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Gagan1995

Shameless " Sikh sects " who abandoned Banda Singh Bahadur caused a period of darkness over Panjab.

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This is about the battle between Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and Mughals, when Banda captured many territories in Panjab , mughals put their full effort on getting him. Now Baba Banda and many soldiers were held up in a fort that was surrounded by mughals , and it turned out many Sikh sects had abandoned him because they didn't care for his leadership over khalsa and also that one of Guru's Gobind's wife was staunchly against him , which led to a division in Sikhs . Now this only gave an edge to the Mughals. Banda and his men were captured , all gained territory was lost, this led a period of darkness where Sikhs were fractured and mini halocausts were happening every other yr . Had Baba Banda received cavalry and escaped for another day, he could've united the Sikh raj well before Maharaja Ranjit Singh. 

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15 minutes ago, Gagan1995 said:

This is about the battle between Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and Mughals, when Banda captured many territories in Panjab , mughals put their full effort on getting him. Now Baba Banda and many soldiers were held up in a fort that was surrounded by mughals , and it turned out many Sikh sects had abandoned him because they didn't care for his leadership over khalsa and also that one of Guru's Gobind's wife was staunchly against him , which led to a division in Sikhs . Now this only gave an edge to the Mughals. Banda and his men were captured , all gained territory was lost, this led a period of darkness where Sikhs were fractured and mini halocausts were happening every other yr . Had Baba Banda received cavalry and escaped for another day, he could've united the Sikh raj well before Maharaja Ranjit Singh. 

You need to research Gagan, you know Banda Singh Bahadur betrayed the Khalsa?

 

Read the original post.

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The point is , they should've set aside their silly differences and fought against a common evil , a great evil that was a threat to all non muslims . 

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21 minutes ago, Gagan1995 said:

The point is , they should've set aside their silly differences and fought against a common evil , a great evil that was a threat to all non muslims . 

"Silly" differences? You do realize Banda Singh Bahadur started his own Khalsa (Bandai Khalsa) and made himself Guru? He even sat on thrones at Gurdware he made.

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That could've been dealt with after the defeat of the mughals and the formation of Sikh Empire . Think of this , if the Sikhs had set up an empire during the time of Banda , it would've never had leaders to fell into the clutches of the dogras , and on top of that , it would've been around for 150 yrs  before the Brits started the war , infact , I doubt the brits would've ever started a war , since Sikhs would'n't have had weak leaders after Maharaja Ranjit . But , I diving into a whole :" fantasy , what if scenarios " which are completely pointless. 

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Some people do say that Banda Singh Bahadur was wrong, I don't know, should be careful of what we say though! he could of been very close to Waheguru for what we know. Traditionally he is seen as a hero. The Mughals caught him and put him in a cage and paraded him around Delhi and then fed him his own son! that is just horrific! 

I dont know much about him but he did blow up Sirhind but did not blow up the religious muslim buildings, like the rauza sharif place, which i think is a burial site for indian muslim saints. 

 

Well Sikhs splitting up and not sticking together has pretty much been the history of india and indians! in fact the main reason that india has been conquered by invaders for around 1000 years is because Indian society has been so divided. Shudras used to be murdered or converted and the brahmins used to say good riddance, little did the foolish brahmins know that these very shudras would one day convert to a religion which would threaten the very existence of the hindu dharam. The tables turned and the very people that the brahmins used to call shudras now started calling the brahmins kafirs. 

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Banda sinsh bahadur lost because he allowed himself.to be in a seize. 

Once ur in that position. Its hard to win. 

Sikhs with him were almost starving to death. 

But it was.a.shame abt how many sikhs were killed peacefully after he was captured. It wouldve been better to have died fighting. 

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12 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Banda sinsh bahadur lost because he allowed himself.to be in a seize. 

Once ur in that position. Its hard to win. 

Sikhs with him were almost starving to death. 

But it was.a.shame abt how many sikhs were killed peacefully after he was captured. It wouldve been better to have died fighting. 

On that note it should be remembered that reading one text does not provide us with the entire particulars of a historic event. We need to be open minded when pursuing the more tendentious points of Sikh history. Dr. Balwant Singh Dhillon is currently compiling the Rajasthani records vis-a-vis Banda and a picture is emerging which is contrary to what Bhangu and the Budha-Dal Nangs have painted. There was more to Banda's surrender than meets the eye. 

