Jump to content

Sikhs in Britain


puzzled
 Share

Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

It's all very looking at the past and being nostalgic, but we can't keeping looking towards the past, we need to look to the future.

Let's build on what our parents and grandparents created for us.

Agree on that 100%

It wasn't all perfect. Negotiating the two different cultures wasn't always easy or without (sometimes serious) unexpected consequences. 

We should be more clued up about a whole range of social issues that affect us (which most of the older lot were oblivious to) and endeavour to deal with them. 

That's how we'll get more stronger as a community. We need to face up to the fact that we do have a lot of forces that, despite a facade of being benevolent towards us, are actually trying to undermine and attack our community.   

It's a time for consolidation. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/14/2019 at 8:32 AM, Guest Channel4dean said:
Hello. I am writing a screenplay for a film commissioned by Film 4 which has at its heart the Sikh experience in Smethwick in 1964. I am hoping to interview some local people who lived through this time and so now would be in their late 70's, to mid- 80's. I was wondering if the Gudwara might be the place to start in my search for such people?
 
 
Any help you could offer would be gratefully received. My contact details are ; Dean O'Loughlin. 07703 319516. Or email ; phoneydee@hotmail.com

Sounds like a potentially cool project.

I have a request: don't dilute the uniquely Sikh moments, experiences, and occurrences in your script in order to encompass a catch-all minority experience, particularly by crafting a parable for contemporary Islamic issues or any other non-descript, non-Sikh, South-East Asian minority, because Sikhs aren't Muslims or any other Asian group. We are our own people, with our own history and our experiences. We don't need or want our identity and our history to be utilised as subtext for other groups.

I wouldn't expect a documentary, but when dramatising real people and relative contemporary history, it does have the potential of going awry in certain respects, especially if the people financing the project have certain preconceived notions, demands, and expectations of the type of story they require. 

Your objectives might be noble, but it's clear from similar projects in the past that Sikhs are dealt a somewhat lax hand when it comes to faithfully representing us and our experiences for mainstream consumption by the likes of the BBC, etc.

Something to consider before you begin penning your script. You can't say you weren't made aware of these issues, because I've done so just now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest GuestSingh
On 3/7/2019 at 11:32 PM, dallysingh101 said:

Do those guys know more than one language - no.

20190316_004711.thumb.jpg.88dba56898882c36a082a1b7836d4329.jpg

we already know whitey enjoys inventing lies to try to fool the masses - even the most outrageous and laughable ones as seen in the text above - and always seeking to add their own 'mirch and masala' to all things foreign...but it still makes u wonder whether this was yet another low, sad and pathetic attempt to further confuse and distort our people i.e. language or an actual and real struggle to gain just a simple and basic understanding of eastern language syntax?

and from what u also mentioned about that macauliffes struggle and failure with it too, it sounds like whitey just wasnt as clever as they thought when it came to subjugating people in their mother tongue?

there mustve been plenty of others like em too - just look how much their own lot here struggle to speak english let alone any other language....

maybe they should research and write up a study/book on that instead...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

20190316_004711.thumb.jpg.88dba56898882c36a082a1b7836d4329.jpg

we already know whitey enjoys inventing lies to try to fool the masses - even the most outrageous and laughable ones as seen in the text above - and always seeking to add their own 'mirch and masala' to all things foreign...but it still makes u wonder whether this was yet another low, sad and pathetic attempt to further confuse and distort our people i.e. language or an actual and real struggle to gain just a simple and basic understanding of eastern language syntax?

and from what u also mentioned about that macauliffes struggle and failure with it too, it sounds like whitey just wasnt as clever as they thought when it came to subjugating people in their mother tongue?

there mustve been plenty of others like em too - just look how much their own lot here struggle to speak english let alone any other language....

maybe they should research and write up a study/book on that instead...

It was Trumpp, not Macauliffe.

 

Panjabi is infinitely more grammatically complex than English so maybe we shouldn't be too surprised at goray's struggles, plus Trumpp really did alienate most potential indigenous support he might have received with his attitude. 

The grammatical approach to interpreting bani that Trumpp seemed to be aiming at wasn't really employed fully by apnay until much later by the obviously gifted (when it came to languages) Prof. Sahib Singh (himself a convert from Hinduism).

Where's that extract you posted from? Looks interesting. Always try to be in the habit of sticking sources for people to follow when you post extracts like this bro. It's good practice and enables us to further read and evaluate them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest GuestSingh
On 3/16/2019 at 3:56 PM, dallysingh101 said:

It was Trumpp, not Macauliffe.

oh ok...still wouldnt trust any whitey regardless of whether their intentions are genuine/true.

seriously the amount of damage theyve done to panjab in so many ways has completely broken any 'trust' in em (dont trust anyone anyway but these lot are a special case.)

said it before and said it again - they are an insidious people. keep em at arms length with ur guard up at all times is my advice.

