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JSS Ji, Sikhi is very universal which means if "Waheguru" works for Sikhs then it has to work for all. non-sikhs are not blessed with this name because not everyone finds a diomond. Waheguru is Truth and only true way would lead you to Him. In Sikhi there are more than one way. just in Barah Maha bani there are 12 different ways for us to choose but no matter which one you pick, all lead to Him. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Totally agree with you, that japping Vaheguru, is completly different from Japping Somethng ELSe, BUT tha doesn't mean that Japping Hari, raam Gobind wouldn't benifit others

Guru Tegh Bahadur SAhib ji uses Gobind a lot in the Bani 'Rachi' by him, and it's just another name of God, and doutbt that it dones't benifit if u woudl Japp tha , prolly not a much as japping Vaheguru, BUt we ned to remember tha there are LOADS of Names of Vaheguru :wub:

OUTSTANDING and WONDERFUL post JSS veer ji, :wub: :@

Just amazing, thanks a lot for such a nice and eye-opening post ^_^^_^

Sikhi is the path love Love, not of discrimination....

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

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vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Pheena

Please clarify you point in Bold of Jesus and Muhamed asking God to let them into his Kingdom?? How do you know this? Have you talked to God Personally or have seen them waiting at the Gates??

the Following from Jap Ji Sahib Ji

gwvih eIsru brmw dyvI sohin sdw svwry ]

gaavahi eesar barmaa dayvee sohan sadaa savaaray.

Shiva, Brahma and the Goddess of Beauty, ever adorned, sing.

gwvih ieMd iedwsix bYTy dyviqAw dir nwly ]

gaavahi ind idaasan baithay dayviti-aa dar naalay.

Indra, seated upon His Throne, sings with the deities at Your Door.

This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gujri on Pannaa 518

pauVI ]

pourree ||

Pauree:

quDu iDAwiein@ byd kqybw sxu KVy ]

thudhh dhhiaaeinih baedh kathaebaa san kharrae ||

The followers of the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran, standing at Your Door, meditate on You.

gxqI gxI n jwie qyrY dir pVy ]

ganathee ganee n jaae thaerai dhar parrae ||

Uncounted are those who fall at Your Door.

bRhmy quDu iDAwiein@ ieMdR ieMdRwsxw ]

brehamae thudhh dhhiaaeinih ei(n)dhr ei(n)dhraasanaa ||

Brahma meditates on You, as does Indra on his throne.

sMkr ibsn Avqwr hir jsu muiK Bxw ]

sa(n)kar bisan avathaar har jas mukh bhanaa ||

Shiva and Vishnu, and their incarnatio

ns, chant the Lord's Praise with their mouths,

pIr ipkwbr syK mswiek AaulIey ]

peer pikaabar saekh masaaeik aouleeeae ||

as do the Pirs, the spiritual teachers, the prophets and the Shaykhs, the silent sages and the seers.

This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag

Maaroo on Pannaa 1021

bRhmw ibsnu mhysu duAwrY ]

brehamaa bisan mehaes dhuaarai ||

Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva stand at His Door;

aUBy syvih AlK ApwrY ]

oobhae saevehi alakh apaarai ||

they serve the unseen, infinite Lord.

hor kyqI dir dIsY ibllwdI mY gxq n AwvY kweI hy ]14]

hor kaethee dhar dheesai bilalaadhee mai ganath n aavai kaaee hae ||14||

Millions of others can be seen crying at His door; I cannot even estimate their numbers. ||14||

swcI kIriq swcI bwxI ]

saachee keerath saachee baanee ||

True is the Kirtan of His Praise, and True is the Word of His Bani.[/b]

In the sakhi where Maharaj Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji went 'missing' in the river ( he was in Sach Kand), it is said that on his way to Sach Khand he saw the other heavens (those of Jesus, Krishna etc) and saw those prophets praying to Vaheguru to let them into Sach Khand.

Also, when Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji was going to be given the Gurgadi - before he met Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji he used to do Durga pooja (i think bhull chukk muaff), it is sed that Durga visited Bhai Lena and told him to follow Guru Nanak Dev Ji as she herself bows down to Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

I hope this helps Pheena bhen ji :wub: , and i am sorry if i offended you or ne1 in my 1st post or in this 1

bhull chukk muaff ^_^

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

That is true, because the Destination or your Goal is not to be a Devta, or obtain Ridhias or Sidhias, it is not to acheive a status of being the King of Heaven or to be served by the 33 Kroar Devtay, Davis. It is LIBERATION. Mukhti.

