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WGJKK WGJKF

I am father to a 20 year old lad in the midlands. Myself and his mum have tried to educate, love and protect him. We have instilled Sikhi into his life (is there any other way ?!)  and he is generally good. We bought a dhol which he loves playing and proudly joined the Nagar Kirtan. Found him an interim job at a bank whilst he tries to find his vocation. Learning to drive at the same and we talked about his future career, future marriage, home etc. Family is tight knit and his cousins on both sides he leans on.

Everything going ok or so we thought....

As parents we asked / advised  him to save money for his future, keep looking to improve your career, take your driving test, keep your room organised, keep going out to a minimum and please respect your parents. Is this asking the earth?

8 weeks ago his aunt took ambrath which was a special moment in our family, which we are blessed. He had asked prior that after the event he could go out with his mates and I replied that we won’t be finishing from his aunts until late, so no. Upon our return he sulked and after some strong words he stormed out. His elder brother calmed him down and the next morning didn’t see fit to apologise. 

Things settled down shortly after and we put it behind us although both me and his mum noticed a further descent into poorer attitude.

Sure enough a couple of weeks later he requests to attend a Muslim work mates wedding for 3 nights and 4 days. I said no. We argued until I reasoned a compromise - attend the night before the wedding day and I’ll collect him after the reception the next day as the bride and groom wish for everyone to go home after that in my experience. Still no. Refusal. 

He leaves for the wedding and on the 5th day sends a message that he is not returning home. He promptly stops answering all calls and texts. His mother starts to get sick with worry. She’s already grieving for her deceased mother a couple of months prior and doesn’t need this. We contact his friends who don’t answer us but he then sends a text to stop bothering them. “One more time you contact them and we are done” a nice text to his mother reads. Misses his baby sister’s birthday and she’s devastated. 

‘Eventually he relents and stays with his grandparents who don’t question a thing. He comes home between 10pm and 4am most nights and they let him in. To our horror we discover he is seeing a Bengali girl. Apparently she is hiding the relationship from her parents too. He takes his Kara off to visit sheesha bars and stops eating pork. His mother (without telling me) leaves heartfelt, crying voicemails- no response. Earned £1300 in one month and had blown the whole lot in 3 weeks on Uber’s, restaurants and God knows what else. 

Ive gone from disbelief to rage to pragmatism - he’s selfish, arrogant and stupid. I don’t think he’ll change. He’s faced no hardship and constantly bailed out by us. His mother thinks he’ll return, I don’t think so. I believe he’s living a bubble and this girl eggs him on. Grandparents think he’ll walk - I want him to as this will be a life lesson he may need. I have no idea if he will convert to Islam as growing up we had nothing but contempt for their way of life. 

‘His mum had a 3 hour meeting with him (he refused to see me)  where they hugged and cried and he needs more time and promised to call her etc. 4 days pass and nothing. Think we have lost him. 

Rather turn to a Bengali girl of 4 months relationship than his parents, siblings and family.

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On 9/19/2019 at 10:07 PM, Guest Browneyes said:

WGJKK WGJKF

I am father to a 20 year old lad in the midlands. Myself and his mum have tried to educate, love and protect him. We have instilled Sikhi into his life (is there any other way ?!)  and he is generally good. We bought a dhol which he loves playing and proudly joined the Nagar Kirtan. Found him an interim job at a bank whilst he tries to find his vocation. Learning to drive at the same and we talked about his future career, future marriage, home etc. Family is tight knit and his cousins on both sides he leans on.

Everything going ok or so we thought....

As parents we asked / advised  him to save money for his future, keep looking to improve your career, take your driving test, keep your room organised, keep going out to a minimum and please respect your parents. Is this asking the earth?

8 weeks ago his aunt took ambrath which was a special moment in our family, which we are blessed. He had asked prior that after the event he could go out with his mates and I replied that we won’t be finishing from his aunts until late, so no. Upon our return he sulked and after some strong words he stormed out. His elder brother calmed him down and the next morning didn’t see fit to apologise. 

Things settled down shortly after and we put it behind us although both me and his mum noticed a further descent into poorer attitude.

Sure enough a couple of weeks later he requests to attend a Muslim work mates wedding for 3 nights and 4 days. I said no. We argued until I reasoned a compromise - attend the night before the wedding day and I’ll collect him after the reception the next day as the bride and groom wish for everyone to go home after that in my experience. Still no. Refusal. 

