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Hum rulte firte koi baat na puchta - Bhai Manpreet Singh ji Kanpuri

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All of Gurbani has come from the divine.  Once a Sikh is able to understand this fact.  We can tell the Gurus did not feel highs and lows.  The Gurus are above gain and lose, therefore they don't go through emotional rollercoasters as humans do.  All Bani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji was written when all the Gurus became Vaheguru themselves.

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22 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I've always maintained that Guru Ram Das Ji's life and specific contributions to Gurbani should be studied by those who themselves are experiencing a difficult and seemingly painful existence. There's a tragic undercurrent to Guru Ji's history, that's relatable and speaks to the broken and the disenfranchised, that is greatly underestimated among the great accounts of warrior-like valour or entirely zen-like spiritual demeanour of other notable personalities in Sikh history. Most contemporary Sikhs of a certain frame of mind would identify and greatly benefit from this exercise. As I grow older, I realise that 4th Paatshsh are, to me, the most "human" of Guru Sahibs, and that's taking nothing away from their divinity.

Vaheguru

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3 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

A lowly human being at the bottom rung of cognisance and spirituality cannot hope to identify with the existence and thought processes of a perfect God. You keep telling Sikhs who've lost all hope and faith, after being destroyed by the cruelties of life, that the individuals we're meant to view as role models were automatons and beyond human emotions, then don't suddenly be surprised when future Sikh generations complain about being unable to identify with infinite perfection, and turn to other paths for satisfaction and peace, when all they desire is to feel a sense of hope in the idea that the great souls they're meant to worship may have an iota of an inkling of what their lost and lonely Sikh might be experiencing. If there's no connection, there's no love; only fear and incomprehensible and short-term awe that eventually fades. It's like asking an ant to comprehend quantum physics; there's simply no point to it.

We don't detract from the human and spiritual perfection of our Guru Sahibs by highlighting aspects of their humanity. Whilst they clearly didn't succumb to grief and helplessness, there were obstacles and adversities in their lives that they overcame through faith and devotion.

Anticipate these growing concerns and issues that generations of Sikhs in the future will undoubtedly be facing as life's complexities and tribulations become even more taxing and burdensome on the individual. Don't bend the Truth but do tailor and clarify the message so that it's understood by those who need to hear it the most.

I reiterate: we are sleepwalking into irrelevance as far as parchaar to our own people is concerned when we are hellbent on emphasising there is no common ground between the "uttai-churai" of our life experiences and the documented and irrefutable ordeals face by our Guru Sahibs. You want a genuine, deep, lifelong love and devotion for Sikhi and its Gurus? You create a meaningful connection. You don't just order people to worship or be damned. That's unless you want blind, unthinking sheep, in which case we can continue following the script.

no one is listening , as always . save urself energy 

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Gurbani is there to lift anyone's spirit and anyone can identify with Gurbani. Who in their right mind would change what the Gurus were to appease any human being.  This dude sounds like Ram Rai who will change Gurbani to appease another.  Ram Rai was excommunicated from the Nirmal Panth by the Guru himself.  This is the example set by the Guru. Bhagat Dhanna Jatt ji was full of hurt and desperation when Akal Purakh would not come to eat first.  Out of this child like innocence, Akal Purakh showed himself to Bhagat Dhanna Jatt ji.  Look at the desperation of Bhagat Naamdev ji who wanted to do simran of Akal Purakh in a Mandir.  But he was kicked out and Vaheguru turned the mandir to face bhagat Naamdev ji where he sat outside of the mandir.  This is the power of the Guru.  This is his glory and then it is not glory to the Gurmukhs who sit next to the Guru because they understand Vaheguru protects his Sikhs.  

From this guys post I can tell this guy does not read Gurbani.  Bring any person who has gone to the pit of hell and teach him Gurbani and he will become a Gurmukh by Guru kirpa.  People don't want to follow the Gurus path.  They rather get what they want fastest and easiest way possible.  This is the reality of the world.  Anything that requires time and any effort is looked down upon.  Hence the yoga fad has lasted so long.  Its easier to live your life as you want and not change but do some yoga to help with breathing and stretching to make the body feel better.  Drink and party all you want but take a yoga class and it will heal you for 30 minutes.  

Gurbani says to put hope and faith in the Guru and you will succeed.  Or put hope in lies about the Guru and face more misery and depressed times ahead.  Mothers had their children limbs strung around their necks and they did not shed a tear.  This is the strength of Gurbani. 

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Gurbani is on the internet.  Just as these youth access Instagram, facebook, Snapchat, Twitter and other social media sites and apps they can access Gurbani online and offline.  But they are occupied with taking photos of themselves and all the trips they go on.  I can make up stories of other youth asking why don't certain old people pick up another hobby and stop trying to change Sikhi to what they are only capable of accomplishing.  

If you have a problem with certain kathavachaks.  Then approach them and see what kind of response you get.  I have no issue doing it.  

The youth asked a question to a person who he picked up was not listening to the Guru.  Any Gurmukh would have told him, the Guru not having any emotion at the lose of his sons was the foundation that gave you the freedom to ask such questions.  If it was not for this father, today your name would have been kafir  or Mohammed and you would be bowing to a black rock, while married to your cousin.

