Eradicating Anand Karaj & Sikhi from the planet

[Guest Plus One]

On 11/29/2018 at 9:18 AM, Guest IndiraGandhi RSS said:

Q1) Can you not call yourself a sikh, unless you are amrtidhari?

This is what we have to force Sikhs themselves to believe. As that way we will reduce these clowns to being a 3% minority in Punjab with Amritdhari role models like the Badals to use as a way to further destroy the Sikh Panth. The genius of using Sikhs themselves to weaken their own Panth is awesome if I do say so myself!

Q2)Is anand karaj ONLY for amritdharees?

This is what we in the RSS and Sant Samaj have to promote amongst Sikhs! As the more these Sikh clowns alienate couples and future generations away from their Gurdwara and local Sangat the better. We need to redouble our efforts at breaking away the links of sehajdhari Sikhs away from their Gurdwara and Panth to hurt them demographically.

Q3) How many amritdharees have been FORCED to become amritdhari so that they can fit in, and call themselves a sikh?  

Well it doesn't really matter if one or two might have faked themselves as Amritdhari's to fit in. The main thing is that for every one of them we are breaking away a hundred sehajdhari Sikhs away from their Gurdwara Sangat and it will mean that they and their children are permanently lost from the Sikh Panth thereby weakening those clowns.

Q4) my parent's weren't amritdharee, but they had anand karaj. They both have faith in sikhi, both do bhagti but are NOT ready for amrit yet. Does this mean that I was born out of wedlock (haram) since righteous Sikhs are saying that a couple MUST be amritdhari to validate Anand karaj?

This is exactly the kind of stigma we have to promote amongst sehajdhari Sikhs. The aim of the game is to restrict the number of Anand Karaj's to the 5% of Sikhs who are Amritdhari (like the Badals and Amere Muhammad Dhaliwal) whilst simultaneously encouraging sehajdhari Sikhs who wish to get married that they can freely do at the local RSS run Mandir. As it better that the money involved in getting married enriches RSS coffers rather Gurdwara golaks.

Q5) Is this Guru Nanak ji's sikhi is this some new version that I missed along the line?

Given that Guru Nanak married Mata Sulakhani when she was a non-Sikh and brought her into the fold of Sikhi via Anand Karaj we need to work hard to hide this fact. We also need to hide the reality that millions of Sikhs are descended from non-Sikh ancestors who entered the Panth via Anand Karaj (with it being an acknowledgement of their being Sikh by bowing down before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj).

 

 

On 11/29/2018 at 4:11 PM, Guest Anand said:

Since the first 9 Guru's and their Mahals did not have Singh or Kaur in their names does it mean that Sant Samaj and Badal-RSS think their Anand Karaj's were invalid?

Since Mata Sulakhani was a non-Sikh at the point of her Anand Karaj does it mean that her Anand Karaj with Guru Nanak Dev Ji was invalid according to Sant Samaj and Badal-RSS.

Did the Khalsa Panth and the Amritdhari's who married rescued Hindu and Muslim women who had been raped and abused by the Muslims have invalid marriages with these erstwhile non-Sikh women according to Badal-RSS and Sant Samaj.

Given that bowing down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is an acknowledgement of accepting Sikhi in a Gurdwara and a commitment to join children and future generations to the Sikh Sangat at that Gurdwara then how can any participant in an Anand Karaj be a non-Sikh?

Particularly if male spouses must prove that they eschew violence against women as given legitimacy in Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism via formal commitment to Sikhi through an Anand Karaj course and showing that do not believe in violence against women as openly espoused by Abrahamic faiths and Hinduism.

 

On 11/30/2018 at 10:14 AM, Guest Common Sense said:

When 99% of the population in the UK and Canada are non-Sikhs (with Sikhs being an even smaller minority in other diaspora countries) it's inevitable that year after year these types of marriages will increase.

If a young bride of previously Hindu background has by virtue of having Anand Karaj now become Sikh then why not wish that couple well? Why not engage with the young couple to increase their links to Sikhi rather than alienate them?

The question is how do we turn something that could be a demographic time bomb for the community into something that links more and more ordinary people to Sikhi through this. Such marriages are increasing year after year which is an unstoppable reality that can't be ignored by blocking the odd marriage or two and the couples in all cases then severing all links with Sikhi for their future children (who should not be denied Sikhi regardless of what we might think of the parents). Otherwise the Sikh community in the Diaspora will get smaller and smaller year after year as more and more such marriages happen year after year.

