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Gurmat vs Evolution


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12 hours ago, Wicked Warrior said:

Because it hasn’t been defined. So please explain what is meant by a “life form” and give examples. 

The amount of energy you spent on protecting evolution theory.  And dont down play it now.  Your first post was written as if you wanted to have a go at kulbir Singh.  Had you spent that energy asking questions we would not be having this conversation right now.

Go ask kulbir Singh how he translates life form.  He wrote it up.  

This is the inherent problem with Sikhs.  They will defend worldly knowledge or theories with everything they got.  But when it comes to standing up for Sikhi.  Well then it's up to the individual how they want to interpret Gurvani and make the mass follow it.  But this is not all Sikhs fault.  They grow up brainwashed by their western school system.   They taught religions are all the same, but science is the hard fact.   And we see that here in this topic.  You may have spent 10 years studying science and you are all tangled up because someone didn't present science as you were taught.  But what about that high school teacher or university professor who butchers your religion and you sit back and take it like good citizens because everyone is entitled to their feelings.  What separate a Gursikh from a Sikh? When he hears bad mouthing of Sikhi, his core aad shakti is provoked and nothing matters more than speaking the truth.

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On 1/12/2019 at 12:10 AM, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Gurbani refers to the concept of Shiva-Shakti repeatedly . Shiva is consciousness (our mann) , Shakti is the matter/energy . Consciousness (mann) and matter (physical body) evolved together side by side all these billions of years. 

Thats why you see progressive levels of consciousness from plant level to humans . 

 

Thats a very beautiful explanation. I never thought of it that way before. Tho, it is very similar to how bhai veer singh ji did teeka of the pavan guru paani pita salok. 

On 1/12/2019 at 12:10 AM, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Thats a very gross interpretation of Gurbaani. It means infact the raw ingredients for an entire sequence of events to happen were put at once , then their was just play and interaction between elements and we see baani is true. The collective sum of elements on earth is same, its just chemical reactions between molecules that led to life and formation of cells. But that same elements are present. 

Thx for that explanantion. My dad is against evolution and always quotes that pangti that says "Jo Kish Paya So Eka Vaar" and ur explanation is a good counterpoint. Also, how would you define elements as tat then? But gurbani says there are only 5 tat? i think tat could be energy, matter, life force, and..........never mind. Maybe the panj tat are categories of elements like metals, nonmetals, transition metals, noble gases, and heavy metals??

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On 1/13/2019 at 8:51 PM, Akalifauj said:

The amount of energy you spent on protecting evolution theory.  And dont down play it now.  Your first post was written as if you wanted to have a go at kulbir Singh.  Had you spent that energy asking questions we would not be having this conversation right now.

Go ask kulbir Singh how he translates life form.  He wrote it up.  

This is the inherent problem with Sikhs.  They will defend worldly knowledge or theories with everything they got.  But when it comes to standing up for Sikhi.  Well then it's up to the individual how they want to interpret Gurvani and make the mass follow it.  But this is not all Sikhs fault.  They grow up brainwashed by their western school system.   They taught religions are all the same, but science is the hard fact.   And we see that here in this topic.  You may have spent 10 years studying science and you are all tangled up because someone didn't present science as you were taught.  But what about that high school teacher or university professor who butchers your religion and you sit back and take it like good citizens because everyone is entitled to their feelings.  What separate a Gursikh from a Sikh? When he hears bad mouthing of Sikhi, his core aad shakti is provoked and nothing matters more than speaking the truth.

What is the gurbani theory of evolution or creation? I see nothing in sikhi that is at odds with the the theory of evolution? 

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On 1/12/2019 at 12:10 AM, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

 

Thats a very gross interpretation of Gurbaani. It means infact the raw ingredients for an entire sequence of events to happen were put at once , then their was just play and interaction between elements and we see baani is true. The collective sum of elements on earth is same, its just chemical reactions between molecules that led to life and formation of cells. But that same elements are present.

Your interpretation is factual wrong because the shabad says:

ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੁ ਏਕਾ ਵਾਰ ॥
ਜੋ ਕੁਝ (ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਨੇ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਭੰਡਾਰਿਆਂ ਵਿਚ) ਪਾਇਆ ਹੈ ਇਕੋ ਵਾਰੀ ਪਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ,
Whatever was put into them, was put there once and for all.

The word ਜੋ means whatever.  You have translated it as "raw ingredients" This is your incorrect and biased interpretation. This pauri does not say after the raw ingredients were used to cause chemical reactions and so forth came life and so on.  This pauri says whatever was put in the worlds was put all at once.  The pauri does not describe further what that whatever was.  For you to make an assumption is wrong.

 

ਆਸਣੁ ਲੋਇ ਲੋਇ ਭੰਡਾਰ ॥
ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਦੇ ਭੰਡਾਰਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਟਿਕਾਣਾ ਹਰੇਕ ਭਵਨ ਵਿਚ ਹੈ ।
On world after world are His Seats of Authority and His Storehouses.

ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੁ ਏਕਾ ਵਾਰ ॥
ਜੋ ਕੁਝ (ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਨੇ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਭੰਡਾਰਿਆਂ ਵਿਚ) ਪਾਇਆ ਹੈ ਇਕੋ ਵਾਰੀ ਪਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ,
Whatever was put into them, was put there once and for all.

ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੁ ॥
ਸ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ ਨੂੰ ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ (ਜੀਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ) ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰ ਕੇ (ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ) ਸੰਭਾਲ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ।
Having created the creation, the Creator Lord watches over it.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੇ ਕੀ ਸਾਚੀ ਕਾਰ ॥
ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ ! ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ (ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ) ਦੀ (ਸ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ ਦੀ ਸੰਭਾਂਲ ਵਾਲੀ) ਇਹ ਕਾਰ ਸਦਾ ਅਟੱਲ ਹੈ (ਉਕਾਈ ਤੋਂ ਖ਼ਾਲੀ ਹੈ)।
O Nanak, True is the Creation of the True Lord.

ਆਦੇਸੁ ਤਿਸੈ ਆਦੇਸੁ ॥
ਕੇਵਲ ਉਸ (ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ) ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਮ ਕਰੋ, 
I bow to Him, I humbly bow.

ਆਦਿ ਅਨੀਲੁ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਨਾਹਤਿ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਏਕੋ ਵੇਸੁ ॥੩੧॥
ਜੋ ਸੁੱਧ-ਸਰੂਪ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਮੁੱਢ ਨਹੀਂ (ਲੱਭ ਸਕਦਾ), ਜੋ ਨਾਸ-ਰਹਿਤ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਜੋ ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਇਕੋ ਜਿਹਾ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ ।੩੧।
The Primal One, the Pure Light, without beginning, without end. Throughout all the ages, He is One and the Same. ||31||

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Bhai Kulbir Singh of Gurmat Bibek is a good man with lots of giyan and he is still studying a lot about sikhi. It is the sangat of his area who is following a very strict gurmat based life; which many may not understand their lifestyle and may confuse them. If you see their videos, it shows us how the actual sikh/khalsa should live their life in this life. 

I have to admire him for standing for the truth rather than siding with jathas. One example is that lots of akj were siding (still many are) with Purewal Fake calendars. Bhai Kulbir Singh was also the early believer of Purewal calendar back in early 2000's. After many discussions and his own research, he admitted that purewal is fraud and fake. He accepts the bikrami calendar while still most of the AKJ (like UK and elsewhere) does not simply accepts it for whatever reason. He took the stand based on truth. 

Sorry for going off-topic. just thought of giving information about a singh whom i saw progressing a lot in gurmat.   

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