He leaves for the wedding and on the 5th day sends a message that he is not returning home. He promptly stops answering all calls and texts. His mother starts to get sick with worry. She’s already grieving for her deceased mother a couple of months prior and doesn’t need this. We contact his friends who don’t answer us but he then sends a text to stop bothering them. “One more time you contact them and we are done” a nice text to his mother reads. Misses his baby sister’s birthday and she’s devastated. 

‘Eventually he relents and stays with his grandparents who don’t question a thing. He comes home between 10pm and 4am most nights and they let him in. To our horror we discover he is seeing a Bengali girl. Apparently she is hiding the relationship from her parents too. He takes his Kara off to visit sheesha bars and stops eating pork. His mother (without telling me) leaves heartfelt, crying voicemails- no response. Earned £1300 in one month and had blown the whole lot in 3 weeks on Uber’s, restaurants and God knows what else. 

Ive gone from disbelief to rage to pragmatism - he’s selfish, arrogant and stupid. I don’t think he’ll change. He’s faced no hardship and constantly bailed out by us. His mother thinks he’ll return, I don’t think so. I believe he’s living a bubble and this girl eggs him on. Grandparents think he’ll walk - I want him to as this will be a life lesson he may need. I have no idea if he will convert to Islam as growing up we had nothing but contempt for their way of life. 

‘His mum had a 3 hour meeting with him (he refused to see me)  where they hugged and cried and he needs more time and promised to call her etc. 4 days pass and nothing. Think we have lost him. 

Rather turn to a Bengali girl of 4 months relationship than his parents, siblings and family.

The most difficult part of parenting for me is accepting that at some point my children will do what they want, as parent's we can only guide them in a way that we feel is right, at some point we have to let go and hope we've done a half decent job.

You sound as though you've done a good job of raising your lad but when they find a little independence sometimes they go off on one, your son is earning for himself to he feels he doesn't need anyone and can make his own decisions, the plus side is he's living with family.

If he's going out with someone from a different religion that adds another lay of complexity, especially the religion you mentioned, one thing i will say is not to abandon him, when people try to convert you over to Islam the first thing they do is try and isolate the person and portray their family as the bad guys, he's been going out with this girl for 4 month's, you've known him his entire life, remind him of that and how much you love him, anger will only drive him further away.

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Guest Sat
19 minutes ago, kcmidlands said:

The most difficult part of parenting for me is accepting that at some point my children will do what they want, as parent's we can only guide them in a way that we feel is right, at some point we have to let go and hope we've done a half decent job.

You sound as though you've done a good job of raising your lad but when they find a little independence sometimes they go off on one, your son is earning for himself to he feels he doesn't need anyone and can make his own decisions, the plus side is he's living with family.

If he's going out with someone from a different religion that adds another lay of complexity, especially the religion you mentioned, one thing i will say is not to abandon him, when people try to convert you over to Islam the first thing they do is try and isolate the person and portray their family as the bad guys, he's been going out with this girl for 4 month's, you've known him his entire life, remind him of that and how much you love him, anger will only drive him further away.

Our kids are not really ours, don't forget that. Hes now 20 yrs old, and hes an Adult and free to do as he chooses. The more you clamp down on him, the more likely he will be to rebel. 

You don't need to be a strict Sikh parent. You've done what you can to educate him, you don't really have a say in Allowing him to attend a wedding as he is a grown adult now. If hes in love with the Bengali girl, there isn't really much you can do. You've educated him, hopefully in the correct and not a racist way (many sikh parents tend to be incredibly racist and intolerant) so now hes free to do as he chooses (we are All blessed with Freedom of choice). 

Loosen the reigns abit, helping him, out financially doesn't give you the right to control him, no one has that right over another human being. When you let go abit, he may come back to you. But don't control. 

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Guest Empathy

Dear friend,

 I am a Muslim parent with sons in their twenties and can relate to the angst you are feeling. When you have done all you can to raise a child in a loving and faith-based family, you don’t expect such blinkered disrespect. You certainly don’t deserve it. You might be feeling as though you have been as liberal as possible and that your son is entitled to no more coddling. While you’d be justified in feeling this way, please consider the end game: you want your son back. You also want the respect and repentance that you are due; that will come, but please take some advice here. 