The consequences of exclusion would be that the Sikh Diaspora population would be less than half its current size within a generation. Hundreds of thousands of new Sikhs came into Sikhi during the Singh Sabha era as a result of free Anand Karaj sewa that was free from the discrimination of so-called self-styled "high caste" Muslim Qureshi caste Qazi's and Brahmin Hindu Pandits. Those were the days when the Sikh population was rising sharply.

We need to get to grips with reality that a 1% minority will always have members marrying those of other backgrounds.

It's all ultimately about ensuring that the children of such marriages have strong links to their Gurdwara and feel an integral part of the Sikh Panth. This is exactly what happened a hundred years ago when even both spouses comprising non-Sikh couples were given the blessing of Anand Karaj at local Akali Singh Sabha Lehar Gurdwara's and millions are Sikh today as a direct result of this historical reality.

Instead of focussing on this issue, it's more important that with that efforts are put into uniting the Panth into having only a single saanjha united Sangat Gurdwara in every pind in Punjab and locality in the West. When matrimonial apartheid in biraderi terms has not been stamped out 319years after 1699, expect an ever higher number of so-called mixed marriages to occur in the future if we do nothing to tackle this anti-Gurmat discrimination.

+1000!

 

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[Guest Free Juggy]

On 11/30/2018 at 10:57 AM, Guest Common Sense said:

The question is do we want to link as much new Sangat and their future children in to the Gurdwara as possible? As a couple voluntarily wanting to get an Anand Karaj is a great opportunity if we utilise it to connect them and attendees with Sikhi.

Or is it better that couples are steered away from connecting to the Sikh Panth and told to bog off and go get a Registry or Church wedding or go to a Dera or Mandir? 

If the latter, then we are doing a good job at that already by forcing more and more to abandon Anand Karaj (even where both are of Punjabi Sikh ancestry) and Gurdwara altogether. Which is fine, if that is our aim.

But then we shouldn't really complain about Genocides of 1947 and 1984 when Amritdhari's like Badal are a tiny 3% minority in Punjab. Either we want Sikhi to grow or we want it to die off year by year in the Diaspora and become a minority even in east Punjab. 

Suppose there are 100 young Sikh guys and 100 young Sikh women of marriage age in your town. And 20 of the Sikh guys marry women from other cultures then does that mean that the corresponding 20 Sikh women (in excess of the 80 remaining Sikh guys) should remain spinsters or be excluded from having an Anand Karaj?

By excluding 20% of Sikh each generation then pretty soon there won't be much of a Diaspora Sikh population left. This is about simple mathematics.

Great point which I never thought about before.

If 10,000 Punjabi Sikhs marry out in the UK this year that basically forces an equal number of Punjabi Sikhs looking to get married to then find spouses from other backgrounds as there's only a fixed amount of Sikhs to go round.

So if we don't encourage everyone to come Gurdwara we could die out in the UK

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[jkvlondon]

1 hour ago, Guest Free Juggy said:

Great point which I never thought about before.

If 10,000 Punjabi Sikhs marry out in the UK this year that basically forces an equal number of Punjabi Sikhs looking to get married to then find spouses from other backgrounds as there's only a fixed amount of Sikhs to go round.

So if we don't encourage everyone to come Gurdwara we could die out in the UK

own experience is that gurdwarey are not family friendly in terms of sitting together which would help if there is a sehajdhari partner learning or even very young kids/babies both parents are able to handle the brood quietly without kids running all over the shop .

In the early days when we moved to ilford we went from no chance of nearby sangat to two gurdwarey nearby  , so we thought we were so lucky . First few visits went ok  but then some tied beard buffoon tried manhandling my husband from sitting next to me at the back of the hall (out of eyeline of sangat) this was when I had to deal with two premature twins and a two year old at the same time , logistical nightmare . Honestly we had an easier time in Indian gurdwarey because most people sit in family groups so people are  not rigid so, seeing that My husband was really put off going for a long while  . It is really hard to read sikhi's messages then have ppl in real life acting like stormtroopers in the gurdwara. .

[Amit12]

TBH, my sister just got married yesterday..... i attended the anand karaj ( 'course i would ) and i paid special attention to the Laavas that Raagis sing during the Anand Karaj. and tbh, i did not heard a single line where Guru Sahib Talks abt Bride And Groom.... Guru sahib is only talking abt a Gursikh (Bride ) and Akaal Purakh ( the Groom )..... 

I Think Anand Karaj should be for everyone and not exclusive.... for i think this is just another tactics of the Enemy (RSS) to further divide sikhs and Specially separate YOUTH from Gurudwaras and SikHi...