There are many Kathas which go something like this. A saint in the court of his deciples bestowing Giaan saw a little mouse. After few moments the Saint starts to laugh and the deciples in couriosity ask the Saint, why did you laugh?. The Saint replied, i laughed because the mouse that i saw running aruond here, in his last Birth was Indra, Swarg tha Raja. His Karm account had run out and now hes back in the cycle of reincarnation.

Now what you said was that Jesus and Muhammed were standing at the door of God, meaning they are not liberated? The quotes you posted speak of the Followers of the Vedas and Korans not of Jesus or Muhhamed. Muhamed's words became the Koran. Jesus's word became the Bible. I dont' see how the Shabads you posted speak of the Status of those 2 Individuals.

To be Standing at the Door of God asking for LIberation is not a small feat either. 99% of us are not even near the Gates of our Beloved. Much less stand close to it and beg.

Every Kathavachick will have their own version of the events. "It is Said that Guru ji saw Muhammed and Jesus at the door"....who said? Who was there that saw them standing there?

"Take Everything that is not your Experience as a Theory" Put that Theory into Practice and when you actually see those 2 individuals at the Gates of our Beloved rather being One with him, then it will be Truth for you. Until then it is what Katha are heard, or what is said by others.

btw im your Veer, not your Bhen :wub:

I guess it didn't take long for the other Posts in this thread to start to bash other religions. :TH: rolleyes.gif

btw that was a Good post JSS veer.

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vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

I am sorry Pheena Veer Ji for mistaking you as a bhen ji, i am deeply sorry if i upset you in any way and I ask for your forgivness.

Also, i am sorry if you misinterpreted my post as bashing other religions, this was not my intention and nor my beliefs. Mahraj Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says that all religions if followed properly are a way 2 Vaheguru, I do not believe that sikhi is superior to other religions..and im sorry if i gave you that impression, All i was trying to say is that Gurbani - Sikhi is straight from Vaheguru...so why follow what others are saying.

As for the Mohamed and the Jesus statement, the Gurbani about the followers of the koran and bible stood at Vaheguru's gate, did they (jesus and mohamed) not follow their own teachings?? i.e the bible and the koran, therefore making them followers of the bible and the koran?

Additionally i did not say that standing at Vaheguru's gates is a little thing...i am sorry if i gave you that impression.

Also, the thing you say about experience at the end of your post............If it is in Gurbani i do not need to experience it, i have my full faith in Guru Ji - Gurbani for me is the truth so if Guru Ji says it i believe it i do not need to experience to believe it.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

bhull chuk muaff ^_^

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Mahraj Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says that all religions if followed properly are a way 2 Vaheguru, I do not believe that sikhi is superior to other religions

Where does it say that??? It seems very lovey-dovey to believe that all paths are great and lead to God, but it's patently FALSE.

I've already given shabads from baNee that say that not all paths lead to Vahiguru, where are the lines that say they do?

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vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaavaaheguroojeekeefathehhhhh!!!!!!!

Jedi Singh jee perhaps these shabads will offer more clarification for you. I would suggest you to read Singh132's posts carefully - he has used Gurbani as his support and his posts are in line with Gurmat.

Guru jee gives the answers in Gurbani - please read this shabads:

vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaavaaheguroojeekeefathehhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

__________________________

This Shabad is by Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 329

gauVI kbIr jI ]

gourree kabeer jee ||

Gauree, Kabeer Jee:

dyie muhwr lgwmu pihrwvau ]

dhaee muhaar lagaam pehiraavo ||

I have grasped the reins and attached the bridle;

sgl q jInu ggn daurwvau ]1]

sagal th jeen gagan dhouraavo ||1||

e='color:080088'>abandoning everything, I now ride through the skies. ||1||

ApnY bIcwir AsvwrI kIjY ]

apanai beechaar asavaaree keejai ||

I made self-reflection my mount,

shj kY pwvVY pgu Dir lIjY ]1] rhwau ]

sehaj kai paavarrai pag dhhar leejai ||1|| rehaao ||

and in the stirrups of intuitive poise, I placed my feet. ||1||Pause||

clu ry bYkuMT quJih ly qwrau ]

chal rae baiku(n)t(h) thujhehi lae thaaro ||

Come, and let me ride you to the Real heaven.

