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Hi

I am a new user. Excuse me that i am not sure i have got the tags or forum correct!

I am very interested in your religion. I myself am a Christian. I believe open dialogue is healthy and indeed necessary between cultures. I would like to ask questions and am looking for what is written in your Holy Book. As i believe in all that is in my Bible and the teachings of Christ. 

A big subject is forgiveness. When accomplished it brings great peace. But is very hard to do! We all have pride and ego. 

Jesus teaches us Christians that if we ask forgiveness from our Heavenly Father, we ourselves must forgive all those who hurt us. This is fair but tough. He teaches us to love our enemies. To me that is extremely hard. But to love only those who love us is surely easy? He teaches that if someone slaps us, offer them the other cheek also. That we must not offer our prayers to God if we have enmity with anyone. So our Jesus preached love and peace. He said revenge is not the way. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. 

These are hard lessons. But a christian who cannot forgive cannot be forgiven by God. The closed heart is not able to receive love. 

My first hand experience is that my Dad was cruel and violent. He ruined my childhood and beat us all regularly especially my dear mother. When we grew up we all left. He remained alone until he got dementia and is now in a nursing home. I hated him so much. All the family does. I suffered great depression due to how my father treated us. 

But a few years ago i became a Christian and decided to forgive him. So i went to see him. When i saw the old sick man that he is now, i cried so much and forgave everything. I was able to love him at last through letting go of the hate. Now i visit regularly and i love my dad and he tells me he loves me. He is close to death and by the love of Jesus Christ i am at peace. All the years of pain have gone.

So, where does the Sikh religion stand on forgiveness? I know you are a proud strong people. But there is a lot of war and fighting in your history. What did your Gurus teach and what do you personally believe? 

I want only truth and reasoned discussion please. I am genuinely interested in comparing christianity wirh Sikhi. 

Thankyou. 

 

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6 hours ago, Christiangirl52 said:

Hi

Hi, and welcome, Christian girl!

6 hours ago, Christiangirl52 said:

I want only truth and reasoned discussion please

OK, that is reasonable.

6 hours ago, Christiangirl52 said:

I am genuinely interested in comparing christianity wirh Sikhi. 

In order to proceed, could you please state whether your goal is merely to understand the people who live around you? For example, if I lived in an area with a lot of Jews (say New York City), I might be interested in learning about their religion.

But I have no interest in converting them. So I would have no ulterior motive.

Now the question is: Do you have any such motive? I.e., is your motivation for learning about Sikhs to learn about (from your perspective) possible shortcomings compared to Christianity in order to convert Sikhs to Christianity?

I'm sorry I have to ask, but the fact is that the vast majority of Christians think that it is their obligation to convert everyone on Earth to Christianity.

Once we have that out of the way, we can proceed to your question, which I will answer.

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I am not here to convert anyone. I am interested in Sikh perpectives as i do have friends of different religions including some Sikhs and even atheists. I like discussion and believe it is really good to understand other people snd how they live. 

I myself am a quiet Christian. I was never converted by anyone. I was atheist. Then someone i loved in my family was terminally ill and i realised how helpless we are as humans and how very important the eternal destiny of our soul is. I live near a church i had always ignored but now i sought God there. As i began attending i felt the Holy Spirit warming and comforting me. So began my journey of faith and i became baptised as a follower of Christ. I know now that seeking God is a life long journey to finding peace and light. 

I have always been fascinated at the charming nature of Sikhs too. Yet i know they also have such a history of war. Christians too have a lot of wars in their history.  I am seeking how the love that your gurus and our Messiah preached is understood on a personal level and on the cultural levels. So i question both religions. 

I think faith is one thing, religion another.

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There is only one of us GOD in many manifestations. Sikh faith is to believe in that concept until one is enlightened via Naam Simran ( repetition of Guru Mantar). So who forgives who is essentially nothing but a ego boost which a Sikh is trying to get rid of (ego)

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5 hours ago, Christiangirl52 said:

I am not here to convert anyone.

OK, that confirms my suspicions. Welcome.

I'll now proceed to posting about Sikh thought on forgiveness.

5 hours ago, Christiangirl52 said:

As i began attending i felt the Holy Spirit warming and comforting me. So began my journey of faith and i became baptised as a follower of Christ.

Very interesting story.

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5 hours ago, Christiangirl52 said:

I have always been fascinated at the charming nature of Sikhs too. Yet i know they also have such a history of war. Christians too have a lot of wars in their history. 

Great topic. Go ahead and create another thread on the topic of "Sikhism, Christianity and war" to discuss that issue.

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19 hours ago, Christiangirl52 said:

So, where does the Sikh religion stand on forgiveness?

Some quotes regarding the topic of forgiveness and seeing the good in others.

1.

ਕਬੀਰ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਹਮ ਬੁਰੇ ਹਮ ਤਜਿ ਭਲੋ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥

Kabeer, I am the worst of all. Everyone else is good.
ਜਿਨਿ ਐਸਾ ਕਰਿ ਬੂਝਿਆ ਮੀਤੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਸੋਇ ॥੭॥

Whoever understands this is a friend of mine. ||7||

p647

 

2.

