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Why are we not Hindus?


Guest Bhujang
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3 hours ago, Guest guest said:

i don't need advice on how to 'debate' .  i was contributing to a discussion, not engaging in a debate.  debates are for "chalak" (sly) people who have preset ideological motives and are only interested in being publicly seen as winning arguments, hence resort to such petty tactics as 'ad hominem'  attacks etc.  this seems your interest, not mine.  the intention you had in asking me about babri masjid was clear.  your lame 'attack' failed.  maybe you should learn to engage in straight forward discussions and concentrate on the points on hand. 

Though not in habit of chain-type replying but you are not making any sense. You use the method of deflection and since you are not even registered as a member and maybe you are posting with various different ids to post your ideology (fearing that you may not have enough support). For that reason, i feel it will be my waste of time debating/discussing with you my dear brother. Have a great life.

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On 10/29/2018 at 4:50 AM, BhForce said:

Yeah, it's just some random fellow named "Nanak" that said we're neither Hindus or Muslims, that Hindus are blind, and that they are wrong from the start.

Thank God that "Guru Guest Bhujang ji" came along to set us straight.

Dhanvaad.

 

ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥

Naa Ham Hindhoo N Musalamaan ||

I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.

ਭੈਰਉ (ਮਃ ੫) (੩) ੪:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੩੬ ਪੰ. ੧੧ 
Raag Bhaira-o Guru Arjan Dev

https://www.searchgurbani.com/guru-granth-sahib/shabad/4205/line/10

 

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ ਤੁਰਕੂ ਕਾਣਾ ॥

Hindhoo Annhaa Thurakoo Kaanaa ||

The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye.

ਗੋਂਡ (ਭ. ਨਾਮਦੇਵ) (੭) ੪:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੮੭੫ ਪੰ. ੨ 
Raag Bilaaval Gond Bhagat Namdev

https://www.searchgurbani.com/guru-granth-sahib/ang/875

 

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੂਲੇ ਭੂਲੇ ਅਖੁਟੀ ਜਾਂਹੀ ॥

Hindhoo Moolae Bhoolae Akhuttee Jaanhee ||

The Hindus have erred from the start; they are going the wrong way.

ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ ਵਾਰ (ਮਃ ੪) (੨੦) ਸ. (੧) ੨:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੫੫੬ ਪੰ. ੯ 
Raag Bihaagrhaa Guru Nanak Dev

 

 

 

Why did you miss out this? 

 

ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਰਾਨ ॥੪॥

 

Aleh Raam Kae Pindd Paraan ||4||

 

My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4||

 

ਭੈਰਉ (ਮਃ ੫) (੩) ੪:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੩੬ ਪੰ. ੧੨ 

Raag Bhaira-o Guru Arjan Dev

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On 11/7/2018 at 5:16 AM, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

OHH ! that evil 'Sikhism' vs the pious good'ol 'Sikhi' debate again. Changing names doesn't change anything man.

Agreed Singh Sabha and the passages of time have def changed sikhi , and we truly today are following a flavor of Sikhism perhaps quite different from 200 yrs ago. For one , raag vidya is NON EXISTENT ! I am surprised no one is speaking about that in this debate. Something so important that the entire SGGS is divided into passaged based on Raags and we have not an iota of what it is and how its to be sung ! As the classic joke among sikh circles goes, Harmonium is not old enough .So first step in reviving ancient gurmat sangeet. For that we might need help of non-sikh sources who actually know what Dhanasri is , What sorath is , What Ramkalee is and how they sing it and then try to transpose that music pattern onto gurbani . If it fits well on the shabads, you know you got it right ! 

Secondly , As many hindus themselves have said "Gurbani is an approximation of hindu vedantic thought" and to an extent they're correct.

Now if you go by this viewpoint , you will have to justify why you need a separate identity , since you're following the same tenets of Karma, Dharma, Rebirth , Three gunas (sato , rajo , tamo) and the 5-element body and the other nuances of Indic thought . So why don't we put you as a "sect" of Sanatan Dharam . You have any reply on that ?!!

There must be certain nuances of Sikhi matt and vedantic matt, ELSE I don't see a point as to why Sikhism exists as a separate religion. Now what those nuances are , you can ONLY tell after going through BOTH vedantic (10 mukhya upanishads) and gurbani (SGGS) thought process and compare their differences. 

EDIT ---

There are four mahavaaks from each of the 4 vedas that is the "juice" of the learning from that particular veda or the Upanishad actually linked to that veda .

RigVed : "Prajnanam Brahm" (Intellect is Brahm)

YajurVed : "Aham Brahmasmi" (I am Brahm)

SamVed : "Tat tvam asi" (you are that) (same stuff as "mann tu jot saroop hai")

AtharvaVed : "Ayam Atma Brahm" (the atma is brahm)

So apparently this is juice of all vedic thoughts churned over 3000 yr period ! 

