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Unintellectual Community ?


Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh
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Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh

Re; the thread on the main page:

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Whereas Sikh youth in the Western world is more interested in getting caught up in gang culture and shooting themselves up.

No you're mistaking Canada for the whole of Western civilisation.  In the UK the major criticism of 'Sikh youth born in the west' is that they are too soft, don't fight and just want to either study or pray all the time.

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Zafarnama is being taught at Tehran University? Where did hear this tale from, WhatsApp? I guess it must be as true as NASA keeping the Guru Granth Sahib in their library for fact checking.

Tejs. One of the signs of being able to tell whether someone is 'intellectual' or 'unintellectual' is in the way that person communicates with other individuals. You could have responded to jkvlondon in a more respectful way. The fact that jkvlondon didn't know what the actual historic Zafarnama is and mistook it for Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji's letter by the same name is OK. The fact that you didn't know either demonstrates the dangers of starting threads questioning the intelligence of others.

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What's the reason that we have not been able to cultivate an original culture based on Sikh values, yet have continued to propagate Punjabi culture which is a hodge-podge of foreign culture

We do have values and we are Punjabi so why should we not propagate our own culture ?   When England embraced Christianity all those centuries ago, should it have immediately stopped speaking being English ?

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Its punjabi pendu macho mentality little villager thinking mostly by jatts (as they are the majority of the Sikh population but not exclusively though) as I've noticed the other castes tend to be alot more intellectually smart and professionally skilled.

Genie, The current leader of the NDP in Canada is from that village group......The former Governor General of British Columbia is from that village group.....90% of the many Sikh MPs in Canada are from that village group.....Vancouver's deputy Chief of Police is from that village group....The American United Nations Secretary is from that village group ......The world's largest fruit farmer is from that village group.....The International Operations Manager of Tim Hortons is from that village group.....The owners of some of Britain's biggest industry brands are from that village group........The largest KFC, Pizza Hut and Dominoes franchises in the UK are from that village group....100% of the UKs Sikh MPs are from that village group....the world's most popular poet of today is from that village group..... NKJ speaker is from that group....Basics of Sikhi Jugraj Singh was from that village group. Do you see a pattern forming here genie ? There is a message behind it. The message is that no one group is any better than another. We are all individuals, each of us capable of amazing things. I don't want my children being evil castists by negatively labelling other groups as backward and I also want them to kick people like you in the teeth whenever they come across someone like you....i.e. someone that sees no problem in labelling people from that village background as backward and stupid.

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The jatt's tend to have a rural farmer mentally ie work hard in the fields/manual laboring basic jobs and drink and party hard too. Hence why you have out of all the punjabi families who have a huge problem with alcoholism it tends to be the jatts or those who have manual jobs that doesn't require to have high IQ or academic/ intellectual ability.

Either you are permanently stuck in the 1970s Genie or you are the most crass castist this forum has ever encountered. How on earth can you make disgusting statements like that about people and get away with it ?

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The families that are raise their kids in cities tend to be a bit more civilised more academic/ intellectual aware of their circumstances and solutions towards it using their minds rather than their braun.

What a thoroughly disgusting thing to say about the rural folk. You would do well to remember that those Punjab 'city' folk you admire to much also habitually follow a practice that is completely unheard of among rural folk....Setting daughter in laws on fire for not bringing enough dowry !!!!

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One of the fundamental teachings of Sikhi is to learn, the very word "sikh" means learner... a Sikh should always be seeking knowledge whether about geo-politicals, theology, science, technology or just social cohesion/personal inter-development. A Sikh's very essence should be to constantly learn so that them and there Sikh community can be uplifted out of ignorance and darkness.

I used to think that to Genie. But trust me, there is not a single person here - including you - that wants to learn anything. You want to say that right thing in order to portray your 'intellectual' qualities in an attempt to differentiate yourself from the 'unintellectuals' but we are living in a world where the line between the intellectuals and the unpadhs have been blurred.

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Yes, we have gems like Narinder Singh Kapany but they are very rare and few.

We have millions and millions of gems Tej. In can be argued that the unpadh man that can come to foreign 70 years ago, lay the foundation for future Sikh communities, take physical and mental blows galore but still keep his eye on the prize and work his way to a good future for his children and future generations has shown a lot more intellect than rich businessmen (perhaps like Mr Kampany) who didn't have enough intellect to know that they could have used their riches to empower their people in such a productive way.

Please define what you mean by 'intellect' Tej as the very fact that you've self-proclaimed yourself one of the intellectuals and started a thread in which you criticise as 'unintellectual'  those that fail to live up to your ideals does seem to suggest that you belong firmly in the latter camp.

