Do you agree and support Ranjit Dhahderanwala Prachar?

[HardeepCov]

14 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Dhadri says that this is an age of logic and science. That youngsters need to be convinced of Gurmat through scientific and logical means. Which will never succeed. Or if it does will turn Sikhs into athiests, like Christians in the west have largely become after all their scientific and technological achievements.

You want this for the Sikhs?

How do you know it will never succeed? Is it better to believe in fairy tales? When children ask why we do something or why such and such is happening do you think its better to give them an answer which makes logical sense or better to say something like lok idha kehde aa? Sianhe idha kehde aa? Babaji idha kehnda aa? That's not good enough especially for older more independent thinking kids. Or do you want our children to be like sheep and just follow the crowd?

Also science has been changing since the development of the Quantum theory. Many quantum physicists say there were atheists but now believe in a higher power and believe the universe is made by design.

Science is a great tool but I don't think it has all the answers. Some of these we need to find within ourselves.

[chatanga1]

Ok. Through science and logic prove to me that “god” is not a fairy tale.

[HardeepCov]

6 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Ok. Through science and logic prove to me that “god” is not a fairy tale.

After you answer my questions and 'slowly' read my post again. 

 

[chatanga1]

3 hours ago, HardeepCov said:

After you answer my questions and 'slowly' read my post again.

Ok.

3 hours ago, HardeepCov said:

How do you know it will never succeed?

 

I base it on the western civilisation that has rejected Christianity and God ever since it start living according to scientific discovery.

 

3 hours ago, HardeepCov said:

 Is it better to believe in fairy tales?

What fairy tales? Like Baba Deep Singh fighting with his head cut off?

Tell me what particular fairy tales you have in mind.

 

3 hours ago, HardeepCov said:

When children ask why we do something or why such and such is happening do you think its better to give them an answer which makes logical sense or better to say something like lok idha kehde aa? Sianhe idha kehde aa? Babaji idha kehnda aa? That's not good enough especially for older more independent thinking kids. Or do you want our children to be like sheep and just follow the crowd?

 

Well this ties in with the question I put to you. Prove to me using science and logic that "god" exists so I can pray to him/her/it.

I'm one of these older, more independent thinking children. I don't want to be a sheep and follow the crowd. So please prove to me using science and logic that "god" exists so I can pray to him/her/it.

Also who would you count as "lok,siane,babaji" ?

I think that Bhai Gurdas Ji, Bhai Mani Singh ji etc don't fall into the above category.

 

3 hours ago, HardeepCov said:

Also science has been changing since the development of the Quantum theory. Many quantum physicists say there were atheists but now believe in a higher power and believe the universe is made by design.

"many" ? So you shouldnt have a problem in proving that "god" exists and I should pray to him/her/it.

 

3 hours ago, HardeepCov said:

Science is a great tool but I don't think it has all the answers. Some of these we need to find within ourselves.

Let's leave aside "I don't think it has all the answers" for the moment. Lets get somewhere on the most basic question. Let science prove that "god" exists.

[Jaggaa]

@Singhballer I read your response a couple of times. I must say it's very well written and I appreciate the way you have approached what you think the relationship between science/logic is to Sikhi. I think we've started to lose the intended reason of the topic. People are against Bhai Ranjit Singh because of him calling out a lot of the story/sakhian spread throughout our history.

He's not exactly a scientist so I can't really comment on how elaborate or parallel his view is to science but when it comes to Gurbani and especially the historical side of our Sikh faith and the impact history has on it I must say he makes one think if perhaps maybe what had happened before Guru Nanak jee's arrival has now come full circle and we're back in the same spot.

I see people using certain stories to gain exclusivity and influence under the banner of Guru Sahib. Just because a particular Sakhi was written/spoken by a well known "Gursikh" in say the 1800's doesn't automatically make it authentic because what's there to say he didn't just do what the same people are doing today? Many of these people such as Bhai Thakur Singh and others are going to go down in history in a very positive light. Does that mean the generation which arrives in say 2400 should have blind faith in their stories?

Bhai Sahib is entitled to his own interpretation to Guru Sahib, at no point is he going against Gurbani. He has his own viewpoint. I'd say he comes from a very priveleged background having initially been among a sadhu/dera background and now exploring more mainstream Sikhi - people who are outright disregarding him because he's challenged something they were taught from a young age. That's what I don't agree with.

There was another person in this topic who quoted me. I mean there's nothing wrong with having strong opinions but I can't engage in a conversation with someone who is simply blurting out some sort of emotional me vs you type of speech. I'm not interested because it seems like a waste of time as not only is it counter-productive it doesn't belong in a discussion from where one can learn from.

[MrDoaba]

5 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

now exploring more mainstream Sikhi

Please elaborate on what this "mainstream Sikhi" is.

