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Guest Sant Nicholas Das

Why are Deras succeeding so much?

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Guest Sant Nicholas Das

Why are Deras seeing so much success in Punjab? My family particularly has been going to a small dera for generations and having recently gone back to Punjab, I've seen so much anti-gurmat things at these kind of places. I especially noticed that the Radha Soami dera leader has immense influence in the Doaba region. I see his photo in every other house/shop. Is there rise in power correlated to Sikhi getting weaker? Are there any ways to combat Deras in a non-Taliban approach? Lol. Is there a way to make the people understand and critically think why their supporting these Deras rather than going towards Sikhi? I've personally tried to point out the anti-gurmat ways of the sant my family worships and they think I've been brainwashed and pretty much stop me from saying anything negative against "Babaji" saying that he's done alot for the family. 

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11 hours ago, Guest Sant Nicholas Das said:

Why are Deras seeing so much success in Punjab? My family particularly has been going to a small dera for generations and having recently gone back to Punjab, I've seen so much anti-gurmat things at these kind of places. I especially noticed that the Radha Soami dera leader has immense influence in the Doaba region. I see his photo in every other house/shop. Is there rise in power correlated to Sikhi getting weaker? Are there any ways to combat Deras in a non-Taliban approach? Lol. Is there a way to make the people understand and critically think why their supporting these Deras rather than going towards Sikhi? I've personally tried to point out the anti-gurmat ways of the sant my family worships and they think I've been brainwashed and pretty much stop me from saying anything negative against "Babaji" saying that he's done alot for the family. 

Firstly, I think the Blame is on SGPC as they are not doing their duties to Spread "Gurmat Parchaar". Many Individuals have stood up against these but the lack of Financial resources is what Hurdles them. While SGPC should be the organization to do this job, They won't even Hire a Gurmat Boy in their organization as the people they hire are mostly hired after receiving Bribes. 

Secondly, i also put the blame on "So Called, Religious DALS" i.e. ( Damdami Taksal and many others ) who, instead of raising awareness in the society about DERA-VAAD, they are too busy Kissing Feet of Badals and Co. , and ultimately Kissing feets of RSS. ( Because it has been proven that Badal is A Big time supporter of RSS, and Badal's Man Majithia who is responsible for spreading the Drugs in Punjab. ) But they do nothing when agents of RSS are occupying The Gurudwaras in U.K. and Canada. 

No Philosophy can Survive if they dont protect themselves from external powers. Every Faith has internal conflicts but you dont attack them physically, You address them in debates.

These Organizations ( SGPC and DDT etc. ) could have done Soo much because Most of punjab still have utmost faith in them. But they are too busy Cursing People and beating them, Rolling the Crowns ( Turbans ) in feet ( Dirt ).  They are just filling their Pockets on the Shaheediya of other MAHAAN Gursikhs. Because, If a Father is a UTMOST GURSIKH, it doesn't mean his Coming generations will also be GURSIKHS, let alone of the same calibre as the father was. THE BIGGEST EXAMPLE IS GURU NANAK DEV JI. 

And Last but not the Least, The third Blame goes to the Sikhs themselves, 'course, for not doing their Homework before teaching their kids every filthy thing that they did because some DERA-HEAD told so. 

Anybody who differs the opinion is welcome to Prove me wrong, JUST DONT CURSE. Back your arguments with Facts and GURBANI, Not Kathas. 

Edited by Amit12
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Deras offer security and and support. Many actualy give jobs to their followers, bring them out of poverty, pay for hospital bills and pay school fees. They also dont discriminate against dalits which is a reason why majority of their followers are dalits. They help poor families get their daughters married off and do mass weddings. So you can see why people resort to these places. There are many dera followers in the region my parents are from who some how are now more financially better now than they were before. 

Deras also encourage their followers to get their daughters married into families who also believe in the same dera, this guarantees A future generation of devotees. 

My parents are from doaba and sikhi is on the brink in doaba, close to extinction. Majority of the pinds here follow deras or other baba type places. In many pinds babas have started creeping in and are building their centres on the outskirts of the pinds. Pind gurdwaras are abandoned and on a good day have around 3 people in sangat listening to rehras and sohila sahib. 

Deras are more successful than any christian and Islamic missionaries. It's amazing how influencal these places are. 

Edited by puzzled
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16 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Deras offer security and and support. Many actualy give jobs to their followers, bring them out of poverty, pay for hospital bills and pay school fees. They also dont discriminate against dalits which is a reason why majority of their followers are dalits. They help poor families get their daughters married off and do mass weddings. So you can see why people resort to these places. There are many dera followers in the region my parents are from who some how are now more financially better now than they were before. 

Deras also encourage their followers to get their daughters married into families who also believe in the same dera, this guarantees A future generation of devotees. 

My parents are from doaba and sikhi is on the brink in doaba, close to extinction. Majority of the pinds here follow deras or other baba type places. In many pinds babas have started creeping in and are building their centres on the outskirts of the pinds. Pind gurdwaras are abandoned and on a good day have around 3 people in sangat listening to rehras and sohila sahib. 

Deras are more successful than any christian and Islamic missionaries. It's amazing how influencal these places are. 

True.

