Jump to content

What is free will in sikhi?


mahandulai
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 1/24/2019 at 9:30 AM, mahandulai said:

If someone is a great saint, and japs a lot, are they good, through their own doing? Then, why blame, another or someone, for something, if GOd guides all?

Well you are a saint. We all follow your philosophy through your youtube channel. Maybe one day we can be on your level.

lol 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

What would you say to Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji who did not wear the janue? The janue showed up in his life, but he wanted something different.  So was he feeding his ego?  Why didn't he accept to be a hindu as he was born in a Hindu family? What you are describing is the teaching of the hindu scriptures that is considered to be part of the 3 lower qualities that dont know the fourth way which Guru Sahib has given.  

We don't have a will.  Today Guru Sahib gives me the blessing of praising him.  Tomorrow he takes me to the pit of hell and makes me forget his name by absorbing me in anger and the roller coaster of emotions takes over.  Next sunrise I feel humbled for I understand I don't control anything and beg for his mercy.  

Guru Nanak Dev ji was beyond the illusion . Most of us are living in illusion that does not make us any less.  You missed the essence of Sikhi. Gurus came to tell us how special we are not to tell us we should adore them how special they were. There is only one us. All your explanations are separation based them vs us and so on....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, scali said:

Guru Nanak Dev ji was beyond the illusion . Most of us are living in illusion that does not make us any less.  You missed the essence of Sikhi. Gurus came to tell us how special we are not to tell us we should adore them how special they were. There is only one us. All your explanations are separation based them vs us and so on....

Explain what illusion Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji was beyond?  I ask you guys to define terms so they can be discussed but you guys refuse too.  Many feminists like to keep key terms in a discussion ambiguous so they can change the meaning as it serves them best.  I applied your theory of 'Gods will is your will and your will is Gods will' to Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji not accepting the janue that showed up in his life and he wanted something different.  According to you this is being in ego, but we know through Gurbani this is being a Gurmukh.  Your theory didn't pass the test of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji decision making, which is classified as Gurmat.  Therefore your theory is meaningless in Sikhi.  Let's put your theory further to the test.  I mob is about to burn a baby alive in front of you.  Now this has showed up in your life.  To want something different in this scenario would be to not have that baby burnt alive and to save it.  For you, according to your theory the correct action is to do nothing.  Now this is what Hindu swamis do. They do nothing and let that baby be burnt alive.  The Guru has given Sikhs the instructions to stand up for the innocent even if your life is at risk.  The Sikh will make an attempt to save the baby from the mob and risk his life.  This is the teaching of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharak and this is how the Sikh will act.  If the Sikhs hands are tied and unable to escape and cant save the child then the Sikh will accept the hukam(will) of Vaheguru. I provide this example because Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa Bhindranwale was presented with this scenario from a hindu swami.  The swami provided a answer much like yours.  But Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa Bhindranwale gave an answer to what I have said is the Gurus hukam by attempting to save the baby.  

what you describe is how a plant has been limited by Vaheguru.   The plant can't get up and move into the shade.  It can't go get food or even protect itself.  It has to endure all that comes to it.  It has certain mechanisms to protect itself but not from every day occurrence like someone stomping on it or ripping it out of the soil. It can't stop certain animals from eating its leaves.  A plant has to accept everything that shows up in its life.  But even plants attempt to fight off a disease.  So maybe you want to be like a rock.  

what you were trying to say was that accept everything in your life that is according to gurmat.  So if a husband and wife are about to have a third girl.   They should accept her without having any doubts and not have an abortion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You seem to have missed Guru Arjan Dev ji Shaeedi of ultimate acceptance. The lesson was for us. The illusion is we are separate from GOD but in the ultimate reality only one of us exist.

Out of body experience, astral travel, samadhi these terms that  say, you are way more than the body is just the beginning. Choose else or accept u decide free will no one cares its a impartial law.

Gurus came to raise the human consciousness that u are doing things to yourself. Treat all as one Unity consciousnesses. It all leads to one. Living in separation mode is living in illusion. Gurus can pop in an out of illusion by will rest of us are stuck in separation mode and can’t think beyond. As for what I decide when something shows up does not change the real essence of what I am or U are. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, scali said:

You seem to have missed Guru Arjan Dev ji Shaeedi of ultimate acceptance. The lesson was for us. The illusion is that only one of us exist.