Ranjit Dhandri, or anybody for that matter, is under no obligation to follow or believe the opposite of whatever kind of Sikhi you think he preaches but that doesn't mean that you do complete khandan mandan of Traditional/Sampardaic Sikhi. This is not the Sikh way of doing veechaar/prachaar.

His extreme 180 on his viewpoints, deliberately provocative and controversial speeches/videos etc, baseless challenges, and as I said shameless khandan mandan makes many suspicious of his motives which come off as underhanded and deceitful. I'm not trying to insult him but the farce he calls prachaar/katha is just him ignorantly running off at the mouth.

If he was a figure in a different arena, he would have unconditionally lost all credibilty.

I mean Jeez the guy doesn't even know what Merry Christmas means lol instead confidently giving his own whacky, erroneous (but hilarious) arth...that should be an indication of this guy's avastha and level of gyaan. Ehna hankaar?

 

Gurbar Akaal!

[chatanga1]

44 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

People are against Bhai Ranjit Singh because of him calling out a lot of the story/sakhian spread throughout our history.

People are also against ghaghri because he has called Bhai Gurdas Ji a liar. He has also committed the folly of trying to redefine what "god" is which against the Mool Mantar. He has also told people that "god " wants them to sleep-in, in the mornings because that is the way "god" has designed them, to recharge their batteries instead of waking up for nitnem.

I'm sure you have heard ghaghri say that births and deaths are only in the mind. What nonsense is that?

 

This has nothing to do with sakhian. You are trying to portray this as the only reason that people are against ghaghri.

 

45 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

I see people using certain stories to gain exclusivity and influence under the banner of Guru Sahib.

So do I. I see a person in flambouyant outfits which I would expect to see in Brazilian gay/lesbian parades gaining influence only because of SGGS in his diwans and a load of brain-dead cult followers.

 

45 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

Just because a particular Sakhi was written/spoken by a well known "Gursikh" in say the 1800's doesn't automatically make it authentic because what's there to say he didn't just do what the same people are doing today?

 

So the Guru could make mistakes according to you? Bhai Gurdas Ji vaaram contain a lot of sakhis. Guru Sahib also selected Bhai Gurdas Ji to scribe SGGS. Could Guru Sahib have done this without knowing that Bhao Gurdas has written in his vaars?

 

45 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

Bhai Sahib is entitled to his own interpretation to Guru Sahib, at no point is he going against Gurbani.

Saying there is no reincarnation. No 84 lakh joon is going against Guru Sahib.

 

45 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

I'd say he comes from a very priveleged background having initially been among a sadhu/dera background and now exploring more mainstream Sikhi -

"mainstream" ? Mainstream Sikhi has never rejected reincarnation.

 

45 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

people who are outright disregarding him because he's challenged something they were taught from a young age. That's what I don't agree with.

Thats because you are wrong. People, like me, outrightly oppose him because of his anti-gurmat teachings.

I oppose him because he is a big supporter of darshan rogis group in USA. They support him and he supports them. the same rogi who changed the khande di pahul vidhi.

Such a heinous crime by darshan rogi yet not ONE word from ghaghri about it whilst every Sikh who has faith in his Guru has spoken against rogi.

 

46 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

I mean there's nothing wrong with having strong opinions but I can't engage in a conversation with someone who is simply blurting out some sort of emotional me vs you type of speech. I'm not interested because it seems like a waste of time as not only is it counter-productive it doesn't belong in a discussion from where one can learn from.

 

Tough. I might not be the person who you are refering to, but I will respond to any type of applause from anyone for ghaghri.

I myself don't understand why you would stand in support of someone who has said the anti-gurmat things ghaghri has said. its like you have no faith in Gurbani.

 

[mahandulai]

On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 2:24 AM, S1ngh said:

Do you agree and support Ranjit Dhahderanwala Prachar?

my friend sukhy wont tell me,

who is he, what he done?

[Jaggaa]

Well then this is news to me @chatanga1 can you please refer me to when he has called Bhai Gurdas Jee a liar. I don't really have the energy to be responding to each of your points but I have never heard this one. Oh and no you're not the person I was referring to.

However "applause for ghaghri" Slow down there, if this is your level of conversation then don't expect ANYONE to take you seriously. Nobody is applausing anyone, it's called having a discussion and exploring information. Even if you have something valid to say, if it's going to come out with hatred then it's more than likely to be disregarded. 

I'm not an affiliate of any jatha, samprada and quite frankly don't care as much as some people here do but I am against entitled individuals telling people how to think especially where they think it's fair to restrict someone to their viewpoint.

[chatanga1]

6 minutes ago, Jaggaa said:

I don't really have the energy to be responding to each of your points

Why not? i responded to each of yours.