One ashtapadi of Sukhmani sahib  has more gyaan than this ! 

Raag vidya and gurbani sangeet traditions are being promoted look into the work of bhai baldeep singh ji and the Anad foundation 

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On 11/9/2018 at 3:54 PM, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Why did you miss out this? 

 

ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਰਾਨ ॥੪॥

 

Aleh Raam Kae Pindd Paraan ||4||

 

My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4||

 

ਭੈਰਉ (ਮਃ ੫) (੩) ੪:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੩੬ ਪੰ. ੧੨ 

Raag Bhaira-o Guru Arjan Dev

What point are  you trying to make? 

Do you think that Gurbani contradicts itself?

On the one hand it says that we are not Hindus (or Muslims).

Given the fact that that line says "my body and breath belong to Allah and Raam", do you think that that means that, here, Allah and Ram are two distinct gods, and they hold a 50-50 percent stake in your body and breath?

All that the line means is that Guru ji is saying that there's only one God, call him Allah or Ram, whatever. And he owns my body and breath.

In no sense does the line negate the earlier line that we are neither Muslims or Hindus.

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Guest Ranveer

Hinduism is the only ancient civilization still in existence till this day..dharma regardless of Hindu,Buddhist or sikh is growing,the west have adopted the methods & teachings of eating healthy and doing daily yoga. At the end of the day whatever anyone says it's about self experience and if that works for the betterment of that individual than who I'm I to say its wrong, Vedas (Upanishads) has done so much great in the world and the knowledge is superior that it's having a strong effect on people even now..schools are teaching children Sanskrit which is crucial coz most translation in English were corrupted by the west people like max muller..If anyone's ancestors were from sindh than you're a Hindu by geography.

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On 11/16/2018 at 7:57 AM, BhForce said:

What point are  you trying to make? 

Do you think that Gurbani contradicts itself?

On the one hand it says that we are not Hindus (or Muslims).

Given the fact that that line says "my body and breath belong to Allah and Raam", do you think that that means that, here, Allah and Ram are two distinct gods, and they hold a 50-50 percent stake in your body and breath?

All that the line means is that Guru ji is saying that there's only one God, call him Allah or Ram, whatever. And he owns my body and breath.

In no sense does the line negate the earlier line that we are neither Muslims or Hindus.

I don't think gurbani contradicts itself at all.. I think you contradicted yourself and was selective in your choice of quotes 

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I was having a think about the relationship between  Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism Buddhism the other day and I think there is nothing wrong if someone of Hindu faith considers themselves Dhamic and not be labelled as Hindu as Hinduism is an open book faith. there is no set worship, rule book, it is only the RSS that has come up with all this bullcrap which has somewhat turned Hinduism into a conventional religion when its clearly not.   

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On 11/17/2018 at 6:40 PM, Guest Ranveer said:

Hinduism is the only ancient civilization still in existence till this day..dharma regardless of Hindu,Buddhist or sikh is growing,the west have adopted the methods & teachings of eating healthy and doing daily yoga. At the end of the day whatever anyone says it's about self experience and if that works for the betterment of that individual than who I'm I to say its wrong, Vedas (Upanishads) has done so much great in the world and the knowledge is superior that it's having a strong effect on people even now..schools are teaching children Sanskrit which is crucial coz most translation in English were corrupted by the west people like max muller..If anyone's ancestors were from sindh than you're a Hindu by geography.

not true aboriginal dharam still exists and is followed to this day much older than vedas

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On 11/17/2018 at 7:55 PM, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I don't think gurbani contradicts itself at all.. I think you contradicted yourself and was selective in your choice of quotes 

Again, you fail to post what you think the line means.

Do you seriously agree with the translation posted? That's meaningless.

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On 11/16/2018 at 8:57 AM, BhForce said:

What point are  you trying to make? 

Do you think that Gurbani contradicts itself?

On the one hand it says that we are not Hindus (or Muslims).

Given the fact that that line says "my body and breath belong to Allah and Raam", do you think that that means that, here, Allah and Ram are two distinct gods, and they hold a 50-50 percent stake in your body and breath?

All that the line means is that Guru ji is saying that there's only one God, call him Allah or Ram, whatever. And he owns my body and breath.

In no sense does the line negate the earlier line that we are neither Muslims or Hindus.

Allah is literal 'the most high/exalted  ' and Ram is not Ram Chander son of king Dasarath but Rameiya 'the One who is initmately intermingled/connected to the Creation' so superficial reading of Gurbani is not going to cut it.

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