"It is crucial to note here that impartial historicity, contrary to sampradaic/ nationalistic sophistry, does not solely consist of reading one granth and/or one tract and then attempting to construct an entire analysis of events on the latter. It is undeniable that Bhangu, when dealing with the post-Banda era, exhibits a degree of accuracy lacking in other Sikh texts. Where Banda is concerned, though, it is evident that he continually stumbles.

Did Banda surrender unconditionally? Let us also scrutinize contemporary Persian texts and attempt to discover the middle ground rather than selective perceptions of both Sikh and non-Sikh historians.

The contemporary 'Fatuhat Nama-i-Samadi,' compiled in 1722 by Ghulam Mohiud-Din who was employed by Abdus and was also a veteran of the aforementioned conflict, observes that Banda Singh was extremely reluctant to surrender to the Mughals. After the departure of Binod Singh, the Sikhs inside the fortress were united. Banda called a conference and advised them to prepare themselves for one last encounter with the foe. He, Banda, and a select few would stay back in the fort and fight to the last man whereas the rest would escape in the melee. The Sikhs refused to entertain this notion deeming it prudent to save his life as he was an elect of the tenth Guru himself. Baaj Singh the son of Binod Singh, who had left his father's side, then decided to open negotiations with the Mughals. The historian S. Karam Singh would contend against Mohiud-Din's narration of events but would fail to substantiate his claims. 

Another contemporary record, the 'Asrar-i-Samadi,' corroborates the 'Nama-i-Samadi' and even offers a list of agreements which Baaj Singh acquired from Samad Khan. These are:

1.) The Sikhs would surrender their heavy weaponry once the Mughals had allowed them to gain safer quarters.

2.) Asif Beg, who was in communication with Baaj Singh, would act as the agent for the Mughals whilst Baaj Singh would act in a similar capacity for the Sikhs.

3.) Asif Beg's assurances and pledges would be reciprocated by the Sikhs in full.

4.) On Asif Beg's assurance, Banda's son and a few select Sikhs would be sent to Samad Khan's court as a gesture of the Sikhs' goodwill and for further negotiations in the future (a grant of some sort is suggested. The latter did become a reality in some aspects. Bhangu informs us that the famed Tara Singh Waan, one of Banda's warriors, was bequeathed land by the Mughals whilst it was decided that Binod Singh and Kahn Singh would receive financial reimbursement from Mughal coffers. In the case of Waan it was deemed prudent that he be left alone to till his land. Binod Singh and Kahn Singh were also allowed to raise a few battalions as they had rendered great service in weakening Banda). 

Hampered on all sides and caught in the net (to speak candidly), Banda finally decided to surrender. S. Gurbax Singh summarizes:

'Banda did not surrender unconditionally and that the surrender was preceded by a negotiated settlement. According to the terms of the settlement the Nawab promised to spare the lives of the Sikhs if they relinquished their hold over the fortress and that the Nawab would recommend their case to the Emperor and would mediate on their behalf.'"


- S. Gurbax Singh, 'Banda's Fall: A negotiated settlement.'

Other critical factors which have emerged are that there is no record of either Mata Sundri Ji or Mata Sahib Kaur Ji castigating Banda or being approached by the Mughals to do so. Other then Bhangu and the Nirmala Ganesha Singh, no other mention has been made of the Bandai Khalsa. Even today in Kashmir Sikhi abounds because of the sacrifices made by Banda Singh's descendants during the Gurudwara Reform Movement and prior. 

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On 7/5/2018 at 4:59 AM, puzzled said:

Some people do say that Banda Singh Bahadur was wrong, I don't know, should be careful of what we say though! he could of been very close to Waheguru for what we know. Traditionally he is seen as a hero. The Mughals caught him and put him in a cage and paraded him around Delhi and then fed him his own son! that is just horrific! 

I dont know much about him but he did blow up Sirhind but did not blow up the religious muslim buildings, like the rauza sharif place, which i think is a burial site for indian muslim saints. 

 

Well Sikhs splitting up and not sticking together has pretty much been the history of india and indians! in fact the main reason that india has been conquered by invaders for around 1000 years is because Indian society has been so divided. Shudras used to be murdered or converted and the brahmins used to say good riddance, little did the foolish brahmins know that these very shudras would one day convert to a religion which would threaten the very existence of the hindu dharam. The tables turned and the very people that the brahmins used to call shudras now started calling the brahmins kafirs. 

When the Sikhs desired to burn Ahmad Shah Sirhindi's mosque to the ground, Banda instantly criticized them and halted their endeavors saying that places of worship are neutral in warfare. 