ihcih q pRym kY cwbuk mwrau ]2]

hichehi th praem kai chaabuk maaro ||2||

If you hold back, then I shall strike you with the whip of spiritual love. ||2||

khq kbIr Bly Asvwrw ] byd kqyb qy rhih inrwrw ]3]31]

kehath kabeer bhalae asavaaraa || baedh kathaeb thae rehehi niraaraa ||3||31|&

#124;

Says Kabeer, those who remain detached from the Vedas, the Koran and the Bible are the best riders. ||3||31||

This Shabad is by Guru Raam Daas Ji in Raag Aasaa on Pannaa 444

hir nwmu pdwrQu kiljuig aUqmu hir jpIAY siqgur Bwie jIau ]

har naam padhaarathh kalijug ootham har japeeai sathigur bhaae jeeo ||

The wealth of the Lord's Name is the most exalted in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga; chant the Lord's Name according to the Way of the True Guru.

gurmuiK hir pVIAY gurmuiK hir suxIAY hir jpq suxq duKu jwie jIau ]

guramukh har parreeai guramukh har suneeai har japath sunath dhukh jaae jeeo ||

As Gurmukh, read of the Lord; as Gurmukh, hear of the Lord. Chanting and listening to the Lord's Name, pain departs.

hir hir nwmu jipAw duKu ibnisAw hir nwmu prm suKu pwieAw ]

har har naam japiaa dhukh binasiaa har naam param sukh paaeiaa ||

Chanting the

Name of the Lord, Har, Har, pains are removed. Through the Name of the Lord, supreme peace is obtained.

siqgur igAwnu bilAw Git cwnxu AigAwnu AMDyru gvwieAw ]

sathigur giaan baliaa ghatt chaanan agiaan a(n)dhhaer gavaaeiaa ||

The spiritual wisdom of the True Guru illumines the heart; this Light dispels the darkness of spiritual ignorance.

hir hir nwmu iqnI AwrwiDAw ijn msqik Duir iliK pwie jIau ]

har har naam thinee aaraadhhiaa jin masathak dhhur likh paae jeeo ||

They alone meditate on the Lord's Name, Har, Har, upon whose foreheads such destiny is written.

hir nwmu pdwrQu kiljuig aUqmu hir jpIAY siqgur Bwie jIau ]2]

har naam padhaarathh kalijug ootham har japeeai sathigur bhaae jeeo ||2||

The wealth of the Lord's Name is the most exalted in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga; chant the Lord's Name according to the Way of the True Guru.||2||

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

hmmm :T: first of all thank you very much sadh sangat ji, for answering my questions, I have been tossing and turning in my bed over this situation. Now

gauVI kbIr jI ]gourree kabeer jee ||

Gauree, Kabeer Jee:

dyie muhwr lgwmu pihrwvau ]

dhaee muhaar lagaam pehiraavo ||

I have grasped the reins and attached the bridle;

sgl q jInu ggn daurwvau ]1]

sagal th jeen gagan dhouraavo ||1||

abandoning everything, I now ride through the skies. ||1||

ApnY bIcwir AsvwrI kIjY ]

apanai beechaar asavaaree keejai ||

I made self-reflection my mount,

shj kY pwvVY pgu Dir lIjY ]1] rhwau ]

sehaj kai paavarrai pag dhhar leejai ||1|| rehaao ||

and in the stirrups of intuitive poise, I placed my feet. ||1||Pause||

clu ry bYkuMT quJih ly qwrau ]

chal rae baiku(n)t(h) thujhehi lae thaaro ||

Come, and let me ride you to the Real heaven.

ihcih q pRym kY cwbuk mwrau ]2]

hichehi th praem kai chaabuk maaro ||2||

If you hold back, then I shall strike you with the whip of spiritual love. ||2||

khq kbIr Bly Asvwrw ] byd kqyb qy rhih inrwrw ]3]31]

k

ehath kabeer bhalae asavaaraa || baedh kathaeb thae rehehi niraaraa ||3||31||

Says Kabeer, those who remain detached from the Vedas, the Koran and the Bible are the best riders. ||3||31||

Many paths, many religions and in there holy books will say the same thing about there religion...saying that there path is the only way to meet God, just like the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has stated rite here, I don't really see the difference but yet it does make sense..hmm I dunno though thats just my thought...but my next question is well what about not having religion and just being spirtual? Like the bhagats they didn't have religion but lived a spiritual life....any thoughts Sangatji :T:

