The people without an identity, Pakistan.

[Gagan1995]

         I have an interesting topic on hand, the people without an identity. It seems like Muslims can't live with Hindus , Christians , Sikhs , Buddhist or anyone non Muslim. That was the clear idea of why Pakistan is a thing right now. When Muslims live in countries with high non Muslim religions , they demand secularism & when they live in countries with non Muslim minorities they demand Sharia. I think we can agree, Pakistan was a big mistake , one of the few big reasons it exists is because of the high mullah populas that existed in India since the Mughal Raj, the Muslim league really couldn't stand the idea of sharing a country with Hindus that they started rioting months before the partition to get their wish, and of course on the Indian side you also had greedy pigs like Nehru, who couldn't stand the thought of having to share power with others [ muslims ] , since he wanted full control over India, he agreed to the partition. That led to the greatest migration of all time with a million casualties. What has happened since ? Oh , just 4 wars , countless millions of deaths , 2 nuclear armed sh^tholes at each other's throat and general hatred . I would've personally been okay with an undivided India , even with Sikhs being an minority in Panjab, because this way most of our historical sites wouldn't have went to the terrorists in west who have left them in shambles. If it were up to me, I would've told the Muslims to either stay in India or migrate to the other 50 Muslims countries in the world . Infact I prefer this plan, I would rather have sent these savages to the middle east , Afganistan , North Africa or a host of other places  before giving them a chunk of Indian land. 

 

 

         That brings me to the second point, even though Sikhism only appeared 500 yrs after Muslims landed in Panjab / India , I feel like Sikhs have fully ingrained themselves into Panjab and have fully embraced it. All Sikh Gurus were Panjabis , all Sikh warriors and legends were Panjabis , infact I don't know of a single famous Sikh who wasn't Panjabi. What I'm Saying is Khalsa and Panjab are one in the same. While Panjabi muslims on the other hand don't really have any heroes of their own . The Mughals were Turks , the invading Durranis were Afgans , and then you have the Persians , who are yet another cucked race of people , but that's topic for another day , also to the point aren't Panjabi either. Infact there isn't a single famous Punjabi Muslim warlord that Pakis could attach their pride on to . Panjabi muslims are infact cucked Panjabi Buddhist and Hindus who were converted by the invading arabs. So you have Pakistan , a country that is majority Punjabi , although many of them aren't really Panjabi by ethnicity, a lot of Bihari / UP / Central indian muslims migrated to Panjab during 47. So a majority Panjabi dominated country , who adopted Urdu , a language of UP bhaiyyas , as Pakis saw this as a " elite " language , lolz . Infact , Panjabi isn't even supported by the schools in Pakistan , I mean  there are schools that teach  Sindhi , Pustun and other regional languages but not Panjabi , the most dominant language spoken by 70 million people . GEEEEZ 

 

 

           Finally, as we seen Pakis disregard the biggest language and ethnicity in their country , that brings me to the last point , Pakistan's history. If anyone has seen forums that showed Pakistan's history books , you would've gotten a laugh. According to Pakistan text books , Pakistan's history starts at the invasion of Sindh by Muhammed Bin Qasim [ National hero but not a paki ], according to the books , Qasim defeated the evil villian Buddhist villion Raja Dahir [ Native Sindh-ian, but not a hero because he's  not a muslim , mind you that 99 percent of the pop of Sindh / Panjab at the time was Hindu / Buddhist ] . Then you have another hero , Ghori , who invaded North India pillaged and slaughtered the soo called Pakistanis in early 11- 15th century . So here we are today, majority of Pakistanis are descent of Hindus , and yet they would tell you that they're arabs and turks and then would proceed to go clean toilets in Saudi Arabia for their arab " bros " , lol . What's funnier to me is Pakistanis would rather be considered part of the arab history , most of which is filled with nothing but poor desert wanderers who didn't have an ego before they discovered oil , vs a indian history filled with early science , first university [ Taxila ] , enlightenment of the great Buddha , countless empires who built modern cities and created modern math , chess and many other wonderful inventions. Here we have it , the people without an identity. 

 

 

On a side note , I noticed that any non muslim country that gets converted to islam turns into a violent and backwards society , Afgan Buddhist < current day ISIS and taliban , Pakistan Hindus < current day failed nation and taliban and many others . Weird huh . 

[MisterrSingh]

The tags, lol.

[Guest]

Am I the only one who smells jealousy here ? Sure pak is no good country and I ain't any fan of it , but you gotta give it to the miyas, they managed to get a country before 1947 to ensure their qaum doesn't suffer in a majoritarian hindu country . Its a known fact that "saare jaha se acha hindustan hamara" was penned by mohammad iqbal , back when hindus and muslims were united against common enemy , the british . However with formation of RSS in 1925 and even before that, the brahminical thought was active , the muslims increasinly felt alienated and many of their visionaries could see the possible bleak future muslims might face in india , and muhammad iqbal who earlier penned "saare jaha se achha.." now penned "muddate bite hai zilat-e-sharm sehte hue , ab toh sharm aati hai iss watan ko apna watan kehte hue" . 

