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Can a Non-Keshadhari Sikh be the representative/Spokesperson of our Sikh religion (also social religious issues)?

Can a Non-Keshadhari Sikh be the representative/Spokesperson of our Sikh religion (also social religious issues)?  

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  1. 1. Can a Non-Keshadhari Sikh be the representative or Spokesperson of our Dharam (also social religious issues)?

    • Yes
      17
    • No
      18


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Can a Non-Keshadhari Sikh be the representative of our Sikh religion (including in our social religious issues)?

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2 hours ago, ADMIN said:

Can a Non-Keshadhari Sikh be the representative of our Sikh religion (including in our social religious issues)?

When a person becomes a religious leader/representative then he/she becomes the inspiration of many. If there is a non-keshadari Sikh then it will be seen as more acceptable to not keep kesh. This is not right, by keeping kesh we are showing Vaheguru that we accept every single hair on our body as a blessing. So no, it is not right for a non-keshadari to become a representative of Sikhi.

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I do not believe so.  Maybe this person chooses to trim the beard or bodily hair?  Yes perhaps.  If they keep it short as most people around the world do then no!  Kesh is what our Guru told us to keep, plain and simple.  If you do not have 5 ks then you shouldn't represent the Guru.

...I also think that if you do not dress in all dark blue/yellow and do not carry a full length kirpan, and kara on both arms then you shouldn't be a spokesperson either.

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1 hour ago, genie said:

RSS and other non-Sikh agents easily infiltrate Sikh orgs its not a problem for them. Just need to grow kesh, a beard and put on a pagh and can do what the hell they want like they have been doing since the days of Sikh raj.Just as badal akali party, neo-Akal takht jathedhars and SGPC leaders do currently. They have no love for Sikhi or spreading Sikhi they quite happy to live and serve under non-sikh rule and subjugation in their own Sikh homeland, madness.

The most powerful and destructive keshdhari non-sikh forces in the Sikh empire were the kesdhari hindu dogra prime minister and keshdhari brahmin hindu generals (lal singh and tej singh) of the Khalsa army. The biggest killers of Sikh youths in late 90s early 1990s punjab was keshdhari DGP KPS Gill and congress chief minister keshdhari beant singh. The one who betrayed the Sikhs by not getting them a separate country but siding with joining Indian Union was Keshdhari Master Tara singh (a so called hindu convert to sikhi). There are videos on youtube of sly punjabi christians posing in turban and long beard urging Sikhs to become christian.

So answer to question is yes all monay/sehajdhari Sikhs should be allowed to hold offices in Sikh institutions and be spokesmen, their actions and words will justify if they have interests and love for Sikhs and Sikhi or are fake Sikhs like their counterparts in daastar disguise like the keshdhari ones.

just as a nihang has to earn bana by sewa and displaying santokh and nimrata , same way how about mona sikhs have to prove their loyalties and konwledge of sikhi first before being given any role that could harm the sikh youth and its future (in this I am also including paghwale keshadhari who have not become khalsa)

Anyone trying to conflate/alter gurbani arth to pro-hinduvta propaganda will be named and shamed and become persona non grata for the panth

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6 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

mona sikhs have to prove their loyalties and konwledge of sikhi

How?

6 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

(in this I am also including paghwale keshadhari who have not become khalsa

So are you saying those who have taken Amrit have automatically proved their loyalties and knowledge of Sikhi?

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Simple answer is no. If you reading history or even read Panth Parkash you'll see that kesh was the bare minimum to be considered a mimic Sikh. A Khalsa was always referred to a true Sikh by all our forefathers in their texts whether it is Gurpartap Suraj Granth or Panth Parkash.

The sahajdhari Rahitnama by Guru Gobind Singh allows converts from non-Sikh background to trim their hair, but their kids were required to be Khalsa and initiated. This made a transitionary period for people to fully commit their lineages to the Khalsa and become Sikhs.


The puratan hipster gang that is infesting the youth haven't read basic history that talks about Udassis being fringe groups that did have relations with the Khalsa, but they were not seen as Sikhs nor did they have any special favor. The penultimate goal of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib with the Khalsa was to create a Khalsa society that stretched all across the region that stretched well across Punjab and well beyond. The rigidity of religious beliefs was required to push forward the syncretic and Truly Universal Message from Vaheguru of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Guru Sahib knew this. There's a reason why diaspora Hindus have no unity and why weak religious structured people fall apart and lose the test of time.