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giving gurbani lines and not having a thorough understanding of them is not something i would call gurmat...

giving gurbani lines that someone interprets in a certain way to make their view of things correct is not something i would call gurmat...

but then again...i wouldn't call anything anti-gurmat either...i think its one of the most annoying recent trends that have begun...we seem to think everything is black or white...either gurmat or anti gurmat....

but that's simply cannot be the way...just look at all the naam abhiyaasi gurmukhs sikhi has produced...i can say having read about their jeevans that they all had slightly different ways of doing things..followed differing rehits...yet all were absorbed in naaam...and then we have our generation kids going around telling people what is gurmat....

anyhow...

i'd like to comment on the gurbani tuks provided by khalsapreet veerji...

the first shabad in which you provided...the last line i assume is what you wanted us to look at...(forgive me if i'm wrong)...however ..its an amazing shabad...i think bhai randhir singh ji talks about that shabad in one of his books...in a different context though...

however the last line...if we look at it...it's easy to just assume that oh..kabir ji must be saying that the koran is wrong, that the bible is wrong that the vedas are wrong....YET it doesn't say that they are WRONG...i'm sure if guru ji wanted to say that he would have explicitly said that...

for me...that tuk says to forget what is written and ONLY be absorbed in naaam ...in loving meditation of the lord....in fact that tuk gives us valuable advice for us sikhs in today's world... there

are some of us who think by reading gurbani only we will reach guru ji...but that's not true...reading gurbani gives us the instructions on how to live..it tells us to meditate...but if i don't put any of it into practice in my life then me reading gurbani my whole life isn't going to do anything...and trust me...i've seen this personally...

likewise kabir ji is giving advice to the people of THAT time to let go of the books, cuz god isn't realized by only reading and reciting...god is realized by deep, loving contemplation....

again..this is what my heart tells me about the meaning of that tuk....i'm not a scholar of gurbani...i feel the meanings that come to my heart....

the second shabad...the tuks that you have highlighted....i do not disagree at all...it is gurbani....at teh same time...i don't see that as proof of sikhi being the only way...the TRUE GURU for US sikhs is guru granth sahib ji...nowhere in that whole shabad does it say that there is only ONE true guru...for people of other faiths it could be someone else...

for Kabir ji...his guru was ramanand....

for parmahansa yogananada his guru was Lahiri mahsa....

we must remember one thing (i feel) when we read gurbani...that is GURU ji is talking directly to us...and when we look at meanings...we have to see what does that meaning have to do with me at this time?...what is guru ji trying to tell me?...when he talks about people reading the vedas and not getting anything out of them...waht does it have to do with me??...for me that answer is...guru ji is telling me ..."hey sikha...don't just read gurbani...read gurbani...and then implement it in your life.."

as one gurmukh i knew always said....people loving reading gurbani and saying..."see..that's what's wrong with such and such person.."...we must read gurbani in context of our own lives....

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vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefatheh!!!!

bhai sahib,

thanks for your enlightening post.

bhagat kabir ji's guru was not ramanand ji. this is disputed in history. it is still not evidenced by anthropologers whether bhagat kabir ji was a contemporary of guru nanak or not. there are just as many people who say bhagat kabir ji was a sikh of guru nanak, as the amount of people who say bhagat kabir ji was a sikhi of ramanand ji.

nonetheless, with regard to the specific line "bayd kathayb thay rahay niraaraa."

likewise kabir ji is giving advice to the people of THAT time to let go of the books

firstly, bhai sahib, gurbani is jugo-jug attal, it is advice to all the ages.

secondly, with all due respect bhai sahib jee, Gurbani, dhur kee bani, sachee bani, is not "bayd kathayb."

maharaaj could have said, in this thuk, "gurbani thay rahay niraaraa" but that would be contrary to guru sahib's legacy

maharaaj has said that gurmat and gurbani is the only way.

Gurbani, pyar, rehit lead us to Naam. Guru sahib has said the only way to reach Naam is through Gurmat

" gur poorai har naam sidhh paaee ko viralaa guramath chalai jeeo ||1||"

Without Naam there is not Gurmat, without Gurmat there is not Naam. Once we follow Gurmat we are in tune with Naam. Gurmat means the way of the Guru's thinking. Guru ma

haraaj has clearly said in Gurbani that Gurmat is the way to Akaal Purakh. Guru's thinking. Which Guru's thinking?