You gotta give it to the lehndis for that one thing though : their leaders weren't sold outs.

Do you envy them ?? (not withstanding that pak today is cesspool , nothing like what jinnah might have imagined lol) 

[MisterrSingh]

Say what you want about them, but their sianneh (I'm talking their political leadership) had the nous to wrangle their own country from the British and the Indians. That's more foresight than our bhondus managed.

[Premi5]

1 hour ago, Gagan1995 said:

         I have an interesting topic on hand, the people without an identity. It seems like Muslims can't live with Hindus , Christians , Sikhs , Buddhist or anyone non Muslim. That was the clear idea of why Pakistan is a thing right now. When Muslims live in countries with high non Muslim religions , they demand secularism & when they live in countries with non Muslim minorities they demand Sharia. I think we can agree, Pakistan was a big mistake , one of the few big reasons it exists is because of the high mullah populas that existed in India since the Mughal Raj, the Muslim league really couldn't stand the idea of sharing a country with Hindus that they started rioting months before the partition to get their wish, and of course on the Indian side you also had greedy pigs like Nehru, who couldn't stand the thought of having to share power with others [ muslims ] , since he wanted full control over India, he agreed to the partition. That led to the greatest migration of all time with a million casualties. What has happened since ? Oh , just 4 wars , countless millions of deaths , 2 nuclear armed sh^tholes at each other's throat and general hatred . I would've personally been okay with an undivided India , even with Sikhs being an minority in Panjab, because this way most of our historical sites wouldn't have went to the terrorists in west who have left them in shambles. If it were up to me, I would've told the Muslims to either stay in India or migrate to the other 50 Muslims countries in the world . Infact I prefer this plan, I would rather have sent these savages to the middle east , Afganistan , North Africa or a host of other places  before giving them a chunk of Indian land. 

 

 

         That brings me to the second point, even though Sikhism only appeared 500 yrs after Muslims landed in Panjab / India , I feel like Sikhs have fully ingrained themselves into Panjab and have fully embraced it. All Sikh Gurus were Panjabis , all Sikh warriors and legends were Panjabis , infact I don't know of a single famous Sikh who wasn't Panjabi. What I'm Saying is Khalsa and Panjab are one in the same. While Panjabi muslims on the other hand don't really have any heroes of their own . The Mughals were Turks , the invading Durranis were Afgans , and then you have the Persians , who are yet another cucked race of people , but that's topic for another day , also to the point aren't Panjabi either. Infact there isn't a single famous Punjabi Muslim warlord that Pakis could attach their pride on to . Panjabi muslims are infact cucked Panjabi Buddhist and Hindus who were converted by the invading arabs. So you have Pakistan , a country that is majority Punjabi , although many of them aren't really Panjabi by ethnicity, a lot of Bihari / UP / Central indian muslims migrated to Panjab during 47. So a majority Panjabi dominated country , who adopted Urdu , a language of UP bhaiyyas , as Pakis saw this as a " elite " language , lolz . Infact , Panjabi isn't even supported by the schools in Pakistan , I mean  there are schools that teach  Sindhi , Pustun and other regional languages but not Panjabi , the most dominant language spoken by 70 million people . GEEEEZ 

 

 

           Finally, as we seen Pakis disregard the biggest language and ethnicity in their country , that brings me to the last point , Pakistan's history. If anyone has seen forums that showed Pakistan's history books , you would've gotten a laugh. According to Pakistan text books , Pakistan's history starts at the invasion of Sindh by Muhammed Bin Qasim [ National hero but not a paki ], according to the books , Qasim defeated the evil villian Buddhist villion Raja Dahir [ Native Sindh-ian, but not a hero because he's  not a muslim , mind you that 99 percent of the pop of Sindh / Panjab at the time was Hindu / Buddhist ] . Then you have another hero , Ghori , who invaded North India pillaged and slaughtered the soo called Pakistanis in early 11- 15th century . So here we are today, majority of Pakistanis are descent of Hindus , and yet they would tell you that they're arabs and turks and then would proceed to go clean toilets in Saudi Arabia for their arab " bros " , lol . What's funnier to me is Pakistanis would rather be considered part of the arab history , most of which is filled with nothing but poor desert wanderers who didn't have an ego before they discovered oil , vs a indian history filled with early science , first university [ Taxila ] , enlightenment of the great Buddha , countless empires who built modern cities and created modern math , chess and many other wonderful inventions. Here we have it , the people without an identity. 

