ANOTHER SIKH FALLING FOR THE TRAP OF DAWAH GUYS

[Guest Amere Muhammad]

5 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

 Look where?

 

 

[jkvlondon]

Couple of interesting videos related to this

 

 

[Guest I_Kaur]

15 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I was wondering the same thing. Look where?

 Here it is 

 

 

[MisterrSingh]

On 6/27/2019 at 11:15 AM, Guest I_Kaur said:

I think, especially our younger generations are struggling because the religious leaders, Prachars and even the Giyani's themselves are shying away from the onslaught, almost in fear of confronting them and retaliating with knowledge and wisdom. There must be a reason why our people in general stay out of debates and dialogues. You ever go to the Hyde Park speakers corner, you will never see our people in the 'intellectual battle' but passers by and mere audience, and over time, they will move from nodding their heads to actually joining them. I have seen with my own eyes, young Sikh's becoming islamics... It's good saying it's a battle, but where is the "arm yourself with knowledge" and tackling the attack. It's these young guys now, but soon it'll be reaching every home. Look at the number of white girls and boys who fell for the trap. If the chrisrtians and especially the dawah gangs aren't challenged, things are about to get worse!

I'm glad you mentioned this aspect of it. The Gianis and others with the apparent knowledge are out of touch with the issues facing Sikhs on a social level. It's preaching to the converted most of the times, and even then it has very little impact. In the West there's a slight difference where English speaking parchaar is conducted by individuals who use the exact same approach as their Indian counterparts; there's an unfortunate aspect of a performance occuring instead of a honest and direct dialogue. You see these individuals who develop a following behave as if they exist on an ethereal plane of serenity above and separate from the rest of us cattle. They're more concerned with trying to imitate or create an image of an enlightened holy being than actually impart something practical and useful. It's all incredibly abstract and non-committal designed to trap someone in a cycle of action that will keep them busy in the belief that if results are not yielded they must be doing something wrong rather than provide them with a direct way out of the ills plaguing them.

Plus, as you mentioned, the Gianis and Parcharaks are politically and socially ignorant to the point where I seriously believe they're being instructed by certain parties as to not politicise and inform the sangat of certain ground realities. When one's roti and income is largely dictated by the words spoken by that individual, only someone with immense principles and a disregard for the grave consequences of speaking out would reject any form of control. When such individuals are as dependent on the status quo as the average man, you aren't going to see these people upset the apple cart and potentially cause problems for themselves whereby they won't be allowed to work. They will circle on the periphery of what's acceptable and safe to impart, but they will never truly cross the line into radical specifics.

The assumption is that if Sikhs yearning religious instruction are informed of how to function on the spiritual, abstract level, then automatically all their problems will disappear because they've been taught to bypass physical levels which is apparently where most of our problems as human beings originate from. In theory it is an approach that seems to be sensible, but unfortunately we are physical beings composed of physical matter with physical committments living in a physical world, interacting with other physical components of the universe. Pretending as if those physicalities are irrelevant by leaping straight to the higher stages of being is like trying to teach a child quantum physics without bothering to educate him on the alphabet. It's completely backwards. I'm not surprised contemporary Sikhs of the younger generations can't relate to their religion. People are more than willing to undertake the journey towards seeking knowledge, but if the teachers appear in no better situation than the people they're supposed to enlighten, then what message does that truly send? The Judeo-Christian approach is afforded the benefit of the doubt due to its proliferation in nearly every aspect of life, plus the duration it's been in existence apparently lends it a form of credibility and integrity as something worth following or at least entertaining the possibility as to its credentials. Sikhi doesn't possess that unspoken cultural "scaffolding" or backbone because we can't point to Sikh values being used to propagate a state, a country, or even a thriving society in the modern world. A historically distant Sikh empire means little to people of the modern age. In the eyes of certain individuals who place the value of a doctrine or a message in how it's physically enriched lives and states of being, Sikhi seems unfortunately lacking. That's our fault, and not a reflection of the message itself.