Guru sahib has said that you can get nowhere without a Guru.

Does this mean that anybody who has a Guru is on the right path?

Guru Sahib has also said if your Guru is blind, you will be going down the wrong path too. You will be blinded too.

Thus for myself, and I cannot speak for anybody else, I would rather adopt such a Guru who is never blind, never was born, never dies, and will unite me with Akaal Purakh.

maharaaj says "Gur poora milaavai mayraa preetam"

Who is the Gur Poora?

"chhea ghar chhea gur chhea updays, Gur Gur EKO vays anayk"

Who is the Eko Guru ?

"sarb dharam mai shrayst dharam"

What is the Shrayst dharam ? The root religion? and who is the Guru of that root religion?

The answer is clearly in Gurbani: "JYOT SUROOP HAR AAP GURU NANAK KAHAAIYO"

In this dark age the Guru of all, the only one source of infinite truth and the entry to sach khand is in the hands of Guru Nanak...

I can't speak for anybody else but "Aad Ant Aykai Avtaaraa Soee Guru Samjhiyo hamaaraa"

That is my Guru, the Light of God, "Ik Baba Akaal Roop"

please forgive my mistakes

vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaavaaheguroojeekeefatheh!!!!

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vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

I am sorry Pheena Veer Ji for mistaking you as a bhen ji, i am deeply sorry if i upset you in any way and I ask for your forgivness.

Also, i am sorry if you misinterpreted my post as bashing other religions, this was not my intention and nor my beliefs. Mahraj Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says that all religions if followed properly are a way 2 Vaheguru, I do not believe that sikhi is superior to other religions..and im sorry if i gave you that impression, All i was trying to say is that Gurbani - Sikhi is straight from Vaheguru...so why follow what others are saying.

As for the Mohamed and the Jesus statement, the Gurbani about the followers of the koran and bible stood at Vaheguru's gate, did they (jesus and mohamed) not follow their own teachings?? i.e the bible and the koran, therefore making them followers of the bible and the koran?

Additionally i did not say that standing at Vaheguru's gates is a little thing...i am sorry if i gave you that impression.

Also, the thing you say about experience at the end of your post............If it is in Gurbani i do not need to experience it, i have my full faith in Guru Ji - Gurbani for me is the truth so if Guru Ji says it i believe it i do not need to experience to believe it.

[font=GurbaniW

ebThick]vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!![/font]

bhull chuk muaff ^_^

nahi piyario, the last statement was not directed towards you specificaly. I was just obsering and predicting the outcome of this thread. No worries about calling me bhen, you are not the first, nor willyou be the last. :wub:

As for the Shabad, The practitioners and the Practice are 2 different things. You cannot judge the Practice which was pure at the time Jesus, Muhammed Taught it with the Practitioners of Today. Teaching are always mis-interpeted and continue to do so. As veer JSS put it, Guru ji says Hindu not Hinduism, or Tark not Islam. Guru ji Critisize the Practiioners of a Certain faith for they are and have gone Astray. Same with Yogis, you will see many times where Guru ji will Critisize Yogis, but not the Practice. The Practitioners and the Practice are 2 different things. The Practice can also be contaminated thru down the times by the ego as can the Interpetation.

About the Experience, Certainly Faith gives you Trust which is utmost important in a relationship between a Master and Deciple. Faith also pushes you to surrender to the Guru for whatever Hukam or Gyaan is given by the Master is accepted without hesitation.

But the Goal is to Experience that Gyaan for yourself. For you to discover the Truth For yourself. Not just by reading or listening. I can tell you all about Paris for i have been there, it is my experience. I can tell you wonderfull stories, i can tell you how to get there. But simply be li

stening and having faith in what i said will not take you to Paris. You must walk upon the set-forth directions and use the light of Gyaan bestowed up us by the Guru which will help us reach our destination.

We are more than welcome to enocourage Siikhi to other, but I feel it should not be done at the expense of putting down other Faith. The message of Guru Granth Sahib can stand on its own, without putting down other paths. NO need to Compare. It is Potent enough on its own.