His girlfriend will not marry him. Her parents, if they were welcoming of converts, would be helping your son in his journey to Islam. The fact that their daughter doesn’t have a relationship with her parents in which she is able to introduce your son - as a ‘potential’  Muslim - suggests that she would never be allowed to marry him even if his conversion were a fait accompli. Therefore, their relationship has no future and he WILL return to the fold of your family and faith.

However, during this process you really need to suppress how you truly feel about your son’s wanton idiocy. You have to be there for him in an accepting and non judgmental way - not because you want to, but because it works. Be the family that he wants to return to when she drops him. 

Once he returns and does some real growing up, he will say all the things you wish he would say now. 

I do wish you the best outcome for your family. Remember to keep a united, tolerant and open house, not because he deserves it, but so that he will turn back to you. 

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His faith is weak and the bengali females influence is strong.

There are drunk useless punjabi moneh out there that would never convert to another faith, regardless of there lifestyle they still have strong feelings for their sikh heritage. 

Don't blame yourself    you done everything you could 

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He's a grown lad and has taken his own path.

One thing u could try as I know personally it worked on far too many individuals both girls and boys going astray, hold a Sukhmani sahib in Gurudwara or house and do an Ardaas benti for your son to be well. NOT for him to get back on path, thas kinda like wishing and change Maharaaj's hukam. But wishing him well and best.

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I feel extremely sorry what you're going through ! 

As a yet-to-be father of my not-yet-born baby , I have contemplated whats the best way of parenting. How do you know when to squeeze and when let go , when to exert control and if doing so helps .

Although I am not a father yet, I am guessing your son grew up in a somewhat sheltered environment and was unable to cope up with the pains of growing up . When exposed to outside world all of a sudden, he found himself bewildered and overwhelmed , and he was probably frustrated and confused, and the enemy who always awaits such moments finally came in this pic.

Yes I do think your son has been a target of these extremists muslims. :(  They will probably want to have him convert to islam too , and the wicked group just used the bengali girl to lure him.

I think you should start putting detectives behind your son for starters 

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I've seen lots of boys grow up in my family. One thing I can say is that they seriously resent overbearing parents when older (not saying the OP is doing this). 

But it does seem strange to me that you still ferry your son about despite him being 20.

Some guys need to experience the outside world without a chaperone. There is nothing more emasculating than having  overbearing parents when you are in adulthood yourself. I've seen this lead to seething resentment, and this what it sounds like your relationship has come to?

When it comes to this, the child tries to escape the environment - which is what he seems to be trying to do. 

Thinking back to all of the ones I've seen grown up. In the end they will do what they want as adults. I think, if a person themself was a conformist, non-adventurous child  to their own parents, it is hard for them to understand their own child's behaviour when they don't behave similarly. 

If the adult-'child' has become deeply resentful (probably over many years), they may actually associate their background (i.e religion/culture) with the perceived suppression they are subjectively feeling. That makes them more likely to jump ship to another society. I've seen this umpteen times over decades, but it is usually females who do this - not guys. 

On reflection, I think one thing some Panjabi parents get  wrong is in the environment they create at home for their kids. Often the kids perceive it as oppressive and rebel against it. But that being said: You can get it right and still have a child do what they want (and against your wishes) too. 

I think this growing up thing, isn't just for adult 'children' but for the parents too. We all have to let go one day, maybe it's just the situation in which this happens that we have some control of - if we are lucky?

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Guest Guest BrownEyes

Thank you Brothers and Sisters for some very interesting viewpoints.

An update, if you will. A few days ago, I meditated and released my anger. I gathered my wife and we went round my parents to speak to our son, to catch him off guard. He was responsive at the start and as we casually chatted, his mother asked did he have a girlfriend. He admitted yes, but had finished with her. We don't believe him to be honest but like one of you said the likelihood is this relationship will fizzle out if she's keeping it from her parents aswell.

We asked would he prefer to draw a line of the previous events and we move on or talk about it. He replied that he wants the line drawn. We apologised (!) for not treating him like an adult and he is in charge of his salary and education and we're here to offer guidance if he needs it. We asked in return he respect us as parents and the obvious risks to his life with a muslim girlfriend e.g. intolerance from some insane individuals in the Bengali community might come to the conclusion the girl is being raped and take retribution. 

We discovered my