 

[jkvlondon]

5 hours ago, Amit12 said:

TBH, my sister just got married yesterday..... i attended the anand karaj ( 'course i would ) and i paid special attention to the Laavas that Raagis sing during the Anand Karaj. and tbh, i did not heard a single line where Guru Sahib Talks abt Bride And Groom.... Guru sahib is only talking abt a Gursikh (Bride ) and Akaal Purakh ( the Groom )..... 

I Think Anand Karaj should be for everyone and not exclusive.... for i think this is just another tactics of the Enemy (RSS) to further divide sikhs and Specially separate YOUTH from Gurudwaras and SikHi...

 

if it just mention gurmukh/gursikh then how is it that relating to someone that is blatantly not or has no intention that direction?  Are we going to change our rite of passages to accomodate an outsider who will never go towards Guru ji like those fools who gave to amrit to general Dwyer even when he said I'm going to carry on smoking, cutting hair, boozing etc ?

[Guest StopGirl Infanticide]

21 hours ago, Amit12 said:

I Think Anand Karaj should be for everyone and not exclusive.... for i think this is just another tactics of the Enemy (RSS) to further divide sikhs and Specially separate YOUTH from Gurudwaras and SikHi...

 

Exactly - given the male female imbalance in Punjab it means there are automatically not enough Sikh spouses of one gender to go round.

On top of that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that almost 99% in Canada are non-Sikh

... 99.4% in the UK are non-Sikh ... and 99.9% in the USA are non-Sikh

... so its totally inevitable that some people are bound to marry others whose parents are not both Punjabi Sikhs.

Which in turn means that an equal number will have to find spouses from other backgrounds as there are not enough Sikhs to go round

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[Guest StopGirl Infanticide]

15 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

those fools who gave to amrit to general Dwyer even when he said I'm going to carry on smoking, cutting hair, boozing etc ?

Exactly restricting Anand Karaj to killers of the Sikhs like Dwyer who was technically given the status of an Amritdhari like the Badals whilst our community become smaller and smaller each generation via breaking more and more away from their local Gurdwara each generation is a recipe for disaster. 

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[Guest Amritdhari Dwyer]

Siropa needs to be given to @GuestSingh too. He hates on Bhatra Sikhs, White Sikhs and Black Sikhs.

But says Anand Karaj should only be for Amritdhari's despite clearly being a racist and casteist non-Sikh troll himself. 

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[puzzled]

if you read the laava then you will know that anand karaj is clearly about the couple committing to the sikh way of life, guru ji himself tells us who anand karaj is for, then why are here debating?   anand karaj is about committing to sikhi and guru ji as a couple, so how the hell does a christian, paki, hindu or whatever fit into this? 

we are sitting before our guru and saying we as a couple will commit to you, then why drag other faiths into this? 

would you let a christian, muslim, hindu take amrit? if a hindu says i want to take amrit because my wife is sikh but im still gnna remain hindu and follow the hindu faith, then would you let him take amrit?   then how can you let a non sikh take part in anand karaj if they not gnna follow sikhi but follow another religion. 

how can you let these people sit before our guru and pretend to be sikh for one day and then turn their back the very next day? how can you take part in a ceremony about commitment  if your not committed? 

maharaja ranjit singh had his @ss whipped for marrying  a muslim nachan wali, then who are the hell are these insignificant lalloo nobodies to say "oh i want a interfaith anand karaj"  if the maharaja of punjab fell down to his knees and got his @ss whipped, then what the hell makes these nobodies think that they can question maryada. 

[Guest GuestSingh]

20 hours ago, Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh said:

Who are you ?    That's one question.

Why is a Mod masquerading as a 'guest' ?   That's another.

Funny and strange how one Mod has still not posted all messages written by all guests over the last 3 days and yet mysteriously seemingly approved and even posted yours that you wrote in reply to a point someone made 12 mins earlier. 

Written, posted and appeared all within 12 mins    Other Mods.......you might wanna look into what this particular Mod is up to....particularly as other threads did indeed have people writing messages for them but this particular Mod is more than happy for the forum to die a slow and sad death rather than maintain a vibrant discussion forum.

it is strange how almost all these 'guest' replies appeared within minutes/hours of each other yet genuine posts from the sangat take days like you say to show up...

if you notice, this tends to happen every few months or so - seems like anonymous venting with false accusations against someone they dislike or hold a grudge against, like above, presumably because they feel the need to 'keep up appearances' and 'save face' with their usual account...

who are you 'guest xxxx'? stop using multiple id's and reveal your identity.