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CAN GURU MAKE US DO SOMETHING THAT WE DIDNT INTENDED TO ?


Amit12
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18 hours ago, harsharan000 said:

Why save some as you mention above, and not His human incarnations as Guru Sahiban?  Why that discrimination?

 

The answer is, are you sure it was  Akal Purukh who reverted the  riverflow, or protected Prahlad and not any other incarnation of the hindu trinity?

 

Or when you  say, he saved Bhagat Kabir from the elephants? Are you sure, it was Kabir Jee and not  the Buddha who was saved from the mad elephant?

 

 

Casting doubt on Bhagat Prahlad saver.  Only ignorant people do it.

ਸੰਡਾ ਮਰਕਾ ਜਾਇ ਪੁਕਾਰੇ ॥

(ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਦੇ ਦੋਵੇਂ ਉਸਤਾਦ) ਸੰਡ ਅਤੇ ਅਮਰਕ ਨੇ (ਹਰਨਾਖਸ਼ ਕੋਲ) ਜਾ ਕੇ ਫ਼ਰਿਆਦ ਕੀਤੀ—ਅਸੀ ਖਪ ਲੱਥੇ ਹਾਂ,
Sanda and Marka went and complained to Harnaakhash,

ਪੜੈ ਨਹੀ ਹਮ ਹੀ ਪਚਿ ਹਾਰੇ ॥
ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਪੜ੍ਹਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ, ਉਹ ਹੱਥਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਤਾਲ ਵਜਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ,
"Your son does not read his lessons. We are tired of trying to teach him.
 

ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹੈ ਕਰ ਤਾਲ ਬਜਾਵੈ ਚਟੀਆ ਸਭੈ ਬਿਗਾਰੇ ॥੧॥

ਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਗਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਹੋਰ ਸਾਰੇ ਵਿੱਦਿਆਰਥੀ ਭੀ ਉਸ ਨੇ ਵਿਗਾੜ ਦਿੱਤੇ ਹਨ ।੧।
He chants the Lord's Name, clapping his hands to keep the beat; he has spoiled all the other students. ||1||
 

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਜਪਿਬੋ ਕਰੈ ॥
(ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ) ਹਰ ਵੇਲੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਦਾ ਹੈ,
He chants the Lord's Name,
 

ਹਿਰਦੈ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਕੋ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਧਰੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਆਪਣੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਧਾਰਨ ਕਰੀ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।
and he has enshrined meditative remembrance of the Lord within his heart.""||1||Pause||
 

ਬਸੁਧਾ ਬਸਿ ਕੀਨੀ ਸਭ ਰਾਜੇ ਬਿਨਤੀ ਕਰੈ ਪਟਰਾਨੀ ॥
(ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਦੀ ਮਾਂ) ਵੱਡੀ ਰਾਣੀ (ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਅੱਗੇ) ਤਰਲੇ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ (ਤੇ ਸਮਝਾਉਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਤੇਰੇ ਪਿਤਾ) ਰਾਜੇ ਨੇ ਸਾਰੀ ਧਰਤੀ ਆਪਣੇ ਵੱਸ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ (ਉਸ ਦਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਨਾ ਮੋੜ),
"Your father the king has conquered the whole world", said his mother the queen.
 

ਪੂਤੁ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦੁ ਕਹਿਆ ਨਹੀ ਮਾਨੈ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਉ ਅਉਰੈ ਠਾਨੀ ॥੨॥
ਪਰ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ (ਮਾਂ ਦਾ) ਆਖਿਆ ਮੰਨਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ, ਉਸ ਨੇ ਤਾਂ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਰ ਗੱਲ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਪੱਕੀ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ।੨।
"O Prahlad my son, you do not obey him, so he has decided to deal with you in another way."||2||
 

ਦੁਸਟ ਸਭਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਮੰਤਰ ਉਪਾਇਆ ਕਰਸਹ ਅਉਧ ਘਨੇਰੀ ॥
ਦੁਸ਼ਟਾਂ ਦੀ ਜੁੰਡੀ ਨੇ ਰਲ ਕੇ ਸਲਾਹ ਕਰ ਲਈ—(ਜੇ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਨਹੀਂ ਮੰਨਦਾ ਤਾਂ) ਅਸੀ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਮਾਰ ਮੁਕਾਵਾਂਗੇ; ਪਰ ਜਗਤ ਦੇ ਮਾਲਕ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਆਪਣੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ ਸੁਭਾਉ ਹੀ ਬਦਲਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ,
The council of villians met and resolved to send Prahlaad into the life hereafter.
 

