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Interesting 'prophesy' from Chaupa Singh rehat

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3 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Bhai Chaupa Singh wasn't a fan of caste mingling, was he? 

I think a few of the so-called 'higher-caste' apnay struggled with that in the past, and it shows in their extant writing. Hell, some apnay still struggle with that today. lol

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17 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think a few of the so-called 'higher-caste' apnay struggled with that in the past, and it shows in their extant writing. Hell, some apnay still struggle with that today. lol

So he's attributing the commands he writes in his eponymous decree to Guru Gobind Singh. Why would Guru Sahib be at pains to preserve the "purity" and honour of the Brahman? 

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2 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

So he's attributing the commands he writes in his eponymous decree to Guru Gobind Singh. Why would Guru Sahib be at pains to preserve the "purity" and honour of the Brahman? 

I know, it's highly likely that some people saw the growing strength of the (and let's be frank about this) mostly kamini backgrounded Khalsa, and the way this was restratifying society around them and removing their privilege as threatening. This might be a reaction to that?

That Bhangu quote I posted earlier makes interesting reading in relation to this when Bhangu suggests that the Singhs were from poor backgrounds and had limited vision regarding the extent of their rule as a consequence (preferring to rule areas they were familiar with as opposed to pushing outwards). 

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9 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I know, it's highly likely that some people saw the growing strength of the (and let's be frank about this) mostly kamini backgrounded Khalsa, and the way this was restratifying society around them and removing their privilege as threatening. This might be a reaction to that?

That Bhangu quote I posted earlier makes interesting reading in relation to this when Bhangu suggests that the Singhs were from poor backgrounds and had limited vision regarding the extent of their rule as a consequence (preferring to rule areas they were familiar with as opposed to pushing outwards). 

Yes, that was amusing. Guru Sahib was practically serving it up on a plate for his Singhs, and they failed to dream big. "Okay, if you're sure. Last chance..." 😀

Generally, re: Bhai Chaupa Singh. What's the score? Most of his writings seem incredibly at odds with Gurbani and the general ethos of what we've come to know as the ideas stated by Sikh personalities.

Edited by MisterrSingh

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9 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

 

Generally, re: Bhai Chaupa Singh. What's the score? Most of his writings seem incredibly at odds with Gurbani and the general ethos of what we've come to know as the ideas stated by Sikh personalities.

I'm not sure yet. This seems to be a composite document. Who is this Devi Das that is referring to themselves in the text? We have to remember all writings of the past have their biases. It's on us to filter out and extract what is useful - not as some know-it-all individual, but as a corporate body. 

Problem is that Singh Sabha done such a neat job of trying to tidy everything up, people get majorly confused when they encounter older texts like these.

I hope you've noticed that pre-annexation Sikh texts are super awesome and interesting though. 

I think some people like their 'knowledge' given to them on a plate, simplified with no problems. Real life learning (sadly for them) doesn't work like that. We all have to be scholars - not some receptacle constantly wanting someone else to fill them up. lol

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18 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I hope you've noticed that pre-annexation Sikh texts are super awesome and interesting though. 

Yes, there's a rustic romanticism about them that seems like quite a departure from the neatly delineated and boxed-in norms of modern times. 

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4 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Yes, there's a rustic romanticism about them that seems like quite a departure from the neatly delineated and boxed-in norms of modern times. 

That's the difference between true indigenous Sikh historiography and the whitewashing British style which was adopted whilst under colonialism. This latter style struggles with contradictions and honesty, and our literary culture being influenced by this was a backwards thing in my opinion. 

We've all been influenced by them through reading in English, but when we start to hit the original Sikh texts (which have only just started to be translated honestly) we realise we have to 'unlearn' a lot of things we've been led to believe are sacrosanct. 

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