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If we take a glance at the Ancient Greeks, whose people have had considerable influence on the Western world

As a lifetime scholar of the Greeks let me say 2 things:

1) the Greek philosophers themselves look east (including Punjab) as a source of wisdom

2) The fact these 'wise' men also saw it as normal and OK to commit suicide by the age of 60 and see young boys as existing for the sexual pleasure of older men shows us that not all is as 'wise' and 'intellectual' as first seems.

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they too believed that one should and can possess both traits and they claimed, ""The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."

Didn't one of them also say "he who says (i.e starts a thread about how intellectual they are) doesn't really know. Those who really know don't say" ?

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If we take a look at the Ancient Persians, who were a people of action through out their conquests, they too have had a significant amount of scholars as well and continue to nurture that scholarly attitude

Yes that is partly true but another way of looking at the Persians (from ancient to modern) is that they are poetic and artistic rather than 'intellectual' in the traditional sense. I'm a great lover of Persian poetry and neo-realism cinema so I do say this with a heavy heart but I can't help feeling that this poetic side to them is their downfall rather than saving grace in terms of intellect. Sure, it means they have a great tradition of the intelligentsia which is the vital component for revolutions and freedom struggles but it also means their overly emotive nature makes them the most drug addicted nation on earth. Me thinks they think too much.

 

Intelligence then comes in many forms. The illegal fauji sitting on the Green in Southall for example, having first the intellect to know he needs to provide for his family, trekked through dangerous west Asian territory, darkest Africa, dodged bullets in eastern Europe before finally clinging on to the bottom of a truck for many hours in order to get to the UK. Isn't this intellect of knowing how to survive the true intellect ? or is it the 2nd generation western born Sikh who sits at his desk in front of the computer with all the comforts of the world proclaiming others to be unintellectual and himself the intellectual one ? Tej ?

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Guest Genda

How are we defining intellectualism? Is it one with a PhD? I see lots of western intellectuals who are in reality very stupid people. Intelligence has nothing to do with being an intellectual. Intelligence is defined as ones ability to achieve and we have done that.

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Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh
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Indeed, our people are practical learners! We're so practical that despite farming for centuries, we still use harmful rudimentary techniques to clear fields - stubble burning, because we can't come up with better methods that the West already has.

Tej. On the one hand you praise people like the French for being more 'intelligent' than us because they value the arts and have a tradition of philosophy and invention and then you go on to ridicule Punjabi farmers for stubble burning without even realising that stubble burning is still the preferred method throughout France and much of the 'intellectual' western world (western europe) (but especially France) . So I ask again....what is 'intelligence' ?  Is it the people that get on with things and make successes of their lives throughout the world wherever they go OR is it the 2 generation born, sitting on his computer in comfortable surroundings, who has decided that he has become an authority on everything including farming methods ?  

Your problem, I feel, is that you are based in a cultural backwater and everything you think you know has been based on what you've read. Thats not your fault. 

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Guest jigsaw_puzzle_singh

You know, I started this thread purely as a reality mirror to Tej's thread on the main page. But, along the way, it got me thinking about my own self and perhaps the 'thinking' itself is what intelligence is all about. I started this thread (and the architecture thread) after, in many ways, letting my family down. My kids were making dreams of joining daddy in America, having a pool in the back yard and enjoying hot summer days in the sun. But daddy did what he always does. Daddy, being the unintellectual that he his, ran away from his doctorate again. Daddy, is worth about 24% of what the hard working Sikhs in the west are worth. Daddy i.e. I, detest myself as much as I do all of you that think you have intellect. 

I can quote Nietczhe...I can transcribe the morals behind what Diogenese said....but at the end of the day I am just a man that has had the luck of being born in the time and circumstance that I was born. The fact that I am 3rd generation and had the luxury of what my mum and dad had worked hard for is just pure luck. Winning the lottery. Fortune. My luck is that I've had time to read and think but the more that I have "thinked" the more I have realised that I know nothing at all while at the same time know everything. Time, for the lucky idle mind, brings opportunities for thought. Whereas I once 'thought' that I must impress upon 'Indians' how evil they are for denying we Sikhs the right of honourable existence I realise that 'Indians' and I are joined at the hip and are equally as stupid and are 'learning' together. Indians are only as stupid as me (the Sikh) and the Sikhs are only as stupid as the Indians. We will grow, intellectually, together. Together, as we grow intellectually, the Indians will learn how wrong it was of them to let their politicians and police to murder Sikhs in Delhi 1984. As they....as will we....grow intellectually, they will criticise their parents for not prosecuting those killers even though their names are known. They, just like us, will slowly learn how dumbed down Bollywood is. We will learn and grow together. As we grow together we will learn the profound wrongness of nationalism. We'll grow together but in the meantime you ned to understand how the ability to put words together in an attractive sounding sentence is not the sign of intelligence. I am the most stupidest person you could ever hope to meet. Slightly less stupid than me is TejS who started a thread about how intelligent she/he is. Just above him/her is mistersingh who has convinced his mind that I'm here with a 'motive' .  I'm the stupidest and most unintelligent of them all but, as you can see, there are contenders.  The ones who are not 'stupid'....not 'unintelligent'....are our mums and dads. They're the ones who have ensured the Sikhs are the most respected and prosperous community in England, the most powerful in Canada and living prosperous lives in America. T

