Kali on Guru Hargobind sahibs sword

[dallysingh101]

1 hour ago, BhForce said:

So context is necessary. And words can have different meanings in different contexts.

Absolutely. I think context in each usage of the word is the key here. 

My belief is that Sikhi is a quite an advanced, sophisticated thing (in terms of conceptualisations), that does require higher cognitive thinking to try and grasp. Problem with Singh Sabha thinking (in my opinion) was that they tried to simplify it (some might call it 'dumbing down') for their main ground level supporters who were largely illiterate or semi-illiterate. This is understandable in that they were trying to impart their understanding which (I don't care I'm going to say it!) was heavily influenced by British thinking of that time, to people who had very fluid understandings of the universe around them that meshed Sikhi with their own tribal, regional practices and worldview. So I get what they were trying to do but I feel important things were lost in this process. 

This explains a lot about our current state in my opinion. 

I just feel that imposing western, systematic, reductionalist models on Sikhi (which created 'Sikhism'), skews things in no small way. 

[puzzled]

Interesting, I think because the word "Hindu" has many definitions it just makes thing complicated. Like mentioned above Hindu is a culture and a religion. The Muslim invaders used to refer to Indians as "Hindus" and India was called "Hindustan"     i think with the later Muslim invaders the the word Hindu became synonyms with kafir, non Muslims of south Asia regardless of religion. In jahangirs memoirs he refers to Guru Arjan dev ji as a hindu, even though janhangir was aware of guru ji being the head of a new religion.   

Even among Hindus at one point i think only the Bahamans and Kshatriya were considered Hindus,  I guess that was when hindus themselves started identifying with the word.

Then later during the British rule the Hindu started being used for people of the Hindu faith as we know it today.  haha you can basically say Hinduism, as the religion, was put together and created by the British lol    because before that they were not under one umbrella as a religion. 

the word has many meanings and some crafty sly hindus who have an agenda use this flexibility of the term to their advantage, thats where it starts becoming a problem for us. 

[puzzled]

Flags from the Sikh Raj

Another flag with surya the sun deity

 

[puzzled]

Durga mural in Gurdwara in Nurungabad built by Baba Bir Singh.  Durga seems to be a popular motif in Sikh art, i guess its that link to war

 

surya,sun deity on the ceiling of harmandir sahib

 

some kind of yogi figure on harmandir sahib wall

[puzzled]

heres an image of a deer being chased by a tiger at harmandir sahib,  i saw a really similar one at hazur sahib but i cant find a image of it online. Deer in indian art represents ego, pride,  while the tiger chasing it is the destroyer of ego.  

you can see in at the bottom on either side

 

another one from harmandir sahib

 

[puzzled]

frescoes from baba atal rai gurdwara in amrtisar,  murals were done much later time during the downfall of the sikh kingdom. 

frescoes depict scenes mostly from guru nanak dev jis janam sakhi

If you look carefully only guru nanak dev ji has a halo or light around his head, all the other devte don't, artist has portrayed only guru nanak dev ji as divine and above the rest.  and in the center of the painting is ek onkar    not any devi or devta.   

 

in this one all the devi devte are bowing down to "Narnkaar"

[Kulwinder5]

This is tega sword ,was used in the battle against Painde Khan , donated by one of gurus followers , may be he was devotee of kali and guru hargobind singh ji at the same time

[ipledgeblue]

the problem with hinduphobia against symbology is from colonial era sects etc.

Remember as sikhs we respect both nirguna and sarguna roop.

[proactive]

Could it be the Sikhs did not want to carry flags with say images of the Gurus because it would be a gross insult if these were captured by the enemy or if these flags were damaged? 

[Sat1]

On 4/30/2019 at 10:11 PM, puzzled said:

has anyone noticed that Guru Hargobind Sahib jis sword/tegha has a carving of kali on it.  This is the same tegha that guru ji killed painde khan with. 

Right under the hilt of the sword is a image of a tiger pouncing, tigers pounce onto their prey when hunting, and above the image of the tiger is a image of kali. I'm guessing this is because kali is associated with war and destroying evil.

 

close up detail of the tiger with Persian? writing above it

 

kali

 

 

No she’s known to be a dark force, enjoying the taste of blood etc. Nothing to do with goodness etc.