Panjabi is infinitely more grammatically complex than English so maybe we shouldn't be too surprised at goray's struggles, plus Trumpp really did alienate most potential indigenous support he might have received with his attitude. 

The grammatical approach to interpreting bani that Trumpp seemed to be aiming at wasn't really employed fully by apnay until much later by the obviously gifted (when it came to languages) Prof. Sahib Singh (himself a convert from Hinduism).

Where's that extract you posted from? Looks interesting. Always try to be in the habit of sticking sources for people to follow when you post extracts like this bro. It's good practice and enables us to further read and evaluate them. 

ok bruv.

its from mangat rai bhardwajs panjabi comprehensive grammar book - not read it all myself yet but the authors very passionate about the language so the book seriously goes into detail making the pages heavy but thats a gd thing for folk like us - you may like it a lot and already be familiar with his work since hes a linguist (panjabi/hindi/urdu) and has written otha learning material too...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

6 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

oh ok...still wouldnt trust any whitey regardless of whether their intentions are genuine/true.

seriously the amount of damage theyve done to panjab in so many ways has completely broken any 'trust' in em (dont trust anyone anyway but these lot are a special case.)

said it before and said it again - they are an insidious people. keep em at arms length with ur guard up at all times is my advice.

Thing is. How do we now as a community address the fact that pretty much 99% of what we read in English is skewed as a consequence of the colonial encounter and what people end up reading is actually a new construct called 'SIkhism' as opposed to what our ancestors were affiliated to (Sikhi).

This intellectual infiltration is so deep that even our own scholars laud work that is compromised. Scholars from back home still often have that servile mentality. 

Really we need a whole new body of literature that addresses these post-colonial issues and make sure these supplant what existed before, and clearly warn our people about the shortcomings of colonial era texts (as well as any positives that we can take away from them). 

We are in a good place to do this now because of the Internet. Not only are formerly hard to find texts infinitely more easily available, we can communicate with each other over geographic space quicker and easier than ever before. 

It's a big task though. 

 

Quote

its from mangat rai bhardwajs panjabi comprehensive grammar book - not read it all myself yet but the authors very passionate about the language so the book seriously goes into detail making the pages heavy but thats a gd thing for folk like us - you may like it a lot and already be familiar with his work since hes a linguist (panjabi/hindi/urdu) and has written otha learning material too...

Heard the name of the book's author, but have never read anything by them (I think). Thanks for the heads up. How you getting along with learning anyways?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest GuestSingh
On 3/18/2019 at 8:06 PM, dallysingh101 said:

 

Thing is. How do we now as a community address the fact that pretty much 99% of what we read in English is skewed as a consequence of the colonial encounter and what people end up reading is actually a new construct called 'SIkhism' as opposed to what our ancestors were affiliated to (Sikhi).

This intellectual infiltration is so deep that even our own scholars laud work that is compromised. Scholars from back home still often have that servile mentality. 

Really we need a whole new body of literature that addresses these post-colonial issues and make sure these supplant what existed before, and clearly warn our people about the shortcomings of colonial era texts (as well as any positives that we can take away from them). 

We are in a good place to do this now because of the Internet. Not only are formerly hard to find texts infinitely more easily available, we can communicate with each other over geographic space quicker and easier than ever before. 

It's a big task though. 

it seems so but u and others seem to have already started it by investigating/critiquing/translating historical documents and texts? we need more brothers like u with the same level of interest and knowledge but at least some conclusion can be made for now based on wat u and others have found - as u say, the internet allows any of us with this interest to see these findings for ourselves and make our own contribution and this already seems be the happening...slowly slowly but its happening...and it will happen especially amongst the youth...

imo apne just prefer to read anything they can find in english since its easier but thats where we r missing out - theres little interest in learning/developing panjabi language or any otha asian language for tht matter...ok life is busy and stressful but if ur passionate about something then we can make tym...so theres a bit of laziness imo and thats one of the problems we have atm - little interest in language learning. why is this? guruji was a polyglot so tht should motivate us a bit shouldnt it?

lets use tht book referenced in my post as an example - how many apne are gonna be interested in it, buy it and even read it? we focus too much on english language...ok our older generations have failed and let many of us down in not passing our maa boli down but we have the resources now to take us how far we want to go in it.

Heard the name of the book's author, but have never read anything by them (I think). Thanks for the heads up.

np...hes wrote a few language learning books and recently spoke about the importance of panjabi in a conference here in the uk some weeks ago if my memory is correct...would recommend this book tho - helps with learning and understanding gurbani too...