 

 

On a side note , I noticed that any non muslim country that gets converted to islam turns into a violent and backwards society , Afgan Buddhist < current day ISIS and taliban , Pakistan Hindus < current day failed nation and taliban and many others . Weird huh . 

Some very good and valid points. But don’t think even at the most Pakistan was ever ‘majority’ Punjabi, although it’s most fervent supporters are . 

The Mughals were ‘turks’ but really from Mongolia area. 

Also, a lot of famous non-Punjabi Sikhs like some of Panj Piare and Baba Banda Singh Bahadur . 

What does cucked mean please? 

[Ranjeet01]

Islam is a political movement rather than a religion and that is why the muslims were able to wrest a country for themselves. 

Because every thing they do has politics filter it gives them a headstart. 

Their world view is muslim vs non muslim so therefore that is how they approach things. 

We are political ourselves but our political nous is inverse. 

By this I mean we will scr** over our fellow Sikhs but lay down with non Sikhs.

We have to reverse this somehow. 

[proactive]

7 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Say what you want about them, but their sianneh (I'm talking their political leadership) had the nous to wrangle their own country from the British and the Indians. That's more foresight than our bhondus managed.

There was nothing amazing in Muslims getting their own country, they had majorities in the areas that became Pakistan. They had a population of 95 Million. Compare it with the Sikhs being a minority in every district of Punjab and having only 5.6 Million population. Had the Sikhs had the same population as the Muslims then I am sure they would have got an independent Sikh state in 1947.

If you want to compare the Sikhs with another community have achieved independence then that would have to be the Jews. The Sikh leadership in 1947 no doubt was much inferior to the Jewish leadership in Palestine. 

[MisterrSingh]

27 minutes ago, proactive said:

There was nothing amazing in Muslims getting their own country, they had majorities in the areas that became Pakistan. They had a population of 95 Million. Compare it with the Sikhs being a minority in every district of Punjab and having only 5.6 Million population. Had the Sikhs had the same population as the Muslims then I am sure they would have got an independent Sikh state in 1947.

If you want to compare the Sikhs with another community have achieved independence then that would have to be the Jews. The Sikh leadership in 1947 no doubt was much inferior to the Jewish leadership in Palestine. 

Don't you think we had somewhat of a stronger hand, at least in terms of perception? We should've constantly been in the ears of the British reminding them of our role in their Imperial escapades. Yes, it might've been a little demeaning, especially for a proud people, but if it meant a country of our own at the end of it all, then why be so coy? The population aspect is valid but not the complete picture. Think Monaco, Switzerland, Luxembourg, etc. Why not a principality: should've pushed some obscure Sikh maharaja as the face of our own homeland movement, and then decades into the future makes plans to enact democratic reform? The possibilities were there for the taking. It just needed imagination and a certain selfishness in the best possible sense of the word.

[proactive]

True, the we had the potential to create a Sikh state had the leadership been more determined but placing any hope of the British was a big mistake just as trusting Hindu leaders like MK Gandhi and Nehru. Just as the Hindu leaders hoodwinked our leadership with their verbal assurances of a Sikh autonomous state, the British also convinced the Sikhs to accept partition without any of the 'other factors' in the terms of reference of Radcliffe being defined. 

Had our leaders held firm and refused to accept anything short of a Sikh state comprising 27.7% of the Punjab, that being the percentage of land that we owned in Punjab the British would have  just quit and then there would have been a civil war and with a determined leadership and with the Sikh states there is no doubt that we would have achieved our 27.7% of share of Punjab as our state. That 27.7% of the British Punjab and the Sikh states would have meant that we would have had the majority of our historic Gurdwaras in the Sikh state. 

Our leadership  by trusting the British to look after our interests allowed the British to sell us down the river and we became the lambs that the British sacrificed without any qualms in order to maintain good relations with both the Hindus and Muslims. 

[TejS]

You make some very good points, but I disagree with the assertion that Pakistanis don't have an identity. They do, and it's them being Muslims through and through. It's something I hope our people will do as well, and choose Sikhi over our Punjabi identity.

Here's the thing, the Punjabi identity that we all seem to cherish is also the creation of the Mughals. From clothing to food, from language to our ethnic identity, all has had an overwhelming amount of Mughal/Persianate influence. Heck, even the name Punjab/Punjabi was given to us by Jahangir. 

It's for these reasons I think many Sikhs also stray away from their Punjabi identity. Punjabiyat and Punjabi is also an identity that has only been fully realized recently, the 18th century. 

If I could have a say for all our people, I would go the route of the Pakistanis, and have all of us identify solely as Sikhs over Punjabis. Language doesn't matter, as long as you can read the Guru Granth Sahib.