GURMAT SANGEET / RAAG KIRTAN / DILRUBA - JORI = LESSONS HELP

[Guest guest]

if you don't have money, how will you even buy an instrument?

[BhForce]

On 7/24/2019 at 6:58 AM, GuestSingh said:

wat if tht person learnt for free themselves as a kid from elders who werent thinking about any profit but then later decides to make profit from it?

That seems to be highly unlikely. "Elders who weren't thinking about any profit"?

That would maybe be like some old lady teaching a neighbor kid how to play a shabad or two on a harmonium.

I can't imagine how that would apply to a full-fledged ustad who has learned from top ustads and has learned and is teaching 60 raags of Guru Granth Sahib. Sixty. The vast majority of people (even some "ragis") don't even know one.

That too on a dilbruba? The vast majority of even professional ragis wouldn't know how to even play sa-re-ga-ma on a dilruba, much less 60 raags.

To want someone of that level of learning and accomplishment to work for free is just wrong, I'm sorry. It's disrespect of his scholarship.

To the OP: you need to get your life in order. I don't know if you're a student or what, but get a job. Earn money, learn the value of a dollar or a pound, and then give that money with the greatest respect to an accomplished ustad, and you will earn some benefit. Otherwise you're devaluing our musical heritage.

[BhForce]

On 7/24/2019 at 3:10 AM, AkalkiFauj said:

Yes. I would. I would because I want to keep the legacy of the Raag tradition for the next generation of Sikhs. I do know some people that teach classical raag and instruments like Rabab but that's in Australia

What I asked is if you would do accounting for free, not teach Sikh music for free.

Or plumbing, or doing truck deliveries, or programming, or whatever else it is that people do for money.

And granted that people do seva for free, but that's your dasvandh (1/10th). That can obviously never be what your main work is, unless you're a multi-millionaire.

If someone teaches music for free, that's wonderful, but that doesn't mean someone who charges for it is immoral. 

Also, there's no way someone could become a master of 60 raags in his spare time and then keep up his knowledge, too.

[Guest GuestSingh]

6 hours ago, BhForce said:

To want someone of that level of learning and accomplishment to work for free is just wrong, I'm sorry. It's disrespect of his scholarship.

so wat wud u today call an ustaad who charges yet learnt from someone who was well-learned n highly accomplished for free? arent they disrespecting this art by seeking a profit when it wasnt necessary for teachers of the past?

6 hours ago, BhForce said:

Also, there's no way someone could become a master of 60 raags in his spare time and then keep up his knowledge, too.

wat if u happened to learn from young e.g 10 n stuck wiv it outta pure love n natural ability until the age of say 70 or so? a raag or even few a year is enough to become proficient to the level of mastery.

extremely unlikely in this age but not impossible.

[MisterrSingh]

The best and most effective way to ensure an art or specialist knowledge is limited in circulation among a tiny elite is to covet its proliferation or hide it behind unattainable barriers that are only surpassed by wealth. I'm not suggesting time and effort of a teacher's knowledge should not be rewarded, but as I said previously, we are, Sikh or not, generally in a world where only those with the resources are able to access these arts regardless of the talent of the student. A kid with mediocre skills who'll never develop beyond adequacy will be welcomed with open arms by a teacher because his parents can afford to splash out on the best tuition, whereas a potential savant will never proceed beyond promising innate potential because the child hails from an impoverished background where luxuries such as musical tuition are a pipe dream. Our community being one driven by materialism and superficiality -- the arts being no exception -- means the ustaads see currency signs before they see much else.  It's a truth I've seen with my own eyes.

[Guest GuestSingh]

6 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

The best and most effective way to ensure an art or specialist knowledge is limited in circulation among a tiny elite is to covet its proliferation or hide it behind unattainable barriers that are only surpassed by wealth. I'm not suggesting time and effort of a teacher's knowledge should not be rewarded, but as I said previously, we are, Sikh or not, generally in a world where only those with the resources are able to access these arts regardless of the talent of the student. A kid with mediocre skills who'll never develop beyond adequacy will be welcomed with open arms by a teacher because his parents can afford to splash out on the best tuition, whereas a potential savant will never proceed beyond promising innate potential because the child hails from an impoverished background where luxuries such as musical tuition are a pipe dream. Our community being one driven by materialism and superficiality -- the arts being no exception -- means the ustaads see currency signs before they see much else.  It's a truth I've seen with my own eyes.

altho largely unknown, we c institutions like the raj academy lot from london continue to reveal n expose this gift from maharaj to foreign audiences. its clear they wanna attract whitey by usin their name to generate more revenue thru tuition n earn further wiv sponsors/events.

it wud also explain y their musical instruments r so much more expensive to reputable names wen theres no difference at all between em n thts comin from an experienced ustaad.

bruv if my memory is correct, ur from bham/w.midlands? so u must no about the otha institution in the area? if so, is it one u feel is equally duplicitous?

[MisterrSingh]

2 minutes ago, GuestSingh said:

altho largely unknown, we c institutions like the raj academy lot from london continue to reveal n expose this gift from maharaj to foreign audiences. its clear they wanna attract whitey by usin their name to generate more revenue thru tuition n earn further wiv sponsors/events.

it wud also explain y their musical instruments r so much more expensive to reputable names wen theres no difference at all between em n thts comin from an experienced ustaad.

bruv if my memory is correct, ur from bham/w.midlands? so u must no about the otha institution in the area? if so, is it one u feel is equally duplicitous?

Nah, not from the Midlands but occasionally pass through for various reasons. 

I'm just generally mistrustful of any place that is meant to be for a so-called higher purpose but actually on closer inspection money seems to be the overriding factor in everything. Behind the PR and the pakandh it's business as usual.

[Guest GuestSingh]

1 minute ago, MisterrSingh said:

Nah, not from the Midlands but occasionally pass through for various reasons. 

I'm just generally mistrustful of any place that is meant to be for a so-called higher purpose but actually on closer inspection money seems to be the overriding factor in everything. Behind the PR and the pakandh it's business as usual.

theekya bro.

but wat u say is the sad truth. u see it everywhere in places u wudnt expect.

doubt all of it cuz u tend to be ryt.

[AkalkiFauj]

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 3:00 PM, GuestSingh said:

where r u based bro? w.midlands?

check out https://gurmatsangeet.org

theres a sunday morning class in bham if ur interested.

Thanks!

 

[AkalkiFauj]

On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 9:34 AM, BhForce said:

What I asked is if you would do accounting for free, not teach Sikh music for free.

Or plumbing, or doing truck deliveries, or programming, or whatever else it is that people do for money.

And granted that people do seva for free, but that's your dasvandh (1/10th). That can obviously never be what your main work is, unless you're a multi-millionaire.

If someone teaches music for free, that's wonderful, but that doesn't mean someone who charges for it is immoral. 

Also, there's no way someone could become a master of 60 raags in his spare time and then keep up his knowledge, too.

You are so funny