[Guest I_Kaur]

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

I'm glad you mentioned this aspect of it. The Gianis and others with the apparent knowledge are out of touch with the issues facing Sikhs on a social level. It's preaching to the converted most of the times, and even then it has very little impact. In the West there's a slight difference where English speaking parchaar is conducted by individuals who use the exact same approach as their Indian counterparts; there's an unfortunate aspect of a performance occuring instead of a honest and direct dialogue. You see these individuals who develop a following behave as if they exist on an ethereal plane of serenity above and separate from the rest of us cattle. They're more concerned with trying to imitate or create an image of an enlightened holy being than actually impart something practical and useful. It's all incredibly abstract and non-committal designed to trap someone in a cycle of action that will keep them busy in the belief that if results are not yielded they must be doing something wrong rather than provide them with a direct way out of the ills plaguing them.

Plus, as you mentioned, the Gianis and Parcharaks are politically and socially ignorant to the point where I seriously believe they're being instructed by certain parties as to not politicise and inform the sangat of certain ground realities. When one's roti and income is largely dictated by the words spoken by that individual, only someone with immense principles and a disregard for the grave consequences of speaking out would reject any form of control. When such individuals are as dependent on the status quo as the average man, you aren't going to see these people upset the apple cart and potentially cause problems for themselves whereby they won't be allowed to work. They will circle on the periphery of what's acceptable and safe to impart, but they will never truly cross the line into radical specifics.

The assumption is that if Sikhs yearning religious instruction are informed of how to function on the spiritual, abstract level, then automatically all their problems will disappear because they've been taught to bypass physical levels which is apparently where most of our problems as human beings originate from. In theory it is an approach that seems to be sensible, but unfortunately we are physical beings composed of physical matter with physical committments living in a physical world, interacting with other physical components of the universe. Pretending as if those physicalities are irrelevant by leaping straight to the higher stages of being is like trying to teach a child quantum physics without bothering to educate him on the alphabet. It's completely backwards. I'm not surprised contemporary Sikhs of the younger generations can't relate to their religion. People are more than willing to undertake the journey towards seeking knowledge, but if the teachers appear in no better situation than the people they're supposed to enlighten, then what message does that truly send? The Judeo-Christian approach is afforded the benefit of the doubt due to its proliferation in nearly every aspect of life, plus the duration it's been in existence apparently lends it a form of credibility and integrity as something worth following or at least entertaining the possibility as to its credentials. Sikhi doesn't possess that unspoken cultural "scaffolding" or backbone because we can't point to Sikh values being used to propagate a state, a country, or even a thriving society in the modern world. A historically distant Sikh empire means little to people of the modern age. In the eyes of certain individuals who place the value of a doctrine or a message in how it's physically enriched lives and states of being, Sikhi seems unfortunately lacking. That's our fault, and not a reflection of the message itself.

If our intellectuals/leaders are "out of touch" and the younger generations are unable to relate to them for the crisis, than what really is the future of Sikhi, in this vast oceans of turbulent waves after waves, and threats after threats? No, wonder these gullible young Sikh boys and girls are starting to ride the eaves, because there are none to sail and navigate the boat! In the olden times, it was with the threat of swords and arrows, but today it's with arguments and planting seed's of doubts, and if this threat is not countered and retaliated, trust me, it'll be a common sight to have a 'abdullah and fatima' in the Sikhi family too! We boast about how we fought against persecution of other religions and communities in the past, but how about fighting today, with the knowledge, with the sword of wisdom, against the intellectual attacks against, not just against others (vegaism for eg), but Sikhi itself. Are they just empty words or we have no real armor with fight with, because the leaders are too busy filling up their pockets and bellies?

[dallysingh101]

On 6/28/2019 at 11:25 AM, MisterrSingh said:

I'm glad you mentioned this aspect of it. The Gianis and others with the apparent knowledge are out of touch with the issues facing Sikhs on a social level. It's preaching to the converted most of the times, and even then it has very little impact. In the West there's a slight difference where English speaking parchaar is conducted by individuals who use the exact same approach as their Indian counterparts; there's an unfortunate aspect of a performance occuring instead of a honest and direct dialogue. You see these individuals who develop a following behave as if they exist on an ethereal plane of serenity above and separate from the rest of us cattle. They're more concerned with trying to imitate or create an image of an enlightened holy being than actually impart something practical and useful.

