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Natural order


Guest Charlie Chapathi
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9 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

think uve misinterpreted his words wiv western thinkin here.

mai bhago ji surrendered n submitted to guru ji. she served them as a bodyguard n also as a sikh as written for us in gurbani. thats gurmat, not manmat which is wat the rest of us do. she chose to follow the truth. so u cnt say she was led around by a man. dnt think it was ur intention but it sounded like u dnt c guru sahibaan as no different to man. they were waheguru in human form.

I dont see Guru ji as a 'man' I know they were Waheguru in human form that's why they all call themselves as 'Nanak'.

 

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33 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

In sikhi Akal Purakh is in all so all humans are equal in status , we do not have such rules governing us saying women are not to speak or teach guys in congregation  or the'rule of thumb' as our Scriptures teach us to view each other as deserving of love and respect and consider oppression as antigurmat .

People just do not understand anymore, I'm a Male with a female Avatar and they think of me as female just because of ot it, really strange, I was brought up as as everyone is equal.

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5 minutes ago, Redoptics said:

People just do not understand anymore, I'm a Male with a female Avatar and they think of me as female just because of ot it, really strange, I was brought up as as everyone is equal.

yep the above rules are Christian/abrahamic  they believe women are inferior in intellect and spirit as they are daughters of Eve i.e. doorways to evil. (muc h like all the other faiths excluding sikhi) . I mean they are advised to chastise their woman if she speaks in congregation (meaning teaching sermons)  or if she speaks up for herself , that they can do so with a stick no thicker than their thumb - barbaric really. People need to grow up and realise that so many sikh BIbian did panthic services without being considered worth writing down even in history books including Guru di Matavan , Guru di Mahalan, Guru di betian , because of male historians' male prejudices coming out of their upbringing. However the sikhs of those times must have known about them and respected them . Our 'history' books have omissions which become apparent when you go to ground level and see the actual places of our history . The people remember .

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2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

yep the above rules are Christian/abrahamic  they believe women are inferior in intellect and spirit as they are daughters of Eve i.e. doorways to evil. (muc h like all the other faiths excluding sikhi) . I mean they are advised to chastise their woman if she speaks in congregation (meaning teaching sermons)  or if she speaks up for herself , that they can do so with a stick no thicker than their thumb - barbaric really. People need to grow up and realise that so many sikh BIbian did panthic services without being considered worth writing down even in history books including Guru di Matavan , Guru di Mahalan, Guru di betian , because of male historians' male prejudices coming out of their upbringing. However the sikhs of those times must have known about them and respected them . Our 'history' books have omissions which become apparent when you go to ground level and see the actual places of our history . The people remember .

What i do not understand is why people do not follow what their Gurus did, people now only think we have 2 guru nanak dev ji and guru gobind singh ji,  they forget everyone else even though all Gurus are Weheguru 

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On 9/13/2019 at 3:58 PM, Guest Charlie Chapathi said:

Is there any sakhi that supports Man as head of the household?

i dont know of any, but in gurbani Gurus have spoken about the characteristics of Kalyug/dark age and one of the characteristics is women taking lead. Kalyug is the age of darkness or the days that lead to the end  

Guru Nanak dev ji says

ਰੰਨਾ ਹੋਈਆ ਬੋਧੀਆ ਪੁਰਸ ਹੋਏ ਸਈਆਦ ॥
rannaa hoeeaa bodhheeaa puras hoeae seeaadh ||
Women have become advisors, and men have become hunters.

..............................

In Dasam bani Guru Gobind Singh ji says something similar.  Heres a video of kalki avtaar, at 4:01 in the video  Guru Gobind Singh ji says how men will come under their wifes control.

 

 

Men and Women are equal in gods eyes but Man is the head of the house, but because of Kalyug women will take the lead and become head while men will come under their wives. 

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On 9/10/2019 at 1:55 AM, Guest Charlie Chapathi said:

In Christianity there is a concept called the natural order. It states that God is over man, man is over woman and woman over children. It basically sets the man as the head of the house. 

Is there such a concept in Sikhism?

Sikhism (SGGS) deals with Spiritual path only.  The only natural order is God is above everyone, each individual has to recognise that and have a direct relationship with Him.

the moral order (dharma) has always been there in India (so does not need to be mentioned in Sikhi).  Basically the man was the one who acted on decisions (the external figurehead or leader), however the man would consult his wife for input and advice on all matters.  intelligence and discernment of women in all areas was recognised and accepted.

however many of the sikhs these days are clueless about principles of 'dharma'.

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On 9/13/2019 at 8:27 AM, puzzled said:

Man is the head of the house in sikhi. When we get married and walk around guru granth sahib ji  its the man that leads the way and the woman follows. 

exactly.  admit it- it would look silly if the woman lead and the man followed.  people would laugh.  ask yourselves why?

all these 'feminists' are clueless.

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On 9/14/2019 at 7:13 PM, kcmidlands said:

I remember before i got married i questioned why the man walks in front of the woman at the time of Anand Karaj, the answer i got from many people was it's nothing to do with Sikhi but more to do with culture and out way of thinking. My grandad said something along the lines of " Being in front doesn't always make you superior, look at a horse and cart, the more intelligent one is behind, when we take Guru Sahib somewhere, there is always someone in front clearing the way, that doesn't make them superior to our Guru".

Completely agree with what @Redoptics has said, the Anand Karaj isn't about who's in charge, it's about connecting our souls to waheguru.

 

it is not about inferiority.

but sikh women (girls?) are so obsessed with 'not being inferior', 'not being subjugated'.  hello? the whole hetero sex act is about subjugation.  if that offends you- don't get married or have sex.

sikh women these days want to 'act like men' when it comes to sikhi, but are perfectly happy to play 'inferior' and 'walk behind' for other communities and cultures.  pathetic.

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