ਗਿਰਿ ਤਰ ਜਲੁ ਜੁਆਲਾ ਭੈ ਰਾਖਿਓ ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਫੇਰੀ ॥੩॥
(ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਨੂੰ) ਪਹਾੜ, ਰੁੱਖ, ਪਾਣੀ, ਅੱਗ (ਇਹਨਾਂ ਸਭਨਾਂ ਦੇ) ਡਰ ਤੋਂ ਬਚਾ ਲਿਆ ।੩।
Prahlaad was thrown off a mountain, into the water, and into a fire, but the Sovereign Lord God saved him, by changing the laws of nature. ||3||
 

ਕਾਢਿ ਖੜਗੁ ਕਾਲੁ ਭੈ ਕੋਪਿਓ ਮੋਹਿ ਬਤਾਉ ਜੁ ਤੁਹਿ ਰਾਖੈ ॥
(ਹੁਣ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ) ਡਰਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ (ਪਰ ਬਾਹਰੋਂ) ਕੋ੍ਰਧਵਾਨ ਹੋ ਕੇ, ਮੌਤ-ਰੂਪ ਤਲਵਾਰ ਕੱਢ ਕੇ (ਬੋਲਿਆ—) 
Harnaakhash thundered with rage and threatened to kill Prahlaad. ""Tell me, who can save you?""
 

ਪੀਤ ਪੀਤਾਂਬਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਧਣੀ ਥੰਭ ਮਾਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਖੈ ॥੪॥
ਮੈਨੂੰ ਦੱਸ ਜਿਹੜਾ ਤੈਨੂੰ (ਇਸ ਤਲਵਾਰ ਤੋਂ) ਬਚਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ; (ਅੱਗੋਂ) ਜਗਤ ਦਾ ਮਾਲਕ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਥੰਮ੍ਹ ਵਿਚ ਬੋਲਦਾ ਹੈ ।੪।
Prahlaad answered, ""The Lord, the Master of the three worlds, is contained even in this pillar to which I am tied.""||4||
 

ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਨਖਹ ਬਿਦਾਰਿਓ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਕੀਏ ਸਨਾਥਾ ॥
ਜਿਸ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਹਰਨਾਖ਼ਸ਼ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੁੰਆਂ ਨਾਲ ਚੀਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ, ਦੇਵਤਿਆਂ ਤੇ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਢਾਰਸ ਦਿੱਤੀ,
The Lord who tore Harnaakhash apart with His nails proclaimed Himself the Lord of gods and men.
 

ਕਹਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਹਮ ਨਰਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵਹ ਰਾਮੁ ਅਭੈ ਪਦ ਦਾਤਾ ॥੫॥੩॥੯॥
ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ— ਮੈਂ ਭੀ ਉਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਮਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ; ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਹੀ ਨਿਰਭੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਦਰਜਾ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ ।੫।੩।੯।
Says Naam Dayv, I meditate on the Lord, the Man-lion, the Giver of fearless dignity. ||5||3||9||
SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI - 1165 RAAG BHAIRAO BHAGAT NAAM DEV JI

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On 2/26/2019 at 6:28 PM, Akalifauj said:

Casting doubt on Bhagat Prahlad saver.  Only ignorant people do it.

 

The only profoundly  ignorant, are  indeed those,  who mistakenly  or ignorantly take the avtars/incarnations  of Vishnu Jee as those of Waheguru Akal Purukh. 

Our Guru Sahiban, are the real manifestations of Waheguru Akal Purukh. 

Waheguru has nothing to do  with the mayavee Lord/Master of the 3 worlds, as seen in the verses above.

He is the highest, and if you or anybody can not see the differences of the mayavee incarnations and the ones of our beloved Guru Sahiban, just look at their lives and their teachings.

What to say of that of one  Man Lion incarntion of Vishnu, there  can be millions, or billions, of all the different incarnations of trinties and gods, and even  all united on one side, but none are match  to anyone of Guru Sahiban or  Waheguru.

People induced by manmat and  maya, fail  to recognize Waheguru as the Highest, who has nothing to do with any Krishna, Sree Ram, Buddha, Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu, Hanuman, etc, devis, devtays.

Many as said, mistakenly take these incarnations as ultimate God, but thanks to First Patshahee in the very begining of Sree Guru Granth Sahib, and with His Kirpa, if anybody reads what the Mool mantar says, one can only then see the differences between Waheguru and the mayavee incarnations displaying powers, not otherwise.

Sat Sree Akal.

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On 2/26/2019 at 5:19 PM, Amit12 said:

Lol

 

SGGS, Ang 360:

Aasaa, First Mehl: 

Having attacked Khuraasaan, Baabar terrified Hindustan. 
 
The Creator Himself does not take the blame, but has sent the Mogal as the messenger of death. 
 