If someone ask about other religoins, i would rather tell him, im not here to tell you which is right or wrong religion, im simply here to tell you the truth as i have experienced it thru Sikhi and let the individual form his or her conclusion. Many times we get into debates with other on the different ideals or Beliefs set forth by religions, and i have yet to see any one win in such a debate. There cannot be a winner. One says the apple is blue, the other says the apple is Yellow. It is irrelivent of what color the apples, is just take a bite and expereience the taste of the apple. Does it diminish your hunger, does it bring you Compassion towards Humanity, Does it make you more Humble, Does it bring for infinite love towards the Creator and his Creation, if so then the apple is Amrit, That Religion is your Dharma.

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sorry...

but none of those tuks mean that ONLY our gurus were the true gurus.....

and i'll just work of one of the tuks you offered to the sangat....

chhea ghar chhea gur chhea updays, Gur Gur EKO vays anayk

yes it says eko guru....BUT it also says vays anayk....let's not only look at one part...vays anayk....meaning many forms....

there will always only be one guru....but that jot of the guru ji's can take a myriad of forms...

also...regarding the tuk given by kabir ji...i didn't say it was ONLY applicable to the people of that age....it is applicable to us too...and it wouldn't make sense for kabir ji to talk about gurbani as it wasn't around during his time....and it makes sense for kabir ji to talk in the language of his time....and we cannot limit ourselves to just the words that are used...but have to read between the lines...find the message...

also...i read what you have to say about gurmat...being rehit and all...i don't see anything wrong with what you've said...BUT...again..it still does not make my interpretation wrong...cuz i never said in my post that naam was everything...i never contested rehit....i would not do that...in fact..i said in my earlier post that we have to PRACTICE what gurbani says and not MERELY read it....

please read it carefully...cuz i think you mis understood my post...

also...From MOST sources tha i have read , most people agree on that his guru was ramanand...even in his gurbani..he talks about japping raam (not ramanand..but that was the mantar that was given to him)...if he was a contemporary of guru nanak dev ji or a SIKH of guru ji...he would have been japping Waheguru....<

br>

the only place i've seen that likes to make kabir ji a sikh of guru nanak is the tapoban site...and i'm not going to even comment on that...they are and you are free to believe what you want...free to have an opinion...but that doesn't make it a fact...

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giving gurbani lines and not having a thorough understanding of them is not something i would call gurmat...

giving gurbani lines that someone interprets in a certain way to make their view of things correct is not something i would call gurmat...

but then again...i wouldn't call anything anti-gurmat either...i think its one of the most annoying recent trends that have begun...we seem to think everything is black or white...either gurmat or anti gurmat....

but that's simply cannot be the way...just look at all the naam abhiyaasi gurmukhs sikhi has produced...i can say having read about their jeevans that they all had slightly different ways of doing things..followed differing rehits...yet all were absorbed in naaam...and then we have our generation kids going around telling people what is gurmat....

anyhow...

i'd like to comment on the gurbani tuks provided by khalsapreet veerji...

the first shabad in which you provided...the last line i assume is what you wanted us to look at...(forgive me if i'm wrong)...however ..its an amazing shabad...i think bhai randhir singh ji talks about that shabad in one of his books...in a different context though...

however the last line...if we look at it...it's easy to just assume that oh..kabir ji must be saying that the koran is wrong, that the bible is wrong that the vedas are wrong....YET it doesn't say that they are WRONG...i'm sure if guru ji wanted to say that he wou

ld have explicitly said that...

for me...that tuk says to forget what is written and ONLY be absorbed in naaam ...in loving meditation of the lord....in fact that tuk gives us valuable advice for us sikhs in today's world... there are some of us who think by reading gurbani only we will reach guru ji...but that's not true...reading gurbani gives us the instructions on how to live..it tells us to meditate...but if i don't put any of it into practice in my life then me reading gurbani my whole life isn't going to do anything...and trust me...i've seen this personally...

likewise kabir ji is giving advice to the people of THAT time to let go of the books, cuz god isn't realized by only reading and reciting...god is realized by deep, loving contemplation....

again..this is what my heart tells me about the meaning of that tuk....i'm not a scholar of gurbani...i feel the meanings that come to my heart....

the second shabad...the tuks that you have highlighted....i do not disagree at all...it is gurbani....at teh same time...i don't see that as proof of sikhi being the only way...the TRUE GURU for US sikhs is guru granth sahib ji...nowhere in that whole shabad does it say that there is only ONE true guru...for people of other faiths it could be someone else...

for Kabir ji...his guru was ramanand....

for parmahansa yogananada his guru was Lahiri mahsa....

we must remember one thing (i feel) when we read gurbani...that is GURU ji is talking directly to us...and when we look at meanings...we have to see what does that meaning have to do with me at this time?...what is guru ji trying to tell me?...when he talks about people reading the vedas and not getting anything out of them...waht does it have to do with me??...for me that answer is...guru ji is telling me ..."hey sikha...don't just read gurbani...read gurbani...and then implement it in your life.."

as one gurmukh i knew always said....people loving reading gurbani and saying..."see.