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Please show respect to guru jees family member. Baba Banda Singh bahadur was a great Sikh saint and soldier and I choose to see him that way even though he made few mistakes. 

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13 hours ago, S1ngh said:

Please show respect to guru jees family member. Baba Banda Singh bahadur was a great Sikh saint and soldier and I choose to see him that way even though he made few mistakes. 

Ludicrously, Santa Sio Nang stepped over the bodies of the innocent Sikhs slain in Operation Bluestar to build the "sarkari takhat-" he is a hero; Banda Singh created the first Sikh Raaj, he's a villain.

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banda singh bahadur made mistakes no doubt.....however his shaheedi more than made up for his mistakes.

as babbu maan says......."banda bahadur amar keetha ohdi wafadari ne".

 

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Banda singh bahadhur being a rajput hindu convert to Sikhi for all his faults and flaws as a ordinary human being was a great warrior hero for the Sikh nation. His and the Khalsa's daring adventures and martyrdom eventually lead the path for sikh misls to establish themselves by more daring hit and run attacks on various anti-sikh authorities and within a few decades Sikhs had come together to establish the Sikh empire along with 5 other Sikh kingdom states. If it wasn't for banda singh bahadhur sirhind and various hostile muslim occupied area's would never have got destroyed the muslim populations would never have got forced to run away, be slain in warfare or forced to convert to sikhi and thus Sikhs would have been finished by playing too politically correct being too nice in the face of extreme persecution and extermination by the enemy.

I noticed one thing about hindu converts to Sikhi they tend to be alot more fierce towards Islam and its hostile populations. Whereas Sikhs born into Sikh households tend to be alot more easy going, pluralistic and neutral or balanced when it comes to Islam and dealing with muslims. In times of hostile muslim populations then these type of Sikh converts are very useful but when its times of diplomacy, peace and co-existence they can be a liability as they tend to be still bitter and hateful towards muslims.

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On 7/4/2018 at 12:59 PM, puzzled said:

Some people do say that Banda Singh Bahadur was wrong, I don't know, should be careful of what we say though! he could of been very close to Waheguru for what we know.

Banda Singh ji was definitely a mahapurakh.

There are historical records of Mughals being frightened by his power to cause thunderstorms. The ability to effect the weather in this way is a result of heightened spiritual awareness.

And we know that he was already a Guru and commanded quite a following in Madhya Pradesh, prior to meeting Guru Gobind Singh ji.

So his followers knew he was enlightened, his enemies knew he was enlightened.

We know he was not attached to wealth as he gave all that away after attaining power in North India.

We also know that he was from the Bairagi order, an Order of Saints who believe in total detachment from material things and power. Bhagat Ramanand ji and his sikhs, Kabir ji, Ravidas ji, etc are from that Order of Saints.

So it would not be a surprise if Guru Gobind Singh ji selected him to lead the Khalsa due to these qualities.

His submission and humility during their meeting probably impressed Guru ji as well.

It is the same reason why Guru Nanak Dev ji selected Bhai Lehna ji as the next Guru. (Bhai Lehna ji was also a Guru prior to his meeting with Guru ji.)

So it is not surprising to me that some groups of Sikhs back then started considering Banda Singh ji as the next Guru, as Banda Singh ji's own following was combined with that of Guru ji.

But he was never given the official Gurgaddi by Guruji.

So that whole aspect of our history is a bit messy, where some Sikhs considered him a guru and others did not.

Their conflict was strong enough to the point where some of them abandoned Banda Singh ji, at a critical point, which then lead to his martyrdom.

The story of goat slaughter is probably arising from that tension between the two groups of Sikhs.

I personally can't imagine Guru sahib slaughtering goats in a Sadhu's kutiya but God only knows.

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9 hours ago, Bhagat Singh said:

 

It is the same reason why Guru Nanak Dev ji selected Bhai Lehna ji as the next Guru. (Bhai Lehna ji was also a Guru prior to his meeting with Guru ji.)

 

Please provide the historical text stating this. 

Quote

Their conflict was strong enough to the point where some of them abandoned Banda Singh ji, at a critical point, which then lead to his martyrdom.
 

Except he did say he was the Guru, That's why a hukamnama from Mata Sundri Ji was issued telling Sikhs not to follow him, that's why Sikhs started leaving him in the droves, its why he lost control of his Spiritual powers too as Mata Ji cursed him . No-ones calls him a villain, nor was he one. Ego is a terrible foe, but Baba Ji eventually overcame it and died a true Sikh of Guru Sahib.

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