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Back to Nanakshahi calendar?


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1 hour ago, FreshMind13 said:

Purewal never even touched Gregorian or Julian, he only converted between Bikrami calendar systems.

For a man that wants the entire Panth to follow him, I have never seen this man reveal his face in a large forum. If he wants the entire Panth follow his whims, he should have gone out into the Panth to build consensus and allow for people to criticize his "magnum opus".

It is simply not right for him to go about what he did in the way he did it. He comes up with his desired calendar, goes through a secretive process to impose something on the Panth without the traditional sarab-samati (consensus), and then he wants to complain that people don't like it?

If that's the way he wants to play it, he shouldn't be surprised at all if people attack him.

Meanwhile, the only defense left for the vast majority of Purewal calendar supporters is to call supporters of the existing calendar "Brahmanists".

Purewal should be man enough to do his own defense instead of leaving up to his fans (who probably don't know much about calendars).

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5 minutes ago, BhForce said:

For a man that wants the entire Panth to follow him, I have never seen this man reveal his face in a large forum. If he wants the entire Panth follow his whims, he should have gone out into the Panth to build consensus and allow for people to criticize his "magnum opus".

It is simply not right for him to go about what he did in the way he did it. He comes up with his desired calendar, goes through a secretive process to impose something on the Panth without the traditional sarab-samati (consensus), and then he wants to complain that people don't like it?

He was at various meetings at Sri Akal Takht Sahib where he presented his ideas there. Many scholars and Sants where there. Maybe SGPC should make transcripts of the meetings available.

5 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Meanwhile, the only defense left for the vast majority of Purewal calendar supporters is to call supporters of the existing calendar "Brahmanists".

Purewal should be man enough to do his own defense instead of leaving up to his fans (who probably don't know much about calendars).

You can go to Purewal's website and read his papers there.

Missionaries don't do the calendar any justice, they support it because of their agendas, not because of the science behind it. Ask any of them what are calculations behind Nanakshahi are and they will fall silent (same can be said for Bikrami supporters, some don't even know its a luni-solor calendar).

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1 minute ago, FreshMind13 said:

You can go to Purewal's website and read his papers there.

 

1 minute ago, FreshMind13 said:

He was at various meetings at Sri Akal Takht Sahib where he presented his ideas there.

I believe that this is inadequate to the situation. For a change that would (ideally) be in place for tens of thousands of years (even 100,000), I simply do not see what the rush was to impose the Purewal calendar in a few years (not that that those years were spent in 24x7 meetings, rather just a few meetings here and there).

The entire rushed process set up the possibility (and now reality) for the pushback. Also, the fact is that Purewal is man like any other, and he suffers from kam, krodh, lobh moh, hankar like the rest of us. It's not unreasonable to think that his desire to have his calendar approved in the timeline of years and not decades was based on his personal ego to be proclaimed through the ages as the creator of the Sikh calendar, just like Pope Gregory is for the Western calendar.

I want to see his face, hear his voice, and listen to him engaging in discussion one-on-one with Col. Nishan and others and to answer their points directly, and not buried within a sentence or two of 10s of pages of PDFs on his website.

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2 hours ago, BhForce said:

I believe that this is inadequate to the situation. For a change that would (ideally) be in place for tens of thousands of years (even 100,000), I simply do not see what the rush was to impose the Purewal calendar in a few years (not that that those years were spent in 24x7 meetings, rather just a few meetings here and there).

The entire rushed process set up the possibility (and now reality) for the pushback. Also, the fact is that Purewal is man like any other, and he suffers from kam, krodh, lobh moh, hankar like the rest of us. It's not unreasonable to think that his desire to have his calendar approved in the timeline of years and not decades was based on his personal ego to be proclaimed through the ages as the creator of the Sikh calendar, just like Pope Gregory is for the Western calendar.

I want to see his face, hear his voice, and listen to him engaging in discussion one-on-one with Col. Nishan and others and to answer their points directly, and not buried within a sentence or two of 10s of pages of PDFs on his website.