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Short answer: they have a thorough albeit cynical grasp on psychology, particularly the psychology of the religious Punjabi mind. All they do is capitalise on this knowledge, and the rest just falls into place. All cults and related spiritual movements operate in similar ways. Weak-minded individuals who may purport to believe in an Almighty creator are actually seeking something a lot more human in which to place their trust and efforts. I'm afraid the indescribable and formless Akal Purakh is simply too abstract for the Punjabi mind to fathom.

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5 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Short answer: they have a thorough albeit cynical grasp on psychology, particularly the psychology of the religious Punjabi mind. All they do is capitalise on this knowledge, and the rest just falls into place. All cults and related spiritual movements operate in similar ways. Weak-minded individuals who may purport to believe in an Almighty creator are actually seeking something a lot more human in which to place their trust and efforts. I'm afraid the indescribable and formless Akal Purakh is simply too abstract for the Punjabi mind to fathom.

Hoarding knowledge to exploit the ignorant, Sri Guru Granth Sahib is supposed to stop that, no ?

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Most anti-Sikh deras are supported by Hindu government and before that British to keep Sikhs weak and down.

They are successful because most sheep need somebody to hold their hand and acknowledge their existence and told its ok to stand here or sit there. 

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2 hours ago, Redoptics said:

Hoarding knowledge to exploit the ignorant, Sri Guru Granth Sahib is supposed to stop that, no ?

Unfortunately, for the vast majority of Sikhs, SGGS Ji is nothing more than words in a book. That's where the problem begins.

Btw, a dera in the classic sense of the word means -- loosely -- haven, but in the religious sense it refers to a base of spirituality and worship, arguably the Eastern equivalent of perhaps a monastery? The contemporary take on the word has become to be loaded with mostly negative connotations, whereby modern deras are viewed asm mysterious compounds in which a dera figurehead resides with his loyal followers. What transpires behind those closed doors is anyone's guess.

 

 

Edited by MisterrSingh

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4 hours ago, puzzled said:

Deras offer security and and support. Many actualy give jobs to their followers, bring them out of poverty, pay for hospital bills and pay school fees. They also dont discriminate against dalits which is a reason why majority of their followers are dalits. They help poor families get their daughters married off and do mass weddings. So you can see why people resort to these places. There are many dera followers in the region my parents are from who some how are now more financially better now than they were before. 

Deras also encourage their followers to get their daughters married into families who also believe in the same dera, this guarantees A future generation of devotees. 

My parents are from doaba and sikhi is on the brink in doaba, close to extinction. Majority of the pinds here follow deras or other baba type places. In many pinds babas have started creeping in and are building their centres on the outskirts of the pinds. Pind gurdwaras are abandoned and on a good day have around 3 people in sangat listening to rehras and sohila sahib. 

Deras are more successful than any christian and Islamic missionaries. It's amazing how influencal these places are. 

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh

Which deras are you speaking about? Im from the same region, but my village mostly follows Hinduism rather than deras. 

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3 minutes ago, Preeet said:

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh

Which deras are you speaking about? Im from the same region, but my village mostly follows Hinduism rather than deras. 

i don't know a lot about them but i hear "beas wala" a lot    my thia showed me the land that the beas wala dera owns and its was a stretch of miles and miles of land, mostly donated by the followers. 

the government of punjab is also hugely involved in dera activity 

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3 hours ago, puzzled said:

i don't know a lot about them but i hear "beas wala" a lot    my thia showed me the land that the beas wala dera owns and its was a stretch of miles and miles of land, mostly donated by the followers. 

the government of punjab is also hugely involved in dera activity 

Beas wala is radhasoamis dera. 

They been there for a while. 

This dera problem been there such gurus time. Back then it was sakhi sarvar and graves (marrhi ) worship and muslim peers. Now its anybody with a following. 

I think like the caste system, deras r part of panjabi culture. Gurujis tried to get us to stop all the terrible short sighted cultural things. But we havent. 

In india, ppl need someone to ask for help in hard times cuz theres no social security or welfare or state benefits. Also ppl need to ask for sons, and help with getting a job, and other things that determine status. 

To counter this, Guruji did start Langar, and fullfilled wishes. And there r isthaans for sons-giving. And bani for specific wishes.

But panjabis have either forgotten or need something more new and exotic in the religion arena. Hearing just do more paath, isnt consoling enough. 

Also there r some genuinely bad panjabis. They just dont mesh with sikhi. Like those that take bribes, deal in drugs, do black magic, murder their families for land/business and other underhanded activities. Those ppl need a more compatible religìon, so they invent their own. I say leave them to it. 

 

 

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Guest Sant Nicholas Das

Interesting points from everyone. Do you guys know if there are movements to sway people away from all of this? I know Dhandrianwale has spoken out against Deras but people have varying opinions about him in general.

 

Also please excuse my misuse of 'their' 'there' and 'they're' in my original post haha. Proofreading is a good habit I need to have lol. 

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7 hours ago, Guest Sant Nicholas Das said:

Interesting points from everyone. Do you guys know if there are movements to sway people away from all of this? I know Dhandrianwale has spoken out against Deras but people have varying opinions about him in general.

 

Also please excuse my misuse of 'their' 'there' and 'they're' in my original post haha. Proofreading is a good habit I need to have lol. 

Although 90% of people here hate missionaries, But Missionries and dhardiawala are the only one who are openly speaking all out against DERA-VAAD. While the other "So Called" Puratan Jathes are doing Nothing because speaking agaisnt Dera-Vaad, might Hurt the feelings of their own DERA 

 

 

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