I wish that in the past Sikh British Prisoners 1849 - 1947 were sent to Australia.

[GareebSikh1699]

On 7/20/2018 at 5:18 AM, GuestSingh said:

Points 2, 4 and 5 can be achieved through just point 3 which is the key imo.

I totally agree with you for sure and most of what you say above.

By exposing the poor youth/elders to eastern and western knowledge, their thinking will change and they will see a purpose in life i.e. a job to provide for their family.

Exactly kirat karna is a fundamental basic of Sikhi instead of drinking alcohol or doing drugs as songs encourage etc

This could reduce or even avoid use of drugs and alcohol....and when the uneducated/misinformed see females in professional jobs, they would see they have worth and start to think differently.

Ironically, females are already outperforming males at higher education levels with many hardworking young Sikh females having gotten pukkeh in Canada, Australia and New Zealand through hard work.

As for the wasters they have to be put to work for community seva by local Panj Piare in every pind. If the British could rule India with a few men but we cannot uplift the state of our own people then what we are saying that Panj Piare don't exist in all the pinds where these problems are most rampant.

With land so low in groundwater and already infected with pollutants and cancerous toxins/chemicals, there must be investment in farming/infrastructure otherwise Panjab could soon become the land of no rivers. Water is the source of life - without it, what can exist?

And the thing is the scientists at Punjab Agricultural University etc know the solutions but are prevented from implementing them from those whom it suits to see the Sikh Qaum destroyed (Hindutva RSS forces).

There are a couple of organic farming initiatives in Panjab and throughout the country but more could be made. By growing good vegetables/fruit in season along with nuts/seeds and  herbs/spices, they would have sustenance to stay alive but natural medicine to become stronger and reduce dependency on expensive treatment. Food is medicine. That could reduce point 5.

Exactly + a sister here had some great ideas relating to this too.

Now please can we just focus on helping on our own first.

We absolutely have to. If we are not strong ourselves we cannot help others. Given the last 34 years of temporary defeat we have suffered we need to focus on undoing the last 34years of infinite damage done and focus on the younger generations coming up being educated and strong and knowledgeable about Sikhi.

You say we shouldn't fantatise uselessly but aren't you doing that when saying sarbat da bhalla

No - Sarbat da Bhala is the fundamental motto and one of the guiding principles of Sikhi. The Khalsa Panth has to represent for all the oppressed and the weak who have no one to help them. Of course non-Amritdhari Sikhs are not bound by this restriction from Panj Piare.

Sikhi for billions etc.

This has got to be the very long term aim. If we can grow the Sikh Panth to even 100million strong in this century that would be great progress compared to where we have sunk today.

In the next 3years we could find ourselves a minority in east Punjab so we can forget thinking about billions in the short term. But the reality is that in the internet age everyone will have access to information.

And if billions follow religions such as Christianity and Islam which condone and allow slavery to be perpetrated against fellow human beings then it is clear that Sikhi needs to supplant Christianity, Islam and Hinduism as the main religion to help bring equality and justice to all humanity.

when many of those billions do not give a damn about us?

No, don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating that we focus our efforts on Bengali speakers who illegally infiltrated Myanmar in the last 100 years or assisting Sunni supporters of Islamic State in Syria.

But the whole reason Guru Sahib created the Khalsa Panth was to give shelter to the oppressed and weak who have no one to help them. And for those who have no support in Punjab primarily but also throughout the poorest parts of India and Africa where new Sikhs will most likely arise from we have to play our part bearing in mind that if we are weak ourselves we cannot help others effectively.

500 years after Guru Nanak's travels to spread the word of Sikhi beyond the Punjabi people we as Sikhs have miserably failed to spread the message whilst crooked pastors and imams have fraudulently converted millions that they secretly despise in the last 70 years. We have to realise that 66% of Punjabi's are Muslims so focussing on Punjabi's to be the new source of Sikhs is not the best approach.

Sikhi needs to be entrusted to those who can appreciate it rather than those who would rather shoot up smack, discriminate on the basis of jaath-paath, divide our Gurughars or abort their daughter.

Many living in the west aren't living with the same pain as those in poverty so why see them as equal? Put our people who are suffering and in need first.

Agreed we don't need to focus on doing seva for Europeans or Muslims who between them control most of the world's economic and oil wealth. There are enough problems in east Punjab for us to address first.

But given that 80% of our Panj Piare came from Gujarat, Karnataka, Orissa, Uttar Pardesh we cannot ignore seva and parchar in the poorest parts of India and Africa.

As currently only 3 people in every 1,000 on the planet are Sikh and that has to change if the Khalsa Panth is to live up to its true remit of seva for Sarbat da Bhala globally. 

And those of us in Canada and the States 100% need to play our part to help First Nations and African American brothers and sisters in particular be assisted by the Truth which is Sikhi via volunteer work (when we are not doing seva in Punjab).

Feel we need to regroup and become stronger as a community rather than try to tackle all our problems at once and become overwhelmed, confused and just give up.

Agreed. We need to rebuild, regroup and make our Panth stronger step by step. Focussing on shouting slogans once a year or building statues (of those that opposed such display) or pointless yatra's to Pakistan whilst our gareeb Sikh brethren sink deeper into the mire each year since 1984 is simply not good enough.

Anybody travelling to Pakistan on luxury tours to enrich the Pakistani Government - whilst poor Sikhs cannot be funded to get cancer treatment should be made to feel ashamed of themself.

Those sehajdhari's sitting in New York busy getting kesdhari youth in Punjab locked up in jail for sedition charges relating to pie in the sky referendums need to take a look at the census projections which show us as Sikhs on track to become a minority in Punjab by either the 2021 census or the 2031 census.

Before we can think of bigger steps we must ensure that there is only one united Gurdwara in each pind and locality in the West.

