Why aren't British Sikhs as active/engaged as their Canadian counterparts in politics?

[GareebSikh1699]

2 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

it does not change the fact dalits are mistreated in your state. Some dalits

All sincere Sikhs condemn such discrimination. Sikhi is 100% built upon condemnation and eradication of all discrimination. In contrast Islam clearly promotes and legitimises discrimination.

When you can't give equality to you own mazhabi sikhs

Sikh history lionizes Sikhs of erstwhile Mazhabi ancestry as Sikhi eradicates caste. Our our Guru Sahib stated "rangrete Guru ke bete" (All the oppressed are the Guru's children). Contrast their status with how dalits are treated in west Punjab and everyone will say that east Punjab is the best state in all of India and Pakistan for dalit rights purely because of Sikhi's influence. So quite clearly the average innocent Muslim or indeed dalit Muslims and dalits of Pakistan generally will be far better off as Sikhs or Buddhists as opposed to continued oppression under Islam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x0ZXKVzanQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykSp9A6lX5Y

Like I said:

No wonder Dalits consider Sikhi as their beloved religion as:

One of the bravest Sikh shaheeds acknowledged in history was from an erstwhile Bhangi ("sweeper") and new (Bihari) Gurmukh background - Shaheed Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji.

 

80% of the Panj Piare (first baptised GurSikhs) were originally from oppressed Dalit backgrounds outside of Punjab.

 

Every Sikhs bows down to Bhagats whom Hindu's and Muslims consider as Dalits - Dhan Dhan Baba Ravidas Ji Maharaj and Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj.

The Sikh Fauj was led by an erstwhile Dalit (new Khalsa) commander over 300 years ago in the leadership (bestowed by Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj) upon Shaheed Bhai Sangat Singh.

Half of the Sikh misls which succeeded in freeing non-Muslims from terrorist Muslim rule in the 18th century were led by erstwhile Dalit background (new Khalsa) commanders.

Pakistani's refer to Bhai Mardana Ji as a "kanjar" simply for being from a dalit background with Muslim parentage - in contrast ALL Sikhs see Bhai Mardana Ji as the highest of the high for being the first Sikhs.

That says it all about the stark difference between Sikhi and Islam.

[jkvlondon]

5 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Only if Paul A. Brass is Pakistani.here is an excerpt from his article
In February 1967, however, Master Tara Singh, whom I interviewed then and who was the
principal political leader of the Sikh community 20 years earlier, said to me in
words I have never forgotten: “We took the decision to turn the Muslims out.”
By this, he meant the decision to attack violently the Muslim population in East
Punjab to force them to migrate west so that the entire Sikh population in West
Punjab would be able to migrate east to replace them and take their lands and
property in exchange for what they would lose in the west.

 

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/77f1/d2b9735df0283aa1f3af94eafa6ae701d7e4.pdf

1.  
2. The partition of India and
   retributive genocide in the Punjab,
   1946–47: means, methods, and
   purposes
    

 

very few muslims were landowners this is a fact brought out by the sneering comment to sikh refugees in Delhi by Nehru when they asked where will we live ?  'take the land that Muslims left '....there was very little and the Hindus were given first choice thus the switch to Hindu dominance in previous muslim dominant regions .  Tara 'singh' was a brahmin plant and to some extent a vegetable ...

[imhosingh]

Canada is different to the UK in one major respect. It is not £1.5tn in debt to big global financial firms/other governments. Politicians in the UK can do very little as they have no money to spend and what money they can spend has to be in line with what their lenders agree too (if the politicians decide to say decrease spend on HS2 and divert that to the NHS they will basically push up the cost of their borrowing/default on borrowing covenants). The UK government has a credit rating which it has to maintain otherwise politicians can't borrow money (and keep themselves in office). Thats why politics is a waste of time, unless you want to make changes on a low level like reducing plastic bag use. Politicians are their for ego, and the higher you go the more you realise how powerless you are. If you want to change Britain, become a billionaire and then use that money to buy politicians/gang up with other billionairres/firms to tell the government what to do.

[TejS]

On 7/17/2018 at 3:01 AM, jkvlondon said:

we can see what is happening in Canada , sikh drug gangs , students fighting with other sikhs , truth is the Canada sikhs have enough on their plate trying to manage their image being spoiled by the druggie unpard attitudes of the Punjab influx. We may have to deal with musle but truth is Canada is not any less musle affected

You just reaffirmed why British Sikhs should immigrate to Canada: you are collectively more educated. With the kind of education you guys have, you can better the Sikh influence in Canada. Also, there are way more opportunities to fill up in Canada than there are available in Britain. You don't all have to immigrate to Ontario or Vancouver (where there are problems with Sikhs that you have identified which will smooth over in a generation or two), you can go to other provinces and establish influence there. Now is the perfect time to do so.

And it's not even about Muslims. I'm not saying you people should move away from the UK because of Muslims haha. I'm saying its better to pool our influence into one country than to be spread out sparsely. And Sikhs in Canada have the lead in terms of influence and leadership over their other Sikh counterparts, so it's better to migrate over there. I don't see what's wrong with this exactly, it's not like Britain is our ancestral jameen lol that we can't part from it. 