How you getting along with learning anyways?

its slowed down a bit due to a recent move plus work changes but the intention is to start on tht book and otha material asap...for now tho one of the aims is just to master the basics, taking little pieces of info here and there and collating it along the way if tht makes sense?

nowhere near to gettin anywhere to ur level atm tho bro....

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, GuestSingh said:

it seems so but u and others seem to have already started it by investigating/critiquing/translating historical documents and texts? we need more brothers like u with the same level of interest and knowledge but at least some conclusion can be made for now based on wat u and others have found - as u say, the internet allows any of us with this interest to see these findings for ourselves and make our own contribution and this already seems be the happening...slowly slowly but its happening...and it will happen especially amongst the youth...

Absolutely. I guess a lot of groundwork has been done, and yes, a lot of youth today (in the west anyway) are more inclined to critically analyse stuff like this. We as a community are just behind. African-Americans pioneered this sort of textual analysis to combat all the evil racially motivated stuff written about them. Even Arabs got on top with Edward Saeed (even if he is a Christian Arab).

Yeah, I guess the ball is rolling and will grow.

 

Quote

imo apne just prefer to read anything they can find in english since its easier but thats where we r missing out - theres little interest in learning/developing panjabi language or any otha asian language for tht matter...ok life is busy and stressful but if ur passionate about something then we can make tym...so theres a bit of laziness imo and thats one of the problems we have atm - little interest in language learning. why is this? guruji was a polyglot so tht should motivate us a bit shouldnt it?

It's a little more complex than that. It's like even people who've got A Levels in Panjabi would struggle with reading older texts. And to be frank, not everyone has that inclination (ਰੁਚੀ). Sometimes I've wonder if doing this is like the equivalent of some crusty old academic in Oxford studying some obscure antiquated text like Chaucer's Tale. But I guess it isn't, because our stuff relates to a living faith/way of life and could shed light on that - and give clues about how our society might be better.

Lack of reading is a big problem amongst Panjabis back home. It just isn't a cultural thing. Like here, you see people reading all the time, on trains/tube/planes, in parks. 

The thing about Guru ji's intellectual/educational aspect isthat it has never really been brought to the fore before. The focus has always been on Guru ji as a military leader, or spiritual leader and his ethics and bravery. That whole literary aspect of Guru ji has been largely ignored - that's what must change, to balance things out. But even Guru ji recognised that you can be a useless over educated person, when it comes to pressing times as seen in the sakhi of Rai Singh in Chaupa Singh's rehatnama.

 

Quote

lets use tht book referenced in my post as an example - how many apne are gonna be interested in it, buy it and even read it? we focus too much on english language...ok our older generations have failed and let many of us down in not passing our maa boli down but we have the resources now to take us how far we want to go in it.

Forget buying or spending money. These days you get loads of stuff for free on the web! There are umpteen online SIkh libraries (which itself shows how much love certain people have for the panth). The thing with language is that it is a never ending journey like all true learning. When you go into Sikh stuff it's like: Okay I'll learn Gurmukhi to read standard modern Panjabi. Cool, got that nailed, now to learn to read prayers with all the nuances involved there. Cool, let me increase my vocab and read scholarly stuff on Sikhi/Sikh ithihaas. OKay, now I have to get familiar with Brij Bhaha and Khari boli (whatever that is).  SO you need to truly love the journey to persist

 

Quote

 

its slowed down a bit due to a recent move plus work changes but the intention is to start on tht book and otha material asap...for now tho one of the aims is just to master the basics, taking little pieces of info here and there and collating it along the way if tht makes sense?

nowhere near to gettin anywhere to ur level atm tho bro....

 

I'm only where I am after decades of effort (on and off). Seriously, like since I was young. And Progress has come in bursts and spurts for me. And I still feel like I've got a long way to go. Anyway check this out by Kulwant Singh, who translated Bhangu's Panth Prakash and Sainapati's Sri Gursobha about translating certain works. It's interesting.

 

gursobha_translation_note.png.ef5e3ee4a5b325c0bbaba551b4aedb75.png  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest
On 3/14/2019 at 1:32 AM, Guest Channel4dean said:
Hello. I am writing a screenplay for a film commissioned by Film 4 which has at its heart the Sikh experience in Smethwick in 1964. I am hoping to interview some local people who lived through this time and so now would be in their late 70's, to mid- 80's. I was wondering if the Gudwara might be the place to start in my search for such people?
 
 
Any help you could offer would be gratefully received. My contact details are ; Dean O'Loughlin. 07703 319516. Or email ; phoneydee@hotmail.com

Admin Note - No need of the insult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use