100% literacy amongst tomorrow's Sikh youth will pay us better dividends than stupid statues or ridiculous multi million expenditures on new gold plated Gurdwara's that we don't need.

 

[Guest GuestSingh]

On 7/21/2018 at 7:05 AM, GareebSikh1699 said:

We absolutely have to. If we are not strong ourselves we cannot help others. Given the last 34 years of temporary defeat we have suffered we need to focus on undoing the last 34years of infinite damage done and focus on the younger generations coming up being educated and strong and knowledgeable about Sikhi.

That's the problem - most of us aren't even that strong even if we try to keep up appearances and impress.

Fact is a lot of youth find Sikhi boring, they have no appetite for Waheguru  - even 'Amritdhari' ones, especially the youth, will keep making mistakes and keep asking for forgiveness. Amrit is just a game to them because they're not yet mentally mature to live such a lifestyle.

No - Sarbat da Bhala is the fundamental motto and one of the guiding principles of Sikhi. The Khalsa Panth has to represent for all the oppressed and the weak who have no one to help them. Of course non-Amritdhari Sikhs are not bound by this restriction from Panj Piare.

The people on western streets that some of the community like to help so much may be weak but they aren't being oppressed and they do have someone to help them - the welfare state.

If they don't want to take jobs that require no qualifications/experience because they think its beneath them and just wait for free food, that's up to them.

This has got to be the very long term aim. If we can grow the Sikh Panth to even 100million strong in this century that would be great progress compared to where we have sunk today.

In the next 3years we could find ourselves a minority in east Punjab so we can forget thinking about billions in the short term. But the reality is that in the internet age everyone will have access to information.

And if billions follow religions such as Christianity and Islam which condone and allow slavery to be perpetrated against fellow human beings then it is clear that Sikhi needs to supplant Christianity, Islam and Hinduism as the main religion to help bring equality and justice to all humanity.

You broke up my sentence and re-posted it out of context to suit your posts.

Anyway, the chitteh like to say 'charity starts at home'.....well for wishy-washy 'Sikhs', charity starts abroad/internationally only but may finish at home when there is little to nothing left for both sides.

The most obvious and logical action is to save Panjab first then focus on spreading to other states - the martyrs of 1984 didn't shed blood in Panjab for the idea of Khalistan to only ever remain a idea. See Baba Manochahal's letter.....

As we know, a seed doesn't grow from the leaves but from the roots....

No, don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating that we focus our efforts on Bengali speakers who illegally infiltrated Myanmar in the last 100 years or assisting Sunni supporters of Islamic State in Syria.

But the whole reason Guru Sahib created the Khalsa Panth was to give shelter to the oppressed and weak who have no one to help them. And for those who have no support in Punjab primarily but also throughout the poorest parts of India and Africa where new Sikhs will most likely arise from we have to play our part bearing in mind that if we are weak ourselves we cannot help others effectively.

500 years after Guru Nanak's travels to spread the word of Sikhi beyond the Punjabi people we as Sikhs have miserably failed to spread the message whilst crooked pastors and imams have fraudulently converted millions that they secretly despise in the last 70 years. We have to realise that 66% of Punjabi's are Muslims so focussing on Punjabi's to be the new source of Sikhs is not the best approach.

Sikhi needs to be entrusted to those who can appreciate it rather than those who would rather shoot up smack, discriminate on the basis of jaath-paath, divide our Gurughars or abort their daughter.

Yes, what they are doing is wrong and idiotic but so easy for us in our western comforts/distractions to judge these people when we haven't lived their lives, experiences, day-to-day suffering. If we did, how many of us would be same people or even still be here?

Panjab is the oldest source of Sikhs - you don't need a fool like myself to tell you the remains of Sikh history most and easily accessible to Sikhs remains in Panjab therefore it should be a priority for Sikhs, unless the land that our Gurus and martyrs walked on is not seen to have any value by certain people....

Like a dying plant, it just needs nourishment to grow again... with some natural pesticide to kill the enemies and keep them away.

Agreed we don't need to focus on doing seva for Europeans or Muslims who between them control most of the world's economic and oil wealth. There are enough problems in east Punjab for us to address first.

Tell that to the Panjabis also mentioned above who go out of their way to serve their white masters in any way possible to appease and impress while making a mockery of themselves and the principles of Sikhi. Jokers.

My back will always be turned to the white devil and yeah that would make it easier for them to stab in the back again, along with the suleh, but yes, without a doubt, Panjab comes first.

But given that 80% of our Panj Piare came from Gujarat, Karnataka, Orissa, Uttar Pardesh we cannot ignore seva and parchar in the poorest parts of India and Africa.

Yes, spreading Sikhi throughout the states should continue to be the mission....

Agreed. We need to rebuild, regroup and make our Panth stronger step by step. Focussing on shouting slogans once a year or building statues (of those that opposed such display) or pointless yatra's to Pakistan whilst our gareeb Sikh brethren sink deeper into the mire each year since 1984 is simply not good enough.

Anybody travelling to Pakistan on luxury tours to enrich the Pakistani Government - whilst poor Sikhs cannot be funded to get cancer treatment should be made to feel ashamed of themself.

Those sehajdhari's sitting in New York busy getting kesdhari youth in Punjab locked up in jail for sedition charges relating to pie in the sky referendums need to take a look at the census projections which show us as Sikhs on track to become a minority in Punjab by either the 2021 census or the 2031 census.

Before we can think of bigger steps we must ensure that there is only one united Gurdwara in each pind and locality in the West.

100% literacy amongst tomorrow's Sikh youth will pay us better dividends than stupid statues or ridiculous multi million expenditures on new gold plated Gurdwara's that we don't need.

Agreed.