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mahandulai

SikhSangat.com not fit for purpose?

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1 hour ago, Jaggaa said:

I just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents on what you've just said here. Lets assume he didn't. I think such a person is in a better position because he will be coming in with a much more open empty mind rarther than the brain wash that some Sikh families have been raised through. I welcome a continous challenge to learn and rationalise and undoubtely such duty is what led Guru Nanak Dev Jee to challenge the society and belief system he was surrounded by.

Those posessing long term experience/"refined"/experienced interpretation of a passed on mindset will always be threatended and uneasy and not flexible in accepting that perhaps their way of thinking and understanding anything not just Sikhi may be outdated or interpreted incorrectly by those they learnt off.

are you serious ?

we have told Mahan to get busy reading Guru ji , Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth directly if he has doubts , and his constant answers is no , I can't do that, tell me instead. If he was so concerned about learning he would make effort

He has Openly discounted ALL Sikh granths on multiple threads as untrustworthy because of their age ...which in itself is ridiculous. When he questioned Veracity of SIkhi  and Guru ji's Bachan I told him about all the verified sources , verified by history and handwriting analysis , materials analysis etc  apart from secondary witness people commenting about same events in their writings , sikh or otherwise .

He Has the Closed mind .. He has the inability to think maybe he was mistaken due to lack of knowledge ... most people would say Hold on I'll take a look and reform my opinion if necessary but he is sticking to his dogma of vigian scepticism

 

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1 hour ago, Jaggaa said:

Perhaps playing the devils advocate but feels like some of you have taken a personal approach to addressing this person instead of providing him with an answer to his question.

waheguru

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1 hour ago, Jaggaa said:

I just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents on what you've just said here. Lets assume he didn't. I think such a person is in a better position because he will be coming in with a much more open empty mind rarther than the brain wash that some Sikh families have been raised through. I welcome a continous challenge to learn and rationalise and undoubtely such duty is what led Guru Nanak Dev Jee to challenge the society and belief system he was surrounded by.

Those posessing long term experience/"refined"/experienced interpretation of a passed on mindset will always be threatended and uneasy and not flexible in accepting that perhaps their way of thinking and understanding anything not just Sikhi may be outdated or interpreted incorrectly by those they learnt off.

hallelujah

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3 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

are you serious ?

we have told Mahan to get busy reading Guru ji , Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth directly if he has doubts , and his constant answers is no , I can't do that, tell me instead. If he was so concerned about learning he would make effort

He has Openly discounted ALL Sikh granths on multiple threads as untrustworthy because of their age ...which in itself is ridiculous. When he questioned Veracity of SIkhi  and Guru ji's Bachan I told him about all the verified sources , verified by history and handwriting analysis , materials analysis etc  apart from secondary witness people commenting about same events in their writings , sikh or otherwise .

He Has the Closed mind .. He has the inability to think maybe he was mistaken due to lack of knowledge ... most people would say Hold on I'll take a look and reform my opinion if necessary but he is sticking to his dogma of vigian scepticism

 

tbh you have admitted you are old.

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1 minute ago, mahandulai said:

tbh you have admitted you are old.

so what I should lie to fit into your pathetic narrative ? I counsel and deal with young and old alike  you are not anything new to me ...nothing new or frsh about your behaviour or mentality .

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2 minutes ago, mahandulai said:

we have told Mahan to get busy reading Guru ji , Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth directly if he has doubts , and his constant answers is no , I can't do that, tell me instead. If he was so concerned about learning he would make effort

With all respect to our Dharmic Granths and Guru Ji, one does not alleviate his doubts by just reading. This is why we have the concept of sangat. Just saying something is verified or that something is divine and the absolute truth is illogical. All other faiths claim that their religous texts are the "truth".

I've had the fortune to spend time amongst plenty of healthy minded Gurmukhs and one thing I can say is, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere had they just told me to read Guru jee's bani. I've also seen the quality of life that those which just read, misquote and misrepresent the essence of Gurbani. Not only is that such a misdirection to the approach of Gurmat it is plain outright dangerous and with information so readily avaialble no longer applicable.

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13 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

With all respect to our Dharmic Granths and Guru Ji, one does not alleviate his doubts by just reading. This is why we have the concept of sangat. Just saying something is verified or that something is divine and the absolute truth is illogical. All other faiths claim that their religous texts are the "truth".

