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Guest Sunny Singh

GURMAT SANGEET / RAAG KIRTAN / DILRUBA - JORI = LESSONS HELP

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Derby have free weekly Kirtan Classes at Singh Sabha Gurdwara on Princes Street for any age persons

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On 7/13/2019 at 1:45 AM, Guest Sunny Singh said:

Vahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vahiguru Ji ki Fateh,

 

I am based in central London, and I have always been drawn to Drupad / original raag gurmat sangeet kirtan but I have never had the confidence to pursue further.

I am totally lost in terms of knowing where to go to seek help for learning and I would really want to become a student of a Ustaad / teacher and dedicate myself to being a loyal student.

 

The other major fact and element is that I am financially not secure currently and do not have enough finances to fund private expensive lessons and would humbly ask to be taught for free or at a very reduced amount of price of funds if need be.

 

So I have a humble Benti if anyone can help.

I think you should try Southall Singh Sabha, unsure if Havelock or Park Avenue gurdwara does it.

I am sure Ramgharia Southall does Raj Academy raag classes on weekends as I read it on raj academy website.

I think Slough Ramgharia gurdwara does it as well.

Please find out more and post information as I really want to start raag classes as well, it is shocking the lack of raag keertan played even in the main gurdwaras!

On 7/14/2019 at 7:36 PM, AkalkiFauj said:

WJKK WJKF

I would recommend Guru Maneyo Granth Gurdwara in Slough as they have many classes and that is the nearest place that I would recommend to you. You also might want to contact the singhs of The Mardana Project

lol Raag insturments at Guru Maneyo Granth? You must be joking. I think most of their keertan is not even close to raag, and all I seen them play is harmonium. I think some keertan jathas that play there play normal keertan like other gurdwaras.

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On 7/26/2019 at 9:28 AM, BhForce said:

I can't imagine how that would apply to a full-fledged ustad who has learned from top ustads and has learned and is teaching 60 raags of Guru Granth Sahib. Sixty. The vast majority of people (even some "ragis") don't even know one.

To want someone of that level of learning and accomplishment to work for free is just wrong, I'm sorry. It's disrespect of his scholarship.

 

i can understand 100% what you mean BUT when it is for religious purposes, either for him to worship on his own, or to sing for sangat, yes i can imagine someone one teaching it free.  they should do.

i can think of the example of martial arts masters and yogis who took on students for free, so long as the student had the commitment and put in the work.

 

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is is Namdhari sings who specialise in raag kirtan?  

it might be forbidden for you if you are amritdhari (because of their beliefs).  but one possibility is to find out if there is a naamdhari place in london.  they might teach you for free.

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if you are really committed, you can learn the basics of raag from youtube, or free websites

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On 8/4/2019 at 12:51 AM, ipledgeblue said:

I think you should try Southall Singh Sabha, unsure if Havelock or Park Avenue gurdwara does it.

I am sure Ramgharia Southall does Raj Academy raag classes on weekends as I read it on raj academy website.

I think Slough Ramgharia gurdwara does it as well.

Please find out more and post information as I really want to start raag classes as well, it is shocking the lack of raag keertan played even in the main gurdwaras!

lol Raag insturments at Guru Maneyo Granth? You must be joking. I think most of their keertan is not even close to raag, and all I seen them play is harmonium. I think some keertan jathas that play there play normal keertan like other gurdwaras.

True They do Akj style 

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On 8/4/2019 at 3:58 PM, Guest guest said:

is is Namdhari sings who specialise in raag kirtan?  

it might be forbidden for you if you are amritdhari (because of their beliefs).  but one possibility is to find out if there is a naamdhari place in london.  they might teach you for free.

No, it is not "forbidden" to learn from a non-Sikh. Of course, you should never bow to the Namdhari "Guru". But that "Guru" is not going to travel from Bhaini in Punjab to England to ask you to matha-tek to him.

It's no more forbidden to learn music from a Namdhari than it is to learn English from a Christian.

Finally, if it would be forbidden for an Amritdhari to learn from a Namdhari, it would equally forbidden from anybody who calls himself a Sikh.

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On 7/26/2019 at 7:41 AM, GuestSingh said:

so wat wud u today call an ustaad who charges yet learnt from someone who was well-learned n highly accomplished for free? 

I don't know what I'd call him, but do you have any example of such a person? Or are you just engaging in pure speculation?

Again, this "well-learned and highly accomplished ustaad #1", how in the world did he learn sixty raags for free and also become "accomplished" in his spare time? How did he "accomplish" so much (training his voice, doing sargams, writing bandishes, learning tabla taals), while also farming his fields or making furniture to sell or tailoring clothes?

 

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On 7/26/2019 at 9:01 AM, MisterrSingh said:

The best and most effective way to ensure an art or specialist knowledge is limited in circulation among a tiny elite is to covet its proliferation or hide it behind unattainable barriers that are only surpassed by wealth.

It could be argued that the way to propagate something is to allow people to sell it.