ਮੰਦਾ ਜਾਣੈ ਆਪ ਕਉ ਅਵਰੁ ਭਲਾ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥੪॥੭॥

He sees himself as bad, and all the rest of the world as good. ||4||7|| p843

(By Guru Nanak ji)

 

3.

ਹਮ ਨਹੀ ਚੰਗੇ ਬੁਰਾ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥

I am not good; no one is bad.
ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾਰੇ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੧॥੨॥

Prays Nanak, He alone saves us! ||4||1||2|| p728

(By Guru Nanak ji)

 

4.

ਅਸੀ ਖਤੇ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਕਮਾਵਦੇ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ॥

I make so many mistakes, there is no end or limit to them.


ਹਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਬਖਸਿ ਲੈਹੁ ਹਉ ਪਾਪੀ ਵਡ ਗੁਨਹਗਾਰੁ ॥

O Lord, please be merciful and forgive me; I am a sinner, a great offender.

ਸਲੋਕ ਵਾਰਾਂ ਤੇ ਵਧੀਕ (ਮਃ ੩) (੨੯):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੪੧੬ ਪੰ. ੭ 
Guru Amar Das p1416

 

5. 

ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਲੇਖੈ ਵਾਰ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਤੂੰ ਬਖਸਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥

O Dear Lord, if You made an account of my mistakes, my turn to be forgiven would not even come. Please forgive me, and unite me with Yourself.


ਗੁਰ ਤੁਠੈ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਮੇਲਿਆ ਸਭ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਕਟਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥

The Guru, in His Pleasure, has united me with the Lord God; He has cut away all my sinful mistakes.


ਜਿਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਜੈਕਾਰੁ ॥੨੯॥

Servant Nanak celebrates the victory of those who meditate on the Name of the Lord,  ||29||

ਸਲੋਕ ਵਾਰਾਂ ਤੇ ਵਧੀਕ (ਮਃ ੩) (੨੯):੫ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੪੧੬ ਪੰ. ੯ 
Guru Amar Das (3rd Guru) p1416

 

6. 

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਜੋ ਤੈ ਮਾਰਨਿ ਮੁਕੀਆਂ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਨ ਮਾਰੇ ਘੁੰਮਿ ॥

Fareed, do not turn around and strike those who strike you with their fists.


ਆਪਨੜੈ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਪੈਰ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਦੇ ਚੁੰਮਿ ॥੭॥

Kiss their feet, and return to your own home. ||7||

ਸਲੋਕ ਫਰੀਦ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਫਰੀਦ) ੭:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੮ ਪੰ. ੫ 
Sheikh Farid p1378

 

7.

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਜੇ ਤੂ ਅਕਲਿ ਲਤੀਫੁ ਕਾਲੇ ਲਿਖੁ ਨ ਲੇਖ ॥

Fareed, if you have a keen understanding, then do not write a list of the black deeds of anyone else.

ਆਪਨੜੇ ਗਿਰੀਵਾਨ ਮਹਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਨੀਬ਼ਵਾਂ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖੁ ॥੬॥

Look underneath your own collar instead. ||6||

Sheikh Farid p1378

 

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1 minute ago, Christiangirl52 said:

I too accept daily,confess and ask God for forgiveness that i am a wretched sinner. We as christians believe that if we repent, God forgives. So like you, humble prayer is vital. 

That's so good to hear.

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Hi

So what do you think of our Lord's Prayer where if we are to forgive, we also must forgive? Does a Sikh forgive others who hurt him? 

Personally i find this difficult. Many people even in my own family continue to hurt me. Yet i must not think of revenge. I must do what God does for me. It is a huge lesson in humility. It is actually a strength of character not weakness. I always think i can forgive someone's behaviour IF they are sorry! I have a lot to learn. 

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1 minute ago, Christiangirl52 said:

Hi

So what do you think of our Lord's Prayer where if we are to forgive, we also must forgive? Does a Sikh forgive others who hurt him? 

Hello Sister.

Yes, well, if you read the quotes I gave above, it implies that a Sikh should forgive.

E.g., if (as written in Gurbani), I am bad and others are good, there's no reason that I should continue to feel hatred towards them. 

The lines above encourage Sikhs to kiss the feet of those that hit them (or turn the other cheek in Biblical language).

3 minutes ago, Christiangirl52 said:

Personally i find this difficult. Many people even in my own family continue to hurt me.

Yeah, it's hard.

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As Christians Sikhs we don’t believe in the Original Sin that we are born sinners. Somehow we have inherited Adam and Eve sin and have to be always feeling guilty and redeemed from it through.......Our belief is that we are born blessed. It’s a play of consciousness of physical and spiritual world. Separation and Unity cycle it’s not supposed be a burden but a blessing. Separation is not our true nature so it feels a constant struggle for feeling normal but never does.

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