.that's what's wrong with such and such person.."...we must read gurbani in context of our own lives....

Couldn't have said it better bro. Well Said Piyario

Waheguru

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vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefatheh!!!

most people agree on that his guru was ramanand...even in his gurbani..he talks about japping raam

Bhai sahib jee, the bani from Guru Granth Sahib jee from Mahala 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9.. they all use the phrase "raam" in reference to simran. That does not mean their gurmantar was raam. HOwever I would like to drop out of this discussion because it's not decided by the panth. Please forgive my mistakes.

With regard to the rest of the post,

Bhai sahib ji I know that Guru Sahib has come in different "vays" or forms, but the whole time it has always been the same Guru Sahib.

If you need water for survival, it is so much more useful to go to the source yourself, than to take water from a pot of somebody who has just come from the source.

Prophets come and go, they bring their pots of water (truth).

Guru Sahib is the ocean.

one last comment :

Pheena Veerjee's post is beautiful. And I agree with his comment that we should not call other faiths bad or negative.

somebody might want to talk about guru sahib's hukam in gurbani that says:

" baedh kathaeb kehahu math jhoot(h)ae jhoot(h)aa jo n bichaarai ||"

Interestingly this shabad is also by Bhagat Kabir Jee who says that those who DON'T follow Bayd and Katayb are the best riders to the real heaven.

There

is a pattern here though.

This shabad says that the Bayds and kataybs, do not call them false - call that person false who doesn't reflect on their teachings.

In my humble and lame and non-professional opinion, I think this is said to mean that the root teachings of all faiths are the same.

I regularly watch Pastor Creflo Dollar on Vision TV and Pastor John Burns on Channel M and their inspirational speeches on Christianity remind me of Sikhi.

However when it comes to giaan vidya, gurmat, you cannot get that from those teachings.

Bhagat Kabir Ji says, dont call other religions false. Their root is the same as Gurmat. However, the ones who follow Gurmat instead of the other religions are the best riders to the real heaven (Sach Khand).

Guru Sahib has said "simritt saastr bayd sabhai bahu bhayd kahain ham ayk na jaanyo"

Bhayd is a secret. The sacred texts of all the other religions give secrets and teachings - Guru Sahib says that he does not recognize these.

The essential lesson is - while the root of all religions is the same, their peripheral teachings have geared so far off the path of Gurmat that allegiance to them yeilds "kacha" results.

Kacha means unripe. If you eat a kacha fruit you will still get some nutrients, but not the full nutrients.

So in my post I do not intend to say that other faiths cannot help you reach high spiritual states. Right now I am in the state lower than a worm. Christians, Jews, Hindus and Muslims are higher than me. However, the highest "param padvee" is only attainable through Gurmat. Like Singh132 said, those religions can help you reach the epitome of their faith like heaven or paradise, but those are lower than Sach Khand.

please forgive my mistakes

vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefatheh!!!

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vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefatheh!!!

[

So in my post I do not intend to say that other faiths cannot help you reach high spiritual states. Right now I am in the state lower than a worm. Christians, Jews, Hindus and Muslims are higher than me. However, the highest "param padvee" is only attainable through Gurmat. Like Singh132 said, those religions can help you reach the epitome of their faith like heaven or paradise, but those are lower than Sach Khand.

vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefatheh!!!

What is SachKhand Veer?

"Sachkhand Vass-say Nirankaar" The Realm of Truth?? The True Residence of God?

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Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

yes its true that sikhi is the only way out to save you from the deadly jamdoots

but to become sikh is not your choice

its Maharaj ji's choice

if THEY wish you to be THEIR beloved son

then forget about running elsewhere

no one has ever been able to escape such passionate love

but only the luckiest fellows are allowed here

you may be bad but not worse than KauDa Raakhsh who ultimately became a sikh

if you believe in God then pray to The Lord for guidance

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

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