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An interesting note. All the cult deras in Panjab/Haryana were started by former Sikhs.


Gagan1995
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1 hour ago, puzzled said:

I agree with the person that says its mostly women. Women are the ones that go to babeh and then they drag their families in as well. But obviously in today's politically correct society you can't say that, you would just get labelled as sexist. Women are without fault and its wrong to criticism them! but yes they are allowed to bring men down however and whenever they like 

It is a fact that the Dera and Baba are very popular amongst women but there is valid reason for this.  The culture in Punjab is very much in the favour of men and more so amongst the lower social classes.  Men go out to work and women pretty much nurture the children and look after the house.  Most men whether from higher social classes or lower have one thing in common which is alcohol and substance abuse.  

When a man goes to work with instructions of bringing groceries on the way home but detours to the theka (liquor store) and blows his day wage on booze and comes home drunk facing questions....  You know the story!... domestic violence and deprived children.  No one listens to women or cares in these situations in Punjab and the only people to step in is the Dera and Baba.  In the Eighties women used to go to Sant Ji and drag their men in front of the Singhs and this why Sikhi was growing at such a fast rate. The Dera automatically dies when women’s issues are taken care of and financial issues are mostly resolved when one kicks the bottle.

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14 minutes ago, TigerForce1 said:

It is a fact that the Dera and Baba are very popular amongst women but there is valid reason for this.  The culture in Punjab is very much in the favour of men and more so amongst the lower social classes.  Men go out to work and women pretty much nurture the children and look after the house.  Most men whether from higher social classes or lower have one thing in common which is alcohol and substance abuse.  

When a man goes to work with instructions of bringing groceries on the way home but detours to the theka (liquor store) and blows his day wage on booze and comes home drunk facing questions....  You know the story!... domestic violence and deprived children.  No one listens to women or cares in these situations in Punjab and the only people to step in is the Dera and Baba.  In the Eighties women used to go to Sant Ji and drag their men in front of the Singhs and this why Sikhi was growing at such a fast rate. The Dera automatically dies when women’s issues are taken care of and financial issues are mostly resolved when one kicks the bottle.

I agree many women go to babeh/mata's to cure their alcoholic husbands, my mami did the same, but many go for other reasons too. In india people are superstitious, whenever anything goes wrong or not as planned it automatically means that "someones done something" so they go running to these babeh. In gurdwareh and in shrines/tombs people have left plastic toy aeroplanes in the hope that their kids will go abroad! They do matha tek and then leave a plastic aeroplane on the golak. once again all this stuff is done by the ladies. My pathetic mama flew to india under his wife and sister in laws advise and built a snake shrine because some snakes ghost was angry and haunting everyone!   

These days its not just babeh but there are many mata's too 

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44 minutes ago, puzzled said:

I agree many women go to babeh/mata's to cure their alcoholic husbands, my mami did the same, but many go for other reasons too. In india people are superstitious, whenever anything goes wrong or not as planned it automatically means that "someones done something" so they go running to these babeh. In gurdwareh and in shrines/tombs people have left plastic toy aeroplanes in the hope that their kids will go abroad! They do matha tek and then leave a plastic aeroplane on the golak. once again all this stuff is done by the ladies. My pathetic mama flew to india under his wife and sister in laws advise and built a snake shrine because some snakes ghost was angry and haunting everyone!   

These days its not just babeh but there are many mata's too 

Agreed!  Too much superstition and the nonsense rituals to go with it.  A lot of it has to do with low literacy and backward customs.  In the West these type superstitious beliefs in witchcract and ghosts etc were prevalent about 100 years ago and as people beacame more literate these beliefs vanished.  You rarely hear of this nonsense in developed western countries but always hear of nonsense UFO sightings and Alien encounters.  Basically the West is full of Aliens and the South East Asian countries are full of Ghosts and God like holy men.  When you start hearing of UFO’s in Punjab you can safely say that the people are now literate but are now wackos who are still lacking in the truth.  When the UFO sightings vanish maybe then we can say that people are now slowly becoming Sikh like and see the whole bigger picture in regards to creation and the creator.

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9 hours ago, puzzled said:

I agree many women go to babeh/mata's to cure their alcoholic husbands, my mami did the same, but many go for other reasons too. In india people are superstitious, whenever anything goes wrong or not as planned it automatically means that "someones done something" so they go running to these babeh. In gurdwareh and in shrines/tombs people have left plastic toy aeroplanes in the hope that their kids will go abroad! They do matha tek and then leave a plastic aeroplane on the golak. once again all this stuff is done by the ladies. My pathetic mama flew to india under his wife and sister in laws advise and built a snake shrine because some snakes ghost was angry and haunting everyone!   

These days its not just babeh but there are many mata's too 

Are you married with children?

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13 hours ago, TigerForce1 said:

It is a fact that the Dera and Baba are very popular amongst women but there is valid reason for this.  The culture in Punjab is very much in the favour of men and more so amongst the lower social classes.  Men go out to work and women pretty much nurture the children and look after the house.  Most men whether from higher social classes or lower have one thing in common which is alcohol and substance abuse.  