I've had the fortune to spend time amongst plenty of healthy minded Gurmukhs and one thing I can say is, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere had they just told me to read Guru jee's bani. I've also seen the quality of life that those which just read, misquote and misrepresent the essence of Gurbani. Not only is that such a misdirection to the approach of Gurmat it is plain outright dangerous and with information so readily avaialble no longer applicable.

well good for you , I wasn't as lucky as most as sangat  was some distance across London from me growing up, I grew up in a rough racist neighbourhood and I learnt Guru ji's love by reading his words and seeing just how true it was IN REAL LIFE . I grew up reading Guru Teg Bahadur ji's bani , feeling the protection of Guru Gobind SIngh ji's Bani  the gentle love of the chiding of Anand Sahib , the rush of energy of Jaap Sahib , seeing the images of Tav prasad Saviyae in my mind's eye  and Japji Sahib unfurled my child's mind into the kind of mind that could face down daily taunts and beats  and still feel love for my fellow humans.

Having faith that was built on the foundations of knowledge of our itihaas allowed me to see Beyond the now and to keep steady despite my tender age .

I know that Gurbani is transformative in Itself  and any one who doesn't know that is losing out

Edited by jkvlondon

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@jkvlondon I wish you best of luck in the future and that you no longer face such an undeserving experience to life and that others including myself can take advantage of the faith bestowed to us by Gurbani.

Coming back to the OP's question. It seems like this isn't the place or time to be asking such questions @mahandulai

However to offer some form of hope, the answer is simple. Just like the weather, truth changes, history is retold and with it so do the principles and understanding of humanistic knowledge to be able to behave beyond our animalistic nature. Who's to say that in another thousand years there won't be a more relevant Granth for us to aspire to but for now our eternal Guru has given us a ray of hope, especially during a time where there was nothing but darkness.

Edited by Jaggaa

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2 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

@jkvlondon I wish you best of luck in the future and that you no longer face such an undeserving experience to life and that others including myself can take advantage of the faith bestowed to us by Gurbani.

Coming back to the OP's question. It seems like this isn't the place or time to be asking such questions @mahandulai

However to offer some form of hope, the answer is simple. Just like the weather, truth changes, history is retold and with it so do the principles and understanding of humanistic knowledge to be able to behave beyond our animalistic nature. Who's to say that in another thousand years there won't be a more relevant Granth for us to aspire to but for now our eternal Guru has given us a ray of hope, especially during a time where there was nothing but darkness.

truth is atal - that is what makes it the truth/reality/forever  else it would be jhoot/ perishable  please do not frame gurbani in the second category

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@jkvlondon

Perhaps you have misunderstood my reference to what I'm regarding as truth as to me when referring to truth in Gurbani, it's not just about something as simple as "what goes up, must come down" so sayeth the Guru and it won't change. To elaborate, concepts such as duty, truthful living, virtues and acceptance to me are all part of the truth that I'm farming framing Gurbani in and what I'm regarding as "truth".

Guru Nanak Dev jee challenged those of his time and presented his truth. However there were plenty of other pre-existing granths but at no point did he or is successors name them as "jhoot/perishable".

Do you not think that in a thousand years time we may know something we don't currently know ? If Guru Nanak Dev jee was to come again (hypothetically) would he challenge the society and its issues with what he challenged the brahmins with in the 1500s? Would he still be talking about the narrative of Ram and Ravan?

" please do not frame gurbani in the second category " Please don't bring your emotion in to this as this is supposed to a forum of discussion and I assure you that I do not have any ill intentions towards Gurbani. Everyone holds the right to think for themselves. There's no perfect answer, it's a discussion for us to take something away and not always as black and white as it may seem.

Edited by Jaggaa
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On 10/25/2018 at 1:53 PM, mahandulai said:

not everyone has the time.

but you do..dont you?

the amount of time you spend on here asking question after question after question after question after question could be easily be spent researching just one of them and finding the answer that satisfies your mind and stops the curiosity/wondering..

you seem to expect everyone you ask here to know all the answers..but theyre still all learning too and one of the ways they do that is through independent research - do you consider yourself a special case that youre above this and expect the right answer instantly? thats not how life works bro..make the effort and youll get your rewards..simple as that.

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