Okay let's apply your theory to Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji.   The Mughal emperor Jahangir hated how successful Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji was to converting Hindus and muslims into Sikhi. Jahangir wanted Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji to become a Muslim.  Now your theory would tell Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji to accept what shows up in Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji life.  Instead Guru Sahib rejected emperor jahangir request to become a Muslim.  Next a marriage proposal came from Chandu Shah.  According to your theory, Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji would have to accept the proposal from Chandu Shah,  but Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji rejected the marriage proposal made to him for Hargobind Sahib ji to be married to chandu Shah daughter. So your theory is again is meaningless according to Sikhi. The latter angered chandu Shah and chandu Shah manipulated mughal emperor Jahangir to have Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji tortured and executed.  Since Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji to Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji there was no defense attempt with weapons this falls into resisting by not accepting demands made as described above.  Also this event did not end here because Vaheguru in is Sixth form as Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib ji got revenge for the torture and execution of his fifth form by torturing and killing Chandu Shah. So the Gurus did not accept the torture and execution as you describe in your theory.  Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib ji was the first Guru to pick up the sword to start a defense against oppression. 

Before you mention Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib ji as accepting your theory let me explain.  Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib ji would be following your theory if he had rejected the Kashmiri Pandits request to  help them.  Guru sahib according to your theory would let the mughal emperor kill all the Hindus because that's what came into the hindu pandits lives.  Instead Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib ji inserted himself in the middle, which you would describe as something different and egotistical, and gave his head to save the lives of the Hindus.  

Even the younger children of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji rejected to accept being muslims.  Your theory does not work in any circumstances surrounding Gurmat and the history of the Gurus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

In the first post you wrote I can't understand free will through  discussions.

No, I didn't mean that "you" as in @Akalifauj can't understand free will through discussions. I meant that "you" as in "one" or anyone (including me) cannot understand free will merely through discussions.

The entire point to my posting the Gurbani lines was to provide support to your statement:

On 1/28/2019 at 5:54 AM, Akalifauj said:

Gurbani says Vaheguru takes some off the path of Sikhi and also puts some on the path of Sikhi.

The first line is basically your sentence, only in Gurbani terms:

ਇਕਿ ਆਪੇ ਉਝੜਿ ਪਾਇਅਨੁ ਇਕਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਲਾਇਅਨੁ ॥

Some, He causes to wander in the wilderness, while others are committed to His devotional worship

 

The second line says that only those people understand who are given understanding by God:

ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪਿ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਸੋ ਬੁਝਸੀ ਆਪੇ ਨਾਇ ਲਾਈਅਨੁ ॥

He alone understands, whom the Lord causes to understand; He Himself attaches mortals to His Name.

 

By saying that "you can't understand free will through discussions" I didn't mean to take a hard position on whether free will exists or not, merely to state that the full understanding whether we have free will and to what extent can only be known when God causes us to understand (ਜਿਸੁ ਆਪਿ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਸੋ ਬੁਝਸੀ).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all Guru Sahibs did not need to have an army for defense or offense. They could appear or disappear at will. They did it all for us who are in this an illusion of separation The only theory that works is separation is an illusion. To dissect things leads to further separation more ego and longer to get out of illusion. Guru Teg Bahadur ji gave Shaeedi for Hindus free will to follow their religion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest GuestSingh

wat if someone thought 'gurbani says destiny is already written from the beginning of our existence by hukam thru previous karam and cannot be changed...so why be given the possible illusion of free will to practice wat we believe are good deeds e.g. simran, paath, seva etc to help us achieve our objective in life wen its already been decided we're either going to do it or not?'

do we still have the opportunity to influence our future and save ourselves or will it just count for little in the end anyway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The most important chapter of the Sri Guru Granth...namely Japji talks about free will vs determinism extensively.

Humans have free will and thus create karma.  To remain within Gods divine laws and command brings end to free will as the egoist mind is replaced by the the divine consciousness that perceived a human being to be a tool of God

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use