When a man goes to work with instructions of bringing groceries on the way home but detours to the theka (liquor store) and blows his day wage on booze and comes home drunk facing questions....  You know the story!... domestic violence and deprived children.  No one listens to women or cares in these situations in Punjab and the only people to step in is the Dera and Baba.  In the Eighties women used to go to Sant Ji and drag their men in front of the Singhs and this why Sikhi was growing at such a fast rate. The Dera automatically dies when women’s issues are taken care of and financial issues are mostly resolved when one kicks the bottle.

Tiger

Are you married with kids?

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1 hour ago, puzzled said:

LOL no  I'm 25, unmarried, no children 

Sorry the question was meant for TigerForce.

These type of topics are seen from a fem-centric point of view.

We are quick to point that men drink and abuse their spouses etc, but we never look at what causes this in the first place.

My father was a heavy drinker and used to cause problems with my mother. It was not something I liked very much but I asked my father why he drank so much and he said, "I do not wish to live"

The fact of the matter is that a great many of our men attempt to kill themselves slowly through alcohol, I suspect that many of our menfolk have great bouts of depression.

There is a burden of expectation and performance that is specific to  men that most women will not comprehend. 

When these women go to see babeh, they are not looking to help their menfolk they are looking to see how it benefits themselves.

They are not addressing what the real problem is.

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Sorry the question was meant for TigerForce.

These type of topics are seen from a fem-centric point of view.

We are quick to point that men drink and abuse their spouses etc, but we never look at what causes this in the first place.

My father was a heavy drinker and used to cause problems with my mother. It was not something I liked very much but I asked my father why he drank so much and he said, "I do not wish to live"

The fact of the matter is that a great many of our men attempt to kill themselves slowly through alcohol, I suspect that many of our menfolk have great bouts of depression.

There is a burden of expectation and performance that is specific to  men that most women will not comprehend. 

When these women go to see babeh, they are not looking to help their menfolk they are looking to see how it benefits themselves.

They are not addressing what the real problem is.

 

 

 

 

 

of course you are an expert in all domestic situations from that one example . Fact 60% of households in Punjab now have someone with a drug problem , 100% have the problem of rampant male chauvanism based on nothing more than bruaah culture . Bibian get 100% of the blame for whatever problems occur whether it is with children or husband acting up, or even sass saura being nasty despite it being generated by those parties because they have their own faults and ego drives . It may be a few who are subjected to physical violence but all subjected to mental abuse , verbal abuse by the general culture even to the extent that if they are raped it's their fault . When life is going to hell in a handbasket they are expected to smooth over and make good everyone else's lives , sacrificing everything in that endeavour, I'm sure plenty would love to leave the world too like their selfish husbands do but they know that they have to look after the kids .

It is the evil MEN and Women who know that sikh women will put money in their golak if they are spoken to in similar ways as Gurbani in fact  that is the major base of many of these operations using Gurbani to entice ... they pretend to put balms on their mental hurt meanwhile fleecing them in their naivete.

simply put, dere will only close when all sikh bibian get full support, knowledge and access to Gurbani and Gurdwarey roles

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12 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

of course you are an expert in all domestic situations from that one example . Fact 60% of households in Punjab now have someone with a drug problem , 100% have the problem of rampant male chauvanism based on nothing more than bruaah culture . Bibian get 100% of the blame for whatever problems occur whether it is with children or husband acting up, or even sass saura being nasty despite it being generated by those parties because they have their own faults and ego drives . It may be a few who are subjected to physical violence but all subjected to mental abuse , verbal abuse by the general culture even to the extent that if they are raped it's their fault . When life is going to hell in a handbasket they are expected to smooth over and make good everyone else's lives , sacrificing everything in that endeavour, I'm sure plenty would love to leave the world too like their selfish husbands do but they know that they have to look after the kids .

It is the evil MEN and Women who know that sikh women will put money in their golak if they are spoken to in similar ways as Gurbani in fact  that is the major base of many of these operations using Gurbani to entice ... they pretend to put balms on their mental hurt meanwhile fleecing them in their naivete.

simply put, dere will only close when all sikh bibian get full support, knowledge and access to Gurbani and Gurdwarey roles

So if someone has a drug problem, it's because they are male chauvinists, yes of course that makes sense.

Amazing the conflation you make that if there are problems with men it is the women's fault. 

Your solipsism astounds me. There are things happening with men that are not always related to women.

Bibian go for deras because it part of the female psyche. It is the same evolved behaviour that teenage girls who follow pop bands. Even if their husbands did not have problems, they are still going to follow these babeh types.

If their husbands have drink problems maybe there are issues involved which these babeh cannot solve many because the man's issues are not being addressed.

Why do men turn to drink? It is because they have pressures and stresses in life, their outlet is through drink. It is not because they are sexist or chauvinist pigs

I have seen this with my own eyes with several male relatives in Punjab and I have seen this with Punjabi men here in the UK, they are killing themselves with drink. It is a slow suicide.

Believe it or not, men are human too, just like your sons, fathers and brothers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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