 

When I was a mona I still considered myself a Sikh in a sense that I saw my own shortcoming and non-Sikh activity of being a mona despite being born into it. Always wanted to eventually keep kesh and acknowledged my own shortcomings. Even now, after keeping kesh, that doesn't mean I've achieved anything. The common denominator is looking at Sikhi from a lower place as something that despite being flawed, we can acknwoeldge a sort of a standard for.

 

ਨਾ ਸਸਤ੍ਰ ਕੇਸੰ ਨਰੰ ਭੇਡ ਜਾਨੋ | ਗਹੇ ਕਾਨ ਤਾਕੋ ਕਿਤੈ ਲੈ ਸਿਧਾਨੋ |੯੮| ਇਹੈ ਮੋਰ ਆਗਿਆ ਸੁਨੋ ਲੈ ਪਿਆਰੇ | ਬਿਨਾ ਤੇਗ ਕੇਸੰ ਦਿਵੋ ਨ ਦਿਦਾਰੇ | Without weapons and uncut hair, you are but sheep, who can be led anywhere by the ear. 1Guru Gobind Singh orders, without kesh and weapons, don't come before me.

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6 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

How?

So are you saying those who have taken Amrit have automatically proved their loyalties and knowledge of Sikhi?

if we are using the model of nihang initiation then if they had gone through the years of sewa , santhiya etc then maybe  else I would do the same as for the mona/sehjdhari  types . I think all parts of our groups need to upp their game , it's too easy for non sikhs to pretend to be us .

I personally hate those dimwits who mimic musley shaved/faded  hairstyles  it just blurs the lines for young impressionable sikh children .

Edited by jkvlondon

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8 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

How?

So are you saying those who have taken Amrit have automatically proved their loyalties and knowledge of Sikhi?

A person who has taken Khande Di Pahul under Guru Gobind Singh was simply required to pledge his allegiance to the Khalsa Army to fight against Adharm. They simply gave their pind name and identifying things just so they wouldn't dessert.


The making of a Giani takes a lifetime and like Gurbani says, "Virle keyi ke" only the virla individual will be able to commit to such a Path. Guru Sahib made being Khalsa in of itself a Dharm and with kirpa and Rehit, maybe one day, the mind will be steady enough to benefit off Naam.


The expectations were always realistic and reasonable, not everyone had to be a Gyani dhiaani banda to lead the Khalsa nor is that indicative of character and their sacrifice for the Kaum.

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2 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

if we are using the model of nihang initiation then if they had gone through the years of sewa , santhiya etc then maybe  else I would do the same as for the mona/sehjdhari  types . I think all parts of our groups need to upp their game , it's too easy for non sikhs to pretend to be us .

I don't really understand your post. Are you now saying only those who have gone through the Nihang style have proved their loyalities and knowledge or are you suggesting it?

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Just now, MrDoaba said:

I don't really understand your post. Are you now saying only those who have gone through the Nihang style have proved their loyalities and knowledge or are you suggesting it?

I am saying if you've gone through lowering of your ego through Bani, Sewa  and simran for some years after submitting yourself to Guru ji's rehit before even getting basic recognition as a starting sikh, then why would you allow someone who never fully submitted their minds let alone bodies to Guru ji's sikhi to have a platform to speak on others behalf ? surely it would be better to make sure they were as loyal to sikhi  as knowledgable by testing them in a similar way ..

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24 minutes ago, Singh559 said:

A person who has taken Khande Di Pahul under Guru Gobind Singh was simply required to pledge his allegiance to the Khalsa Army to fight against Adharm. They simply gave their pind name and identifying things just so they wouldn't dessert. 

I have heard in Katha that in many cases in order to be eligible for Amrit there was some rather stringent testing.

24 minutes ago, Singh559 said:

The expectations were always realistic and reasonable, not everyone had to be a Gyani dhiaani banda to lead the Khalsa nor is that indicative of character and their sacrifice for the Kaum.

Fair enough.

14 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

am saying if you've gone through lowering of your ego through Bani, Sewa  and simran for some years after submitting yourself to Guru ji's rehit before even getting basic recognition as a starting sikh, then why would you allow someone who never fully submitted their minds let alone bodies to Guru ji's sikhi to have a platform to speak on others behalf ? surely it would be better to make sure they were as loyal to sikhi  as knowledgable by testing them in a similar way .. 

You're not being realistic lol. Not every single Amritdhari has been through everything you've mentioned yet they are given full platform rights. Amritdharis are not tested in the way you're suggesting lol, or well at least not anymore.

The Nihang model is not applicable in the west as even they themselves (real Nihangs) will say one cannot technically be a Nihang in the west under currrent cirumstances. Being a Nihang is a full time commitment to a specific lifestyle.

Edited by MrDoaba
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