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mahandulai
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1 hour ago, Jaggaa said:

I just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents on what you've just said here. Lets assume he didn't. I think such a person is in a better position because he will be coming in with a much more open empty mind rarther than the brain wash that some Sikh families have been raised through. I welcome a continous challenge to learn and rationalise and undoubtely such duty is what led Guru Nanak Dev Jee to challenge the society and belief system he was surrounded by.

Those posessing long term experience/"refined"/experienced interpretation of a passed on mindset will always be threatended and uneasy and not flexible in accepting that perhaps their way of thinking and understanding anything not just Sikhi may be outdated or interpreted incorrectly by those they learnt off.

are you serious ?

we have told Mahan to get busy reading Guru ji , Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth directly if he has doubts , and his constant answers is no , I can't do that, tell me instead. If he was so concerned about learning he would make effort

He has Openly discounted ALL Sikh granths on multiple threads as untrustworthy because of their age ...which in itself is ridiculous. When he questioned Veracity of SIkhi  and Guru ji's Bachan I told him about all the verified sources , verified by history and handwriting analysis , materials analysis etc  apart from secondary witness people commenting about same events in their writings , sikh or otherwise .

He Has the Closed mind .. He has the inability to think maybe he was mistaken due to lack of knowledge ... most people would say Hold on I'll take a look and reform my opinion if necessary but he is sticking to his dogma of vigian scepticism

 

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1 hour ago, Jaggaa said:

I just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents on what you've just said here. Lets assume he didn't. I think such a person is in a better position because he will be coming in with a much more open empty mind rarther than the brain wash that some Sikh families have been raised through. I welcome a continous challenge to learn and rationalise and undoubtely such duty is what led Guru Nanak Dev Jee to challenge the society and belief system he was surrounded by.

Those posessing long term experience/"refined"/experienced interpretation of a passed on mindset will always be threatended and uneasy and not flexible in accepting that perhaps their way of thinking and understanding anything not just Sikhi may be outdated or interpreted incorrectly by those they learnt off.

hallelujah

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3 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

are you serious ?

we have told Mahan to get busy reading Guru ji , Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth directly if he has doubts , and his constant answers is no , I can't do that, tell me instead. If he was so concerned about learning he would make effort

He has Openly discounted ALL Sikh granths on multiple threads as untrustworthy because of their age ...which in itself is ridiculous. When he questioned Veracity of SIkhi  and Guru ji's Bachan I told him about all the verified sources , verified by history and handwriting analysis , materials analysis etc  apart from secondary witness people commenting about same events in their writings , sikh or otherwise .

He Has the Closed mind .. He has the inability to think maybe he was mistaken due to lack of knowledge ... most people would say Hold on I'll take a look and reform my opinion if necessary but he is sticking to his dogma of vigian scepticism

 

tbh you have admitted you are old.

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2 minutes ago, mahandulai said:

we have told Mahan to get busy reading Guru ji , Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth directly if he has doubts , and his constant answers is no , I can't do that, tell me instead. If he was so concerned about learning he would make effort

With all respect to our Dharmic Granths and Guru Ji, one does not alleviate his doubts by just reading. This is why we have the concept of sangat. Just saying something is verified or that something is divine and the absolute truth is illogical. All other faiths claim that their religous texts are the "truth".

I've had the fortune to spend time amongst plenty of healthy minded Gurmukhs and one thing I can say is, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere had they just told me to read Guru jee's bani. I've also seen the quality of life that those which just read, misquote and misrepresent the essence of Gurbani. Not only is that such a misdirection to the approach of Gurmat it is plain outright dangerous and with information so readily avaialble no longer applicable.

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13 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

With all respect to our Dharmic Granths and Guru Ji, one does not alleviate his doubts by just reading. This is why we have the concept of sangat. Just saying something is verified or that something is divine and the absolute truth is illogical. All other faiths claim that their religous texts are the "truth".

I've had the fortune to spend time amongst plenty of healthy minded Gurmukhs and one thing I can say is, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere had they just told me to read Guru jee's bani. I've also seen the quality of life that those which just read, misquote and misrepresent the essence of Gurbani. Not only is that such a misdirection to the approach of Gurmat it is plain outright dangerous and with information so readily avaialble no longer applicable.

well good for you , I wasn't as lucky as most as sangat  was some distance across London from me growing up, I grew up in a rough racist neighbourhood and I learnt Guru ji's love by reading his words and seeing just how true it was IN REAL LIFE . I grew up reading Guru Teg Bahadur ji's bani , feeling the protection of Guru Gobind SIngh ji's Bani  the gentle love of the chiding of Anand Sahib , the rush of energy of Jaap Sahib , seeing the images of Tav prasad Saviyae in my mind's eye  and Japji Sahib unfurled my child's mind into the kind of mind that could face down daily taunts and beats  and still feel love for my fellow humans.

Having faith that was built on the foundations of knowledge of our itihaas allowed me to see Beyond the now and to keep steady despite my tender age .

I know that Gurbani is transformative in Itself  and any one who doesn't know that is losing out

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@jkvlondon I wish you best of luck in the future and that you no longer face such an undeserving experience to life and that others including myself can take advantage of the faith bestowed to us by Gurbani.

Coming back to the OP's question. It seems like this isn't the place or time to be asking such questions @mahandulai

However to offer some form of hope, the answer is simple. Just like the weather, truth changes, history is retold and with it so do the principles and understanding of humanistic knowledge to be able to behave beyond our animalistic nature. Who's to say that in another thousand years there won't be a more relevant Granth for us to aspire to but for now our eternal Guru has given us a ray of hope, especially during a time where there was nothing but darkness.

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