[TejS]

12 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

As far as riots of partition are concerned. You people were just looking for an excuse.Tara Singh stated in one of his interviews in 1967 that they (the sikhs) had taken the decision to wipe out Muslims from east Punjab so that Sikhs from West Punjab can be brought to settle in East Punjab.So Sikh leadership all along had made up their mind to massacre East Punjabi Muslims and drive them out.So you see your people are not an innocent party here.

Okay now this is completely wrong and false. Even your own sensible Pakistani scholars such as Ishtiaq Ahmed admit that it was Muslims that began the killings of Sikhs/Hindus in Rawalpindi/North Punjab. Large-scale mass killings also began in West Punjab with killings of Sikhs/Hindus. Any action taken in East Punjab by Sikhs/Hindus was in retaliation. 

If the Sikhs had decided to wipe out Muslims in East Punjab as the Muslims actually did for Sikhs/Hindus, there would be no Muslims left in East Punjab at all today. Look at the demographics in East Punjab and you will see that there are still more than 500,000 ethnic Punjabi Muslims living there. And mind you, they are treated without any hostility. The same can't be said for the meager 50,000 Sikhs in all of Pakistan that despite holding iftars for poor Muslims get murdered in daylight, like Charanjeet Singh. 

The truth is that Pakistani Muslims are hostile to anything non-Islamic from the very beginning, and the effect of it can still be felt today where Pakistani Sikhs, Christians and even Ahmadi Muslims are being killed. 

[TejS]

23 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

Islam, Sikhism ,Christianity all say that no body should be discriminated on the basis of caste (at least that is what i have heard) but people rarely follow this teaching and Before telling me how dalits are mistreated by Hindus and Muslims have a look at their miserable condition in Punjab.Have you given them equal respect that you are taunting Muslims and Hindus ? I watched a video a year ago where dalits were refused entry into a Gurudwara in Punjab.Take care of that first.

Sikh Dalits have been treated way better than Muslim low castes historically. Mazhabi Sikhs have been glorified in Sikh history. If you folk are so egalitarian, I'd like to see you all marry your daughters to Muslim low castes. But instead you all deride them as "chamars" or "churas" in Pakistan. Some Jatts in East Punjab have actually reformed their casteist beliefs and have given sections of their lands to Sikh Dalits to work on and make a living from. Unlike West Punjab, East Punjab has actually enabled quotas for Dalits to prosper given their disadvantaged social standing. 

And as for discrimination of Dalits in places of religious worship, well Islam is no better: http://islamicvoice.com/untouchability-among-muslims/

[TejS]

Quote

Well I may not believe in religious tenets of Islam but I do see myself as cultural Muslim.

You mean culturally Arab, even though the Arabs do not hold you equal. 

Quote

nope it was created to escape the economic domination of hindus and Sikhs. Mullah were against the creation of Paskitan. These idiots thought that they could convert/take over all of Hindustan without realizing that if centuries of Muslim rule did not make it Muslim majority how will you do it in a democratic Hindustan where you will be junior partner in power. The man leading Muslim league wasn't a bit religious.

So why not just convert to be a Hindu or Sikh to be a part of that economic domination? Wasn't that one of the reasons people in the past converted to Islam during the Islamic heyday?

So, according to you, all you guys are doing through Pakistan is propagating Arabic culture instead of your own for economic reasons? Kind of seems spineless and shallow to me.

[Ranjeet01]

1 hour ago, TejS said:

You just reaffirmed why British Sikhs should immigrate to Canada: you are collectively more educated. With the kind of education you guys have, you can better the Sikh influence in Canada. Also, there are way more opportunities to fill up in Canada than there are available in Britain. You don't all have to immigrate to Ontario or Vancouver (where there are problems with Sikhs that you have identified which will smooth over in a generation or two), you can go to other provinces and establish influence there. Now is the perfect time to do so.

And it's not even about Muslims. I'm not saying you people should move away from the UK because of Muslims haha. I'm saying its better to pool our influence into one country than to be spread out sparsely. And Sikhs in Canada have the lead in terms of influence and leadership over their other Sikh counterparts, so it's better to migrate over there. I don't see what's wrong with this exactly, it's not like Britain is our ancestral jameen lol that we can't part from it. 

For many British Sikhs, the appeal of Canada would be the less proximity of Muslim or at least Pakistani Muslim. 

For many British Sikh, that factor alone would improve their quality of life.

However, once you get past that Canada does not hold much appeal.

For all the Sikhs from UK that do move to Canada, a large proportion do move back.

For the type of immigration you are looking for to make the impact you think it would make, something drastic would need to hapen in the UK.

[TejS]

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

For many British Sikhs, the appeal of Canada would be the less proximity of Muslim or at least Pakistani Muslim. 

For many British Sikh, that factor alone would improve their quality of life.

Is it really that bad over there?

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

However, once you get past that Canada does not hold much appeal.

For all the Sikhs from UK that do move to Canada, a large proportion do move back.

Why is that? North America in general has far more opportunities than Britain. You have to fight harder in Britain for your fair share than in North America, from what I've experienced. 

[jkvlondon]

13 hours ago, YOYO29 said:

This requires a detail discussion and I won't be able to do justice with this topic as I have to work on my presentation.I will get back to you tomorrow.

it is false that those who convert to islam from dalit circles are treated better they are still mistreated