There was so much slaughter that the people screamed. Didn't You feel compassion, Lord? ||1|| 
 
O Creator Lord, You are the Master of all. 
 
If some powerful man strikes out against another man, then no one feels any grief in their mind. ||1||Pause|| 
 
But if a powerful tiger attacks a flock of sheep and kills them, then its master must answer for it. 
 
This priceless country has been laid waste and defiled by dogs, and no one pays any attention to the dead. 
 
You Yourself unite, and You Yourself separate; I gaze upon Your Glorious Greatness. ||2|| 
 
One may give himself a great name, and revel in the pleasures of the mind, 
 
but in the Eyes of the Lord and Master, he is just a worm, for all the corn that he eats. 
 
Only one who dies to his ego while yet alive, obtains the blessings, O Nanak, by chanting the Lord's Name. ||3||5||39|| 
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On 2/25/2019 at 11:48 PM, harsharan000 said:


Why did  Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj had to suffer horrible attrocities at the hands of the most heartless  and bloody foolish people? Why did He not use His powers to avoid them and punish them?

 

Why did  Ninth Patshahee, passed away as He did, was He not Akal Purukh Himself, why did he not save Himself?

 

Why save some as you mention above, and not His human incarnations as Guru Sahiban?  Why that discrimination?

 

The answer is, are you sure it was  Akal Purukh who reverted the  riverflow, or protected Prahlad and not any other incarnation of the hindu trinity?

 

Or when you  say, he saved Bhagat Kabir from the elephants? Are you sure, it was Kabir Jee and not  the Buddha who was saved from the mad elephant?

 

It could very well be Vishnu Jee,  who that did for his devotees and not Wahiguru Himself.

 

Bahamvadee has deeply polluted our sense of perceiving sikhee, so we take such things as powers displyed by Wahiguru, when that is not the case.

 

You may find similarities among all the several incarnations of Vishnu Jee, but the path, the teachings, sikhshaa, given to us sikhs by Guru  Sahiban, has no comparison  in any way to other faiths and divinities.

 

Sikhee is the simplest path in treading, yet the highest in goals.

 

For we have no trinities nor any  incarnations as our goals, nor their realms, but, He Wahiguru Akal Purukh Himself, that also by His apaar grace.

 

Other deties display  miraculous powers , weapons, fly in chariots, change their outer appearances, etc ... lay down on a thousand faced snake in a ocean of milk, have a wife massaging his feet and so on, with four arms, their sons, and their spouses, in a summary, a big whole number of these spiritual entities working in their respective realms.

 

Guru's were resigned to God's will.  

As for who saved Kabir and Prahlad, well these examples are from SGGS.  So you are disputing SGGS?

 

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10 hours ago, Guest guest said:

 

SGGS, Ang 360:

Aasaa, First Mehl: 

Having attacked Khuraasaan, Baabar terrified Hindustan. 
 
The Creator Himself does not take the blame, but has sent the Mogal as the messenger of death. 
 
There was so much slaughter that the people screamed. Didn't You feel compassion, Lord? ||1|| 
 
O Creator Lord, You are the Master of all. 
 
If some powerful man strikes out against another man, then no one feels any grief in their mind. ||1||Pause|| 
 
But if a powerful tiger attacks a flock of sheep and kills them, then its master must answer for it. 
 
This priceless country has been laid waste and defiled by dogs, and no one pays any attention to the dead. 
 
You Yourself unite, and You Yourself separate; I gaze upon Your Glorious Greatness. ||2|| 
 
One may give himself a great name, and revel in the pleasures of the mind, 
 
but in the Eyes of the Lord and Master, he is just a worm, for all the corn that he eats. 
 
Only one who dies to his ego while yet alive, obtains the blessings, O Nanak, by chanting the Lord's Name. ||3||5||39|| 

Thanks for sharing, i need to study this verse, cuz if we read this verse as per the given translation then it contradicts many other verses of Bani. 

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11 hours ago, Guest guest said:

Guru's were resigned to God's will.  

As for who saved Kabir and Prahlad, well these examples are from SGGS.  

So you are disputing SGGS?

 

First of all Guest Jee,

with your answers,  you have drifted away from the title of this present thread of the OP, which is about :

CAN GURU MAKE US DO SOMETHING THAT WE DIDNT INTENDED TO ?

While you have taken it into different direction as per what the Lord can do for us ? Like giving protection to a bhagat, or wash our sins, etc....

So you see, as far as possible we should stick to the topic to avoid any misunderstandings or end mixing up things which have little or nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

Secondly, I am not disputing SGGS,  I am just clearing the misinterpretations by some, while quoting the  Bani.