I mean, if you prohibit selling music knowledge, there will naturally be very few music teachers. The only people who will be able to travel to them will be the wealthy.

On 7/26/2019 at 9:01 AM, MisterrSingh said:

potential savant will never proceed beyond promising innate potential because the child hails from an impoverished background

We are talking about the West, aren't we? Who exactly among Sikhs living in the West, even truck drivers and taxi drivers are under the poverty level?

I think we all know that apne will spend hundreds of dollars when Gippy Grewal or some such are in town. Or for getting good seats at football or other games. Suddenly, they become poor when it comes to music lessons.

On 7/26/2019 at 9:01 AM, MisterrSingh said:

Our community being one driven by materialism and superficiality

And that's exactly what I would put on us, not the ustaads. We are greedy and expect that someone should spend their time instructing our little brats for free or next to nothing.

I believe we should compensate them richly.

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4 minutes ago, BhForce said:

It could be argued that the way to propagate something is to allow people to sell it.

I mean, if you prohibit selling music knowledge, there will naturally be very few music teachers. The only people who will be able to travel to them will be the wealthy.

We are talking about the West, aren't we? Who exactly among Sikhs living in the West, even truck drivers and taxi drivers are under the poverty level?

I think we all know that apne will spend hundreds of dollars when Gippy Grewal or some such are in town. Or for getting good seats at football or other games. Suddenly, they become poor when it comes to music lessons.

And that's exactly what I would put on us, not the ustaads. We are greedy and expect that someone should spend their time instructing our little brats for free or next to nothing.

I believe we should compensate them richly.

Let me think about it some more. I'm somewhere in the middle of understanding the need to reward the instructors for imparting their knowledge, but also realising the nature of how our cultural habits work against us in areas where there's very little immediate enrichment and material value. It's an interesting subject.

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Just now, MisterrSingh said:

Let me think about it some more. I'm somewhere in the middle of understanding the need to reward the instructors for imparting their knowledge, but also realising the nature of how our cultural habits work against us in areas where there's very little immediate enrichment and material value. It's an interesting subject.

OK, that's reasonable. And I do acknowledge that the ideal is for us to pass on knowledge on a nishkaam (voluntary/free) basis.

But I just can't see how that would be possible. I am certainly open to knowing (as above) how someone can possibly learn classical raag sangeet with 60 raags plus tabla taals and also have a good singing voice in their spare time and also make time to teach somebody else's snotty, ungrateful kids for free.

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1 hour ago, BhForce said:

OK, that's reasonable. And I do acknowledge that the ideal is for us to pass on knowledge on a nishkaam (voluntary/free) basis.

But I just can't see how that would be possible. I am certainly open to knowing (as above) how someone can possibly learn classical raag sangeet with 60 raags plus tabla taals and also have a good singing voice in their spare time and also make time to teach somebody else's snotty, ungrateful kids for free.

I think for that transaction (between teacher and student) to reach and fulfil its most fruitful outcome, it requires exemplary character and personality on both sides, else I feel the exchange between the two parties might be rewarding for both parties (dependent on respective wants), but the greater moral and perhaps spiritual affects of imparting that knowledge is, in my opinion, devalued if the individuals involved in that transaction are unworthy or lacking in some way, particularly in the case of this subject as it relates to ensuring a unique art to a particular culture or group, does not gradually die out. Does that sound judgemental? Perhaps. I don't think that's necessarily a negative each and every time.

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14 hours ago, BhForce said:

No, it is not "forbidden" to learn from a non-Sikh. Of course, you should never bow to the Namdhari "Guru". But that "Guru" is not going to travel from Bhaini in Punjab to England to ask you to matha-tek to him.

It's no more forbidden to learn music from a Namdhari than it is to learn English from a Christian.

Finally, if it would be forbidden for an Amritdhari to learn from a Namdhari, it would equally forbidden from anybody who calls himself a Sikh.

i disagree.  the rules for Amritdharis are more strict/elevated then for others.  old rehits don't even allow mixing with muslims ("turks").  this is because you take on the traits of those you mix with.

aside from their belief in a continuing succession fo Gurus, the Naamdharis are very similar to mainstream Khalsa rehit, hence the more caution because the more pronounced the heresy due to similarity.  

another example would be guidance against mixing with Minas during Gurujis' times.

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your analogy about learning English from a Christian is not appropriate.  firstly because you wouldnt be going to church to learn it, secondly because English is outside of your religious sphere as a sikh (you are not learning it for worship purposes)

then again your analogy proves my point, because learning English from missionary schools means that the Protestant mindset influenced Singh Sabha theory, right?

 

 

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On 7/13/2019 at 1:45 AM, Guest Sunny Singh said:

 

I am totally lost in terms of knowing where to go to seek help for learning and I would really want to become a student of a Ustaad / teacher and dedicate myself to being a loyal student.

 

Just checked out Ramgharia gurdwara Slough and went to a Raag Keertan session. so they definitely do classes there on Sundays at 12pm.

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