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17 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I'm being asked questions by younger -- and some not so young -- Sikhs who aren't necessarily religious or even theists (yet they possess a fairly decent comprehension of the Punjabi language and therefore can contextualise what's being said on the Gurdwara stage on the few occasions they attend) but due to cultural and familial connections have a desire to connect with their heritage and generally get to the heart of a few issues without undergoing the parchaar sales pitch.

I'll be honest, some of the questions they pose are the kind of things white people would ask about our religion around 20-25 years ago. They aren't being mean or devious but they are completely lacking any form of sugar-coating one would expect of our so-called co-religionists. At times it's a culture shock for me. Anyone else would get triggered and take it as an affront, but one can usually judge the intentions of someone who isn't taking the peshaab but merely acting out of ignorance and curiosity.

One example of what I was posed by someone last December during the shaheedi / Sahibzaade remembrance events: a young man in his 20's said to me he felt an immense guilt trip being inflicted on Sikhs when almost all parchaar centred on this particular period is simultaneously designed to remind us that Guru Govind Singh Ji felt no pain or sadness at the death of his sons -- because divine incarnations are above such base emotions -- yet the sangat is expected to be practically in mourning at the loss of the Sahibzaade; recent years have seen opening weeping and similar hitherto unseen behaviour in the darbaar itself.

Anyway, his question was, "If their father didn't feel any form of sadness or regret at the loss of his offspring, then why am I being induced into physical acts of mourning designed to make me a loyal follower? What does it matter to me if the father showed no emotion?" Can you believe such a question could originate from one of our supposed own? 

What do the contemporary jathe leadership and assorted babeh of the quom have in response to such questions? Is it clear how we're shooting ourselves in the foot? 

 

truth is Guru ji did feel the loss but as he illustrated when walking through the battlefield  and Bhai Daya Singh (I think) offered to cover Vadde Sahibzahidey 's faces with cloth Guru ji replied that he would want to cover all his children's faces , in other words every Singh was a beloved child and all their deaths were intensely felt , however he did not love his blood related sons more . Guruji loved all his children and tried to emphasise this intensity to all and sundry . Khalsa Mahima is an ode to this love .
Mata ji could see what was going to happen and asked leave of Guru ji , they all felt but they were not overwhelmed by their emotions they kept steady like the well designed keel will slice through turbulent waters . That is the sign of a leader - lead by example .

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2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

truth is Guru ji did feel the loss but as he illustrated when walking through the battlefield  and Bhai Daya Singh (I think) offered to cover Vadde Sahibzahidey 's faces with cloth Guru ji replied that he would want to cover all his children's faces , in other words every Singh was a beloved child and all their deaths were intensely felt , however he did not love his blood related sons more . Guruji loved all his children and tried to emphasise this intensity to all and sundry . Khalsa Mahima is an ode to this love .
Mata ji could see what was going to happen and asked leave of Guru ji , they all felt but they were not overwhelmed by their emotions they kept steady like the well designed keel will slice through turbulent waters . That is the sign of a leader - lead by example .

That was exactly my response. 

I just think younger generations and even some of the people of my age bracket who haven't been exposed to that uniquely stoic yet even-handed brand of Sikh spirituality find it difficult to wrap their heads around certain apparently paradoxical concepts and remarkable individuals in our history, especially for those of our people who've been raised on a steady diet of Hollywood-ised emotional indulgence. There's a blurring between fiction and reality AND a further step beyond of the blurring between the former and our particular ways and history, which seems to make some of our own almost incredulous at what they're being asked to digest.

But, as I said, the "superhero mythologising" by our parchaaraks and other people with a voice in the panth, is not helping matters at all. There's ways of inspiring awe and reverence by emphasising the divinity of Sikh personalities without utterly killing any human angle of personal interest. Without wishing to offend anyone, third-worlders might be impressed and cowed by such descriptions of untouchable brilliance, but for slightly more sophisticated and deep thinking westerners who want to FEEL a genuine connection, these types of potential believers are being done a huge disservice, and actually it's causing people to switch off and turn away, especially when they're initially told certain things to get them through the "turnstiles" that Sikhi is unlike the other faiths. 

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1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

That was exactly my response. 

I just think younger generations and even some of the people of my age bracket who haven't been exposed to that uniquely stoic yet even-handed brand of Sikh spirituality find it difficult to wrap their heads around certain apparently paradoxical concepts and remarkable individuals in our history, especially for those of our people who've been raised on a steady diet of Hollywood-ised emotional indulgence. There's a blurring between fiction and reality AND a further step beyond of the blurring between the former and our particular ways and history, which seems to make some of our own almost incredulous at what they're being asked to digest.

But, as I said, the "superhero mythologising" by our parchaaraks and other people with a voice in the panth, is not helping matters at all. There's ways of inspiring awe and reverence by emphasising the divinity of Sikh personalities without utterly killing any human angle of personal interest. Without wishing to offend anyone, third-worlders might be impressed and cowed by such descriptions of untouchable brilliance, but for slightly more sophisticated and deep thinking westerners who want to FEEL a genuine connection, these types of potential believers are being done a huge disservice, and actually it's causing people to switch off and turn away, especially when they're initially told certain things to get them through the "turnstiles" that Sikhi is unlike the other faiths. 

They were superhuman  no doubt, but their life was about enveloping each us in that Paramatma's unyielding love and understanding , to put balm of naam on our hurting souls , help us to see the world with their eyes , giving the courage of meeting the state of things as they  stand and confronting the wrongs and bringing blance and freedom to those trapped ...

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