 

For example, from the post  above  of brother Akali Fauj  in the following 4 verses, let us try to see what it says, especially the one in black:

 

ਗਿਰਿ ਤਰ ਜਲੁ ਜੁਆਲਾ ਭੈ ਰਾਖਿਓ ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਫੇਰੀ ॥੩॥
(ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਨੂੰ) ਪਹਾੜ, ਰੁੱਖ, ਪਾਣੀ, ਅੱਗ (ਇਹਨਾਂ ਸਭਨਾਂ ਦੇ) ਡਰ ਤੋਂ ਬਚਾ ਲਿਆ ।੩।
Prahlaad was thrown off a mountain, into the water, and into a fire, but the Sovereign Lord God saved him, by changing the laws of nature. ||3||
 

ਕਾਢਿ ਖੜਗੁ ਕਾਲੁ ਭੈ ਕੋਪਿਓ ਮੋਹਿ ਬਤਾਉ ਜੁ ਤੁਹਿ ਰਾਖੈ ॥
(ਹੁਣ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ) ਡਰਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ (ਪਰ ਬਾਹਰੋਂ) ਕੋ੍ਰਧਵਾਨ ਹੋ ਕੇ, ਮੌਤ-ਰੂਪ ਤਲਵਾਰ ਕੱਢ ਕੇ (ਬੋਲਿਆ—) 
Harnaakhash thundered with rage and threatened to kill Prahlaad. ""Tell me, who can save you?""
 

*ਪੀਤ ਪੀਤਾਂਬਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਧਣੀ ਥੰਭ ਮਾਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਖੈ ॥੪॥
ਮੈਨੂੰ ਦੱਸ ਜਿਹੜਾ ਤੈਨੂੰ (ਇਸ ਤਲਵਾਰ ਤੋਂ) ਬਚਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ; (ਅੱਗੋਂ) ਜਗਤ ਦਾ ਮਾਲਕ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਥੰਮ੍ਹ ਵਿਚ ਬੋਲਦਾ ਹੈ ।੪।
Prahlaad answered, ""The Lord, the Master of the three worlds, is contained even in this pillar to which I am tied.""||4||
 

ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਨਖਹ ਬਿਦਾਰਿਓ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਕੀਏ ਸਨਾਥਾ ॥
ਜਿਸ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ ਹਰਨਾਖ਼ਸ਼ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੁੰਆਂ ਨਾਲ ਚੀਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ, ਦੇਵਤਿਆਂ ਤੇ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਢਾਰਸ ਦਿੱਤੀ,
The Lord who tore Harnaakhash apart with His nails proclaimed Himself the Lord of gods and men.

*There where Prahlad says : the Lord, the master of the 3 worlds is going to save him ....

Have we ever asked  to ourselves  about what are those 3 worlds which he refers to? 

Well, these 3 worlds are 3 regions, planes, or levels of consciousness within the realms of Maya and Brahm.

These 3 planes are: the physical or material plane, the astral plane, and the causal plane. Beyond these are the planes of pure spirituality, out of the reach of Maya, Brahm and Kal,  which is why Waheguru is also known as  Paree Puran Parbrabhm Parmatma., for He is beyiond the reach of maya.....

And to this one  eternal Truth, Lord, God, Creator, I always mention, to whom we must give our love  and devotion, for He, as the Bani says: Ekas bin sabh dandh hae.

Apart from this one Waheguru, every other thing, entities...are nothing but: maya, brahm, temporary, false ... 

So brother Guest Jee, do you still think I am disputing SGGS Jee?

The example of Prahlad, is just a katha, an inspiration for us by Guru Jee to start understanding the higher truths of Akal Purukh.

Just as children play with battery operated police cars, aeroplanes or helicopters, etc, which are not real as such, but they play a role in preparing us for the real life once grown as adults.

Going back to your example of Prahlad, let us see some more facts about it: 

 

 

Vishnu-and-Parhlad.jpg?resize=720%2C511&ssl=1

 

In the Hindu dharma, there is story whree the father(Harnakash) is set up to destroy his own son (Prahlad) for being a devotee of Lord Vishnu.

But such was his belief and faith in Vishnu, that in spite of the outrageous boons and powers granted to Harnakash,  that Sree Vishnu Jee took the avatar  of Narashima  to save him abnd destry his father.

And as we all know, Sree Vishnu Jee is one of the trinity gods, which if we ponder a little bit, has nothing to do with the real True Lord God : Ik Oankar  Satnam as mentioned by Guru Sahiban, and it is to this very Truth Guru Jee in each ang, tells us to give our faith and love only, none else.

We as sikhs, should never ever get impresssed by the forms and powers of any entities or trinities, gods, devtays, and take them as equal to the one Waheguru Akal Purukh.

He alone, He is.

Stay blessed.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

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