I'm glad you mentioned this because I think this vacuum is what pretty much forces some concerned people within the panth (who are outside of this bubble) to take drastic action to fill in the voids, which are essentially avenues for those with ill-intent to undermine and attack us in various ways. The grooming and conversion issues perfectly illustrate this. 

You'd have thought something as serious as these things would be a high priority with gianis but it hasn't been, leading to more and more problems. And few gianis have a real grasp of the significance of generational, cultural and language barriers at work and can't conceptualise such issues beyond people misbehaving or being indifferent - when it is infinitely more complex than that (ironically it is one of the messages CP conveys in my opinion, so we have precedent). Plus many are essentially employees who are under threat of their livelihoods if they upset the sentiments of the powerful, well-established genteel elements within us.  That's why you have the rise of other groups who are compelled to take action to redress this imbalance. 

That dynamic, socially openly honest, self-protective element within Sikhi has been diminished and replaced by a conservatism which now habitually adopts a risk averse, ostrich stance to contentious but serious issues we face - because it is 'safer' but it isn't - it's just facilitating a slow death. 

So we should be thankful for those that step outside of this and try and redress this, and fully support them - because they are fighting a tide. Which can be reversed. 

[Guest guestKaur17]

Seriously that guy DOES not look SIKH or Punjabi...when i first saw it i was like where is the Sikh?! He looking Typical Pakistani...like common on!! They doing this to make us furious and rise a reaction...Who thinks that guy is SIKH?! These muslim will do anything to get to come after our community..(grooming gangs posing as Sikhs) ...

[Guest I_Kaur]

11 hours ago, Guest guestKaur17 said:

Seriously that guy DOES not look SIKH or Punjabi...when i first saw it i was like where is the Sikh?! He looking Typical Pakistani...like common on!! They doing this to make us furious and rise a reaction...Who thinks that guy is SIKH?! These muslim will do anything to get to come after our community..(grooming gangs posing as Sikhs) ...

We have to admit, that not every single Sikh or who claims to be a Sikh, are Keshadharis. There are many 'weak in faith' Sikh's out there. That's a fact. These young guys are from Sikh families, who are turning away from Sikhi and instead of shoving it under the carpet, we must face it and respond. It's just a challenge of this era, and unless we admit it, we cannot find an answer. But if the leaders and our intellectuals are out sight and out of touch, than it'll only get worse. Today it's someone else's brother, tomorrow it'll reach our own homes and affect our own families. 

[BhForce]

On 6/28/2019 at 3:25 AM, MisterrSingh said:

he Gianis and others with the apparent knowledge are out of touch with the issues facing Sikhs on a social level.

Yeah.

On 6/28/2019 at 3:25 AM, MisterrSingh said:

You see these individuals who develop a following behave as if they exist on an ethereal plane of serenity above and separate from the rest of us cattle.

Like the Dalai Lama, "His Holiness"?

On 6/28/2019 at 3:25 AM, MisterrSingh said:

I'm not surprised contemporary Sikhs of the younger generations can't relate to their religion.

I think what you're saying is that what needs to be said in the Gurdwara is what they don't say in the Gurdwara.

As for the physical needs, I agree that bodieshave physical needs. But is that something to be addressed from the stage? Stuff like helping young people with their college applications, job search, etc., is something that Sikhs are beginning to do, but Gianis aren't supposed to do that, right?

[BhForce]

On 6/28/2019 at 5:05 AM, dallysingh101 said:

And few gianis have a real grasp of the significance of generational, cultural and language barriers at work

You mean as in being raised and trained in Punjab?

But the answer would not be a random Sikh born in the West, right? 

I mean, not having full training in Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Just being able to speak English and then spouting off your own opinions is not useful.