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Do you agree and support Ranjit Dhahderanwala Prachar?


S1ngh
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Do you agree and support Ranjit Dhahderanwala Prachar?  

59 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you agree and support Ranjit Dhahderanwala Prachar?

    • Yes
      20
    • No
      30
    • I don't know him
      9


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5 hours ago, HardeepCov said:

All I hear repeatedly is a message to use common sense, think logically, develop your minds, do paath/ardas yourself and try to understand, make your own connection with waheguru who is inside you.

Dhadri says that this is an age of logic and science. That youngsters need to be convinced of Gurmat through scientific and logical means. Which will never succeed. Or if it does will turn Sikhs into athiests, like Christians in the west have largely become after all their scientific and technological achievements.

You want this for the Sikhs?

 

5 hours ago, HardeepCov said:

All I hear repeatedly is a message to use common sense, think logically, develop your minds, do paath/ardas yourself and try to understand, make your own connection with waheguru who is inside you.

Everybody of a religious hue says this. Even Nirankaris, Radha Swamis, Sacha Sauda etc.

 

Sikhs have been saying it for centuries.

It's nothing new.

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24 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

So wait, you don't want Sikhs to use logic and instead use what? blind faith?

Bhai Ranjit Singh is a parcharak, you might not agree with him 100% and that is what you should debate. Pick out something of his you don't agree with and discuss that. Don't speak out silly provocative statements against an individual and grow up or you'll end up pushing MORE people away.

this video is some months after the attack

 

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32 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

So wait, you don't want Sikhs to use logic and instead use what? blind faith?

I don't want Sikhs to rely on logic/scientific reasoning because I believe no-one can prove that Sri Akaal Purkh actually exists.

 

If you can then prove it to me, and i will stop having blind faith that Sri Akaal Purkh exists and use logic instead.

 

33 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

Pick out something of his you don't agree with and discuss that

I did in my post. I'll repeat it again for you:

"Dhadri says that this is an age of logic and science. That youngsters need to be convinced of Gurmat through scientific and logical means. Which will never succeed. Or if it does will turn Sikhs into athiests, like Christians in the west have largely become after all their scientific and technological achievements. "

I don't agree with that and have said so.

 

If you disagree with me, tell me why.

 

33 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

Don't speak out silly provocative statements against an individual and grow up or you'll end up pushing MORE people away.

Well my friend, that's unfortunately what you did yourself by not reading my post properly.

 

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2 hours ago, Jaggaa said:

So wait, you don't want Sikhs to use logic and instead use what? blind faith?

Bhai Ranjit Singh is a parcharak, you might not agree with him 100% and that is what you should debate. Pick out something of his you don't agree with and discuss that. Don't speak out silly provocative statements against an individual and grow up or you'll end up pushing MORE people away.

Using logic/science as your fundamental tool to understand Sikhi, Gurbani, Gur-ithihaas, or Gurmat is wrong and misguided. 

Why is it wrong?

  • When someone uses a philosophy, ideology, or doctrine that does not originate from the Guru to try to develop an understanding of Sikhi/Gurbani, the resulting "understanding" of Sikhi they develop will be distorted, warped, and ultimately incorrect
  • If you use any Mat (a philosophy, like Hindu-Mat, Budh-Mat, Marxism, Existentialism, Western Logic, etc.) to understand Sikhi/Gurbani, you use their viewpoint/principles to define and understand Sikhi/Gurbani
  • To truly understand Sikhi/Gurbani, you must use the world view that the Guru has given us. You must take on the nazariya (perspective, viewpoint, frame of reference) of the Guru and use that to learn, understand, and analyze Sikhi

What problems occur when you use a Non-Sikh philosophy?

  • Some Hindus including the RSS use their own philosophical principles to define Sikhi
    • They view the Khalsa as being a sena (fighting force) for the protection of Hindus, that Sikhs are merely a military arm to the wider Hindu community
    • They develop this understanding by using THEIR philosophy/ideology as Hindus,  to define US as Sikhs
  • Using Western Philosophy/Logic/Science to define Sikhi is wrong in the same way

Specific problems with using Logic/Western Philosophy to define Sikhi

  • Not just Sikhi but can any Dharam be truly understood using logic/science?

1.The subject of Sikhi/Dharam and Logic/Science are two separate things

  • Sikhi's subject matter is the invisible, transcendental (spiritual, non-physical) world, Waheguru, the divine, metaphysics, that which you  experience internally, beyond the material world.
  • Logic/Science's subject matter is the visible world. The world you can experience through your five senses, that you can count, measure, observe, and analyze.

2. The foundation of Sikhi and Logic/Science are two separate things

  • Sikhi is anchored in Vishwaash, a faith in the Guru that is unwavering. 
  • Logic/Science is anchored in Shanka, in questioning. You begin with suspicion, ask why for everything

3. By using Logic/Science as your benchmark to test what ideas you accept/reject, you've consciously or unconsciously accepted that Logic/Science has as a higher importance than Sikhi

  • If you test Sikhi/Gurbani by using Logic/Science, you automatically are accepting that Sikhi/Gurbani is only correct if it is acceptable by the standards of Logic/Science

4. Logic/Science has a negative/dark side to it

  • Logic/Science brought great acceleration in technologies and development. Along with the many benefits, it has also caused damage to society and our world.
    • Proliferation of nuclear weapons that annihilate nature itself, the creation of extremely potent and fatal recreational drugs, the exploitation of natural resources, climate change that will cause havoc all over the world, etc.
    • If Sikhi is compatible with Logic/Science, than just as Logic/Science has a negative/dark side, Sikhi too must have a negative/dark side. 
      • But Sikhi does not 

For more discourse regarding the interpretation of Sikhi/Gurbani and how Western Philosophy/Logic/Science relates to us as Sikhs I recommend listening to Prof. Prabhsharanbir Singh, Prabhsharandeep Singh, and Sardar Ajmer Singh.

The following videos cover these topics if anyone would like an in-depth analysis and explanation by some of our leading Sikh thinkers. Many of the above points are derived from these videos. 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, S1ngh said:

He is the court jester and trained theaterics without any knowledge of our dharm. He might do good if he joins the Scientologists and leave sikhi alone. 

Friend, again I would be thankful if you explain to me what sense of justice our Guru told us to follow should we be studying.  You place emphasis on this, I want to know your opinion.

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8 hours ago, Jaggaa said:

So wait, you don't want Sikhs to use logic and instead use what? blind faith?

Bhai Ranjit Singh is a parcharak, you might not agree with him 100% and that is what you should debate. Pick out something of his you don't agree with and discuss that. Don't speak out silly provocative statements against an individual and grow up or you'll end up pushing MORE people away.

When Guru Sahib says give me your head.  This doesn't mean to use science and logic as the tool to see if Gurbani is saying the right thing.  Yet this is what Ranjit Singh is doing.  Gurbani says give me your head and don't look to another.  This includes not to look to your and others logic and science to say what is religion, spirituality and how to practice it. When Gursikhs don't understand something in Gurbani.  They read further on in Sri Guru Granth Sahib  to find the answer or re-read what they have already read and/or look for a more learned Sikh to provide the answer from Gurbani.  

Where was science when Vaheguru took the form of half man and lion to destroy an egotistical King?  Where was logic and science when Vaheguru turned a temple to face his Bhagat, Bhagat Naamdev ji? Can science and logic explain how Baba Deep Singh fought without his head?  Sikhi cannot be measures by anything.  Sikhi is about living and becoming what is being taught.  

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