Yea, first we should have at least Audio Tapes or transcripts from Sri Akal Takht Sahib released. Purewal didn't get to implement his calendar fully though, as Baba Kashmira Singh and others wanted to keep three dates (Parkash Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Holla, and Bandi Shhor/Diwali) as Lunar Dates. There was definitely some criticism of Purewal.

I personally don't agree with him on Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Parkash being on 1 Vaisakh, I still believe its was on Katak Pooranmashi. But this is a issue for historians, not me. 

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2 minutes ago, FreshMind13 said:

But this is a issue for historians, not me. 

Well, there's an additional consideration: That is that from his perspective, all that matters is getting his name into the pages of Sikh history. What he did not consider is what the wider Panth needs at this time and what benefit it provides at what cost.

That should have been something the Jathedars were supposed to consider, but I believe they did not. I believe the benefits are meager and the cost has been high (division in the Panth).

I fail to see why it was so important to ram through Purewal's calendar when we already faced with so many divisions (long/short Rehras, Amrit banis, Ragmala, Dasam Granth Sahib, nature of Naam, etc.). Why is it that we needed yet another division?

Leaving aside all that Purewal may claim as the reason for his calendar, I want to know from him: What was the emergency?

It's hard to see what other emergency there was than getting his calendar passed in his lifetime so that people could praise him during his funeral as "The Father of the Nanakshahi Calendar".

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9 minutes ago, FreshMind13 said:

I personally don't agree with him on Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Parkash being on 1 Vaisakh, I still believe its was on Katak Pooranmashi.

So, not satisfied with starting up one fight in the Panth (regarding calendars), he wanted/wants to start up another: the birthday of Guru Nanak Dev ji.

Maybe he's the greatest astronomer in the world (he's not, I believe he's an engineer, no?). But he doesn't have a lick of common sense or sense of priorities for this Panth.

So all of our problems (Sikhs becoming patit, violent attacks on Sikhs, misrepresentation, drug and alcohol use, Christian targeting of us, police torture,  1984 issues, etc.) that's all going to be magically solved if we start celebrating Guru Nanak Dev ji's birthday in April?

That's why I want him to come into the public to answer questions from the Panth, and not hide behind a bunch of technical PDFs.

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7 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Well, there's an additional consideration: That is that from his perspective, all that matters is getting his name into the pages of Sikh history. What he did not consider is what the wider Panth needs at this time and what benefit it provides at what cost.

That should have been something the Jathedars were supposed to consider, but I believe they did not. I believe the benefits are meager and the cost has been high (division in the Panth).

I fail to see why it was so important to ram through Purewal's calendar when we already faced with so many divisions (long/short Rehras, Amrit banis, Ragmala, Dasam Granth Sahib, nature of Naam, etc.). Why is it that we needed yet another division?

Leaving aside all that Purewal may claim as the reason for his calendar, I want to know from him: What was the emergency?

It's hard to see what other emergency there was than getting his calendar passed in his lifetime so that people could praise him during his funeral as "The Father of the Nanakshahi Calendar".

I won't deny maybe he had ego, but that is more of a motive question. I mentioned earlier that politics got in the way of things, I try to stay focused on the science and technicalities.

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Just now, FreshMind13 said:

I won't deny maybe he had ego, but that is more of a motive question. I mentioned earlier that politics got in the way of things, I try to stay focused on the science and technicalities (I'm a nerd, lol).

That's fine (that you're focused on technicalities).

Re: Purewal's ego. I didn't necessarily claim that, but I said it's hard to come to any other conclusion than that was the reason for the rush. If it wasn't then let him state so live.

Based merely on technicalities, he could have submitted his report and that would be that. The rush was to get his name in the history books, as far as I can see.

Can anyone else tell me what the rush was?

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20 minutes ago, BhForce said:

That's fine (that you're focused on technicalities).

Re: Purewal's ego. I didn't necessarily claim that, but I said it's hard to come to any other conclusion than that was the reason for the rush. If it wasn't then let him state so live.

Based merely on technicalities, he could have submitted his report and that would be that. The rush was to get his name in the history books, as far as I can see.

Can anyone else tell me what the rush was?

The rush was from Gurcharan Singh Tohra who asked Purewal to make the calendar after seeing is work on converting Bikrami dates I believe.

Maybe someone else can elaborate more.

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