THEY...the ones who laid the foundations and built, are the true intellectuals. The rest of us are just pathetic losers with too much time on our hands, access to the internet, and the luxury of being able to 'think' instead of working. I, just like you, am an 'unintellectual' <banned word filter activated>.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest london jwaan

Jagsaw,

Not for the first time, a few months ago you profoundly claimed that you were leaving this forum, much to the sangat's jubilation. But yet again, it was not to be and yet more nonsense. I guess the methane from your intestines has built up way too much pressure and blown the cork out of your cake hole, and you have continued to relieve yourself on this forum.

Your sensationalist, unfactual, misrepresnted hyperbole bukwaas is tiresome. And I exposed your nonsense in detail - with substantiated links in your last tantrum on this forum before you "left". Anybody, feel free to search, I provided the factual links to counter the bukwaas, over and over again.....

Re-appearing as Jigsaw is rather pathetic I must admit. But I consider it my seva to counter bukwaas wherever I see it, so.......

On 6/14/2018 at 4:11 AM, Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh said:

In the UK the major criticism of 'Sikh youth born in the west' is that they are too soft, don't fight and just want to either study or pray all the time.

And who levels that criticism, Jagsaw? You? what do you want? For everyone to spend their time looking for a reason to fight? Is that what you want to encourage? To be like you and look for any reason to start waving your kirpan around your head for any reason?  Is fighting all the time the sign of an intellectual?

How about this? Youre allegedly a "sikh" in london (although thats open to debate), Im a sikh in London, if we were to meet up and I were to knock you out, as tempting and enjoyable as that may be, would that make me intellectual?

On 6/14/2018 at 4:11 AM, Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh said:

Tejs. One of the signs of being able to tell whether someone is 'intellectual' or 'unintellectual' is in the way that person communicates with other individuals.

LOL - thats excellent coming from you. Really enjoyed that one! Aggressive ad hominem condescending attacks when someone "dares" to disagree with your extremist bukwaas, in your strategy to intimidate people into silence and spread hatred and extremism. Luckily for you, I relish it. Absolutely love tearing you a new Jagsaw at any opportunity.

On 6/14/2018 at 4:11 AM, Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh said:

You could have responded to jkvlondon in a more respectful way.

Again LOL. You are the most disrespectful <banned word filter activated> that I think that has ever borne the manifestation of a sikh. And youre questioning Tej??? You crack me up really......

But the most idiotic behaviour you show in all of your previous postings, is to either misrepresent or make up fake "facts" to emphasise your point or appear more learned. And here we go again.......

On 6/14/2018 at 4:11 AM, Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh said:

The former Governor General of British Columbia is from that village group.....

Really? Which one? Notwithstanding that there is no Governor general post of British Columbia, here is a list of Lieutenant Governors of British Columbia, which shows no sikhs, let alone Jatts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lieutenant_governors_of_British_Columbia 

I presume you meant Ujjal Dosanjh, who is a former Premier of British Columbia?

But my personal favourite bukwaas has to be:

On 6/14/2018 at 4:11 AM, Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh said:

ou are permanently stuck in the 1970s Genie or you are the most crass castist this forum has ever encountered. How on earth can you make disgusting statements like that about people and get away with it ?

No actually Jagsaw, that would be you. Its a bit like Hitler calling someone racist. Many Many times you have referred to chooreh chamar, insinuated false bakwaas about Afghan Sikhs, Ramgharia, Batra etc. And you also use the term "punjabi" as a derogatory term to label someone that you, in your arrogance, consider not to be sikh.

So I think its fair, that yet again, not only are you a total DELETED you are talking right out of your Jagsaw, Jigsaw.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa , Waheguru ji ki fateh

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The Gurus claimed to have no caste, creed or race. 

 

They recognised the entire human race as one, and weren't racist. 

Thats where Punjabis have gone wrong. 

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