....

but that's simply cannot be the way...just look at all the naam abhiyaasi gurmukhs sikhi has produced...i can say having read about their jeevans that they all had slightly different ways of doing things..followed differing rehits...yet all were absorbed in naaam...and then we have our generation kids going around telling people what is gurmat....

anyhow...

i'd like to comment on the gurbani tuks provided by khalsapreet veerji...

the first shabad in which you provided...the last line i assume is what you wanted us to look at...(forgive me if i'm wrong)...however ..its an amazing shabad...i think bhai randhir singh ji talks about that shabad in one of his books...in a different context though...

however the last line...if we look at it...it's easy to just assume that oh..kabir ji must be saying that the koran is wrong, that the bible is wrong that the vedas are wrong....YET it doesn't say that they are WRONG...i'm sure if guru ji wanted to say that he wou

ld have explicitly said that...

for me...that tuk says to forget what is written and ONLY be absorbed in naaam ...in loving meditation of the lord....in fact that tuk gives us valuable advice for us sikhs in today's world... there are some of us who think by reading gurbani only we will reach guru ji...but that's not true...reading gurbani gives us the instructions on how to live..it tells us to meditate...but if i don't put any of it into practice in my life then me reading gurbani my whole life isn't going to do anything...and trust me...i've seen this personally...

likewise kabir ji is giving advice to the people of THAT time to let go of the books, cuz god isn't realized by only reading and reciting...god is realized by deep, loving contemplation....

again..this is what my heart tells me about the meaning of that tuk....i'm not a scholar of gurbani...i feel the meanings that come to my heart....

the second shabad...the tuks that you have highlighted....i do not disagree at all...it is gurbani....at teh same time...i don't see that as proof of sikhi being the only way...the TRUE GURU for US sikhs is guru granth sahib ji...nowhere in that whole shabad does it say that there is only ONE true guru...for people of other faiths it could be someone else...

for Kabir ji...his guru was ramanand....

for parmahansa yogananada his guru was Lahiri mahsa....

we must remember one thing (i feel) when we read gurbani...that is GURU ji is talking directly to us...and when we look at meanings...we have to see what does that meaning have to do with me at this time?...what is guru ji trying to tell me?...when he talks about people reading the vedas and not getting anything out of them...waht does it have to do with me??...for me that answer is...guru ji is telling me ..."hey sikha...don't just read gurbani...read gurbani...and then implement it in your life.."

as one gurmukh i knew always said....people loving reading gurbani and saying..."see.

.that's what's wrong with such and such person.."...we must read gurbani in context of our own lives....

Couldn't have said it better bro. Well Said Piyario

Waheguru

[simmal tree]

vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefatheh!!!

most people agree on that his guru was ramanand...even in his gurbani..he talks about japping raam

Bhai sahib jee, the bani from Guru Granth Sahib jee from Mahala 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9.. they all use the phrase "raam" in reference to simran. That does not mean their gurmantar was raam. HOwever I would like to drop out of this discussion because it's not decided by the panth. Please forgive my mistakes.

With regard to the rest of the post,

Bhai sahib ji I know that Guru Sahib has come in different "vays" or forms, but the whole time it has always been the same Guru Sahib.

If you need water for survival, it is so much more useful to go to the source yourself, than to take water from a pot of somebody who has just come from the source.

Prophets come and go, they bring their pots of water (truth).

Guru Sahib is the ocean.

one last comment :

Pheena Veerjee's post is beautiful. And I agree with his comment that we should not call other faiths bad or negative.

somebody might want to talk about guru sahib's hukam in gurbani that says:

" baedh kathaeb kehahu math jhoot(h)ae jhoot(h)aa jo n bichaarai ||"

Interestingly this shabad is also by Bhagat Kabir Jee who says that those who DON'T follow Bayd and Katayb are the best riders to the real heaven.

There

is a pattern here though.

This shabad says that the Bayds and kataybs, do not call them false - call that person false who doesn't reflect on their teachings.

In my humble and lame and non-professional opinion, I think this is said to mean that the root teachings of all faiths are the same.

I regularly watch Pastor Creflo Dollar on Vision TV and Pastor John Burns on Channel M and their inspirational speeches on Christianity remind me of Sikhi.

However when it comes to giaan vidya, gurmat, you cannot get that from those teachings.

Bhagat Kabir Ji says, dont call other religions false. Their root is the same as Gurmat. However, the ones who follow Gurmat instead of the other religions are the best riders to the real heaven (Sach Khand).

Guru Sahib has said "simritt saastr bayd sabhai bahu bhayd kahain ham ayk na jaanyo"

Bhayd is a secret. The sacred texts of all the other religions give secrets and teachings - Guru Sahib says that he does not recognize these.

The essential lesson is - while the root of all religions is the same, their peripheral teachings have geared so far off the path of Gurmat that allegiance to them yeilds "kacha" results.

Kacha means unripe. If you eat a kacha fruit you will still get some nutrients, but not the full nutrients.

So in my post I do not intend to say that other faiths cannot help you reach high spiritual states. Right now I am in the state lower than a worm. Christians, Jews, Hindus and Muslims are higher than me. However, the highest "param padvee" is only attainable through Gurmat. Like Singh132 said, those religions can help you reach the epitome of their faith like heaven or paradise, but those are lower than Sach Khand.

please forgive my mistakes

vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefatheh!!!

[Pheena]

vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefatheh!!!

[

So in my post I do not intend to say that other faiths cannot help you reach high spiritual states. Right now I am in the state lower than a worm. Christians, Jews, Hindus and Muslims are higher than me. However, the highest "param padvee" is only attainable through Gurmat. Like Singh132 said, those religions can help you reach the epitome of their faith like heaven or paradise, but those are lower than Sach Khand.

vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefatheh!!!

What is SachKhand Veer?

"Sachkhand Vass-say Nirankaar" The Realm of Truth?? The True Residence of God?

[Balwinder Singh]

I heard it somewhere that Sach-Khand can be interpreted as,

SACH-god

KHAND- place to live.

So our body is sach khand because God resides in our body.Every religion tells us the path to identify the God within us. Gurbani is also inline with this philosiphy.

[immortalsingh]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

yes its true that sikhi is the only way out to save you from the deadly jamdoots

but to become sikh is not your choice

its Maharaj ji's choice

if THEY wish you to be THEIR beloved son

then forget about running elsewhere

no one has ever been able to escape such passionate love

but only the luckiest fellows are allowed here

you may be bad but not worse than KauDa Raakhsh who ultimately became a sikh

if you believe in God then pray to The Lord for guidance

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Jedi_Singh]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

How can it be Mahraj's choice, veerji? I don't understand, I mean you see many people converting into sikhi and sikhs converting to other religions, I mean some people can't feel pyaar for Sikhi, One time I met this white Sikh she use to be christian and she said that I just didn't feel love, when i got into sikhi I felt love, I felt guruji's pyaar, I have a friend who use to be a sikh and now is a christian, He believed that we should have choice to pick our religions, you know to pick a path you want to be on...

Is it the person's fault that they can't find the ultimate love for there guruji? I'm struggling, I'm trying to find the pyaar for Guruji but I can't, i've tried but I just don't feel it, is this my fault?

We should have the choice to pick our path,

[Guest JSS]

kulpreet singh....what's this giyaan you're talking about?...

yes...there's is giyaan in sikhi...but you TELL me what giyaan there is in sikhi that is not in the other religions?...

cuz i too listen to the christian preachers...i also listen to qwalis of bullay shah...i also read the East and West series published by followers of T.L Wasvani....

i also read books by Joel S. Goldsmith, also read poetry written by Walt Whitman......

and in all this reading and watching....i find that the basic GIYAAAN is the SAME...that is the only reason i would read these thiings....the only reason i read parmahansa yogananda's books are becasue in them i see the teachings of my guru ji also....the teaching of our guru ji's permeate through all these different religions....it's not the RELIGIONS fault that followers screw up....

but honestly i want to know this SECRET gurmat giyaan...cuz maaan...i've grown up in a very religious household with parents who live and breathe sikhi...and i've NEVER heard of this secret giyaan that's not available to my friends who are christians, hindus, muslims....

funny how 2000 years ago, jesus came down to teach the world humillity and love and today his followers go around telling people they are the best...

funny how mohammed came down to teach the world humility and love and today his followers say that he was the only true prophet...

funny how the jews were taught to be humble and loving and today they say they were the CHOSEN people....

i NEVER thought i'd add sikhi to that list....

but oh well...here it goes...

Funny how the SIKH gurus took ten lives (on top of lea

ving us with dhan dhan sri guru granth sahib ji) to teach us universal love and brotherhood...funny how they had friends who were both hindu and sikh....funny how the first brick layed at darbar sahib was done by a sufi saint...funny how darbar sahib's doors face four directions...funny how NOWHERE in guru granth sahib does it say that ONLY sikhs of guru sahib will be saven....YET...today we have people on this board and others saying how sikhi is the only way....vah vah vah....how many years did it take us to get here?...only 400 hundred years?...i'd hate to imagine what will happen in the next 400 years.....

also..i don't get what you mean by you know that gurus came in differnt forms and it's still the same guru....READ the gurbani tuk carefully....it doesn't say 10 forms...it says ANEK (as in countless) forms....

i really hope you reply and tell me what this giyaan is that you talk about...

[Pheena]

(Double Post )

[Pheena]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

How can it be Mahraj's choice, veerji? I don't understand, I mean you see many people converting into sikhi and sikhs converting to other religions, I mean some people can't feel pyaar for Sikhi, One time I met this white Sikh she use to be christian and she said that I just didn't feel love, when i got into sikhi I felt love, I felt guruji's pyaar, I have a friend who use to be a sikh and now is a christian, He believed that we should have choice to pick our religions, you know to pick a path you want to be on...

Is it the person's fault that they can't find the ultimate love for there guruji? I'm struggling, I'm trying to find the pyaar for Guruji but I can't, i've tried but I just don't feel it, is this my fault?

We should have the choice to pick our path, pray.gif

You wish to find the Love of God/Guru, Prayer is a solution, Pray now, Pray with every breath, every Molecule in your body, that he may bestow his love upon you. You cannot love him unless he bestows his grace upon you to make you capable of loving him.

HE ALONE CAN KNOW HIMSELF,

A

ND ONLY THE RAREST CAN DESCRIBE HIM;

HE BEQUEATHS THE QUALITY OF HIS STATE TO WHOMEVER HE CHOOSES.

NANAK SAYS, HE IS THE KING OF KINGS.

One last priceless thing in this sutra. Dhun-Nun was an Egyptian fakir. When he realized God he heard a voice in the skies which said, "Dhun Nun, before you set out in search of Me, I had already chosen you. Had I not, you would never have set out in search of Me."

Nanak says that He ordains the one He chooses with the quality to sing His praise. The fact is, you set out to seek Him only when He has knocked at your door. How can you set out on this tremendous quest all by yourself? How can you arrive at the idea of the quest, how can you acquire His remembrance, how can His praise be born within you, if He does not will it?

Then no matter how long it takes in the quest, the fact is that He has already chosen you. Your search has begun; He has already entered into your life. He has awakened the thirst within you and Nanak says: It is He alone who awakens the thirst for Him.

Nanak's method is: leave all to Him. Keep nothing in your hands because the arrogance of the ego can arise very subtly. You may begin to say, "I am a seeker, I am in quest of God." But Nanak, so that this I does not take root anywhere, says it is His grace that confers the quality to sing His praise. We can only sing Your praise if You will us to do so. How can we sing Your praise without Your direction? We cannot even raise our eyes towards You unless You give support to our vision. Our feet can never walk along Your path unless You direct them. We cannot think of You, or dream of You, or ponder over You, unless You have already chosen us.

Nanak plucks out all roots of the ego. Where ego is not, there His doors open to us; where ego is not, the resonance of Omkar starts on its own. Only because of the tumult and noise of your ego, can you not hear the faint resonance within.

It is his

Grace, his hand. His Wind(Love) that uses Your Sails(Heart) to carry you across. You can use peddles to carry you, you can use Gas Engines, all are limited by the use of either Gasoline or the energy of your body. Wind is his Love that carrys you across. The Sail is your heart that accepts his Love with Gratitude and pushes back. only when the Sail pushes back the Love with Love can teh boat move. Such is his love.

"Mayra Muj May Kush Nahi JO Kish Hai So Tayra" So what do you have in this world that is yours??

The Potential to love exists in every Man in the world, even the most evil. It is only Forgotten, the ability is only forgotten. The Seed has already been planted, it is up to us to Water that seed. So how do you water that seed, Vairraaaaaaaaaaaag....water it with your tears of Vairaag. Water it with your tears. Pray that he may darken the skies of your world from the Blazing Sun of Maya that has dried your heart and shower you with his love so the seed of love may sprout. Pray veer ji Pray, Pray Pray. Let the Prayer become your instrument of Vairraag. Let the Prayer become your meditation, Let Prayer become your medium. Let it not be a recited or a written down prayer, but that which is born from your heart at the moment.

"God helps those who help themselves"

Never Give up, Never, he always listens, Always. A child cries for his mother, the Mother may have 100 of things to do, but always hears the cry of her child. Always. It is we that get distracted by the world and forget about our Mother. We may forget about her, but she never Forgets Us. NEVER.

Besides the Quote this is only my view piyario, may you find it usefull in your quest. May he bless you with his Infinite Love. May he awaken that dormant seed of love within all of our hearts.

God bless you veer, God bless you....Waheguru, Dhan Guru Nanak, Waheguru, Waheguru. Waheguru.

Also have a read of this

" HE AND ONLY HE IS THE TRUE LORD. HE IS TRUTH -- SATNAM.

HE IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE. THOUGH ALL VANISH HIS REALITY WILL NEVER LEAVE.

HE CREATED MAYA -- THINGS OF VARIOUS COLORS AND EMOTIONS AND DISPOSITIONS.

HE CREATES ALL THINGS AND WATCHING OVER THEM, HE ALSO GIVES THEM GREATNESS.

What a wonderful thing Nanak has said. He says God makes the creation, and having made it, He looks at it, just as a painter paints a picture, then steps back a little to view his work. He observes it closely, he steps to the right and looks, steps to the left and looks again. Then he views it from a distance, then he takes it up to the window to scrutinize it in the light and in shadow. He examines it in a thousand ways, as does a sculptor.

HE CREATES ALL THINGS AND WATCHING OVER THEM, HE ALSO GIVES THEM GREATNESS.

Thus He gives prominence and importance to His creation. So God is not against samsara or else why should He create it?

Nor is he maya's enemy, or why should He bother with it? So the difficulty encountered by logic had no ground with the devotee. Nanak says not only does He create but He admires His creation and looks at it exultantly, thus giving it honor and importance. Remember, God has created you and having created you he has examined you from all sides, and He is still looking at you constantly as a part of His own handiwork, giving you dignity and importance; and on its own all sin will fade away from your life. If you remember this you will move about as a creation of His. You will speak and hear, fully conscious of the fact that you are His creation. In all your dealings you will be conscious of the fact that you are His and He is looking after you all the time. He watches over you constantly. He provides you with comfort and care. He looks at you lovingly, again and again. He never tires of looking at you. He is pleased with you for it is He who has made you. He

is neither disappointed nor disheartened by your ways or else He could destroy you so easily. No matter how bad and sinful you become, His flame of hope for you never burns out. No matter how far you wander away from Him, no matter how completely you forget Him and turn your back on Him, His loving gaze is still fixed on you. For He knows that if not today, tomorrow you are sure to return. Sooner or later the prodigal must return, his coming back is certain, for the further you go away from Him the more unhappy you will become, like a little child who has run away from home.

A little child, barely four years old, ran away from home. He took a small bundle of clothes and set out. A policeman found him going back and forth along the side of the road a number of times. He approached him, thinking he needed help, and asked, "Where do you want to go? Where have you come from?"

The child said, "I have run away from home but Mother always said not to cross the road, but to stay on this side.

Now I don't know what to do, since I can't cross over."

How far can a small child stray? Even if he does, Mommy has always set a limit and how can he disobey her?

How far will you wander from God? Even if you are angry with Him for some reason, you will keep shuttling between home and the road crossing. How far can you go and where will you go? Wherever you roam it is within His boundaries. Wherever you are will be within Him. Your anger is the anger of a little child; it is nothing but a part of love. He is never displeased by your displeasure.

Nanak says: He gives you importance and glorified you. What He has created He surveys, and He likes what He surveys. "

[Pheena]

I heard it somewhere that Sach-Khand can be interpreted as,

SACH-god

KHAND- place to live.

So our body is sach khand because God resides in our body.Every religion tells us the path to identify the God within us. Gurbani is also inline with this philosiphy.

If that is True Veer ji, then all of us have bodies, The spirit within these bodies is the same, should SachKhand not be availabe to everyone. How is it that Sachkhand be limited to Sikhs Only.

You know its funny how we say that Sikh Religion is not like everyone elses....yet we are becoming the same type of religon that we tend to seperate ourselves from. The followers of Jesus Say the same thing. Their SachKhand is the "Kingdom of God" and only those who belive in Jesus as their Lord and Saivour can enter. Same With Muslims, Only those who belive in Muhammed and the Koran can acheive jannat?

So What is this Sachkhand, Kingdom of God, Jannat that makes everyone want to Guard the enterence of those with a certain type of Religion?

Im curious if in our Past live we were born in a Hindu Religion or a Islamic Religion and spoke the same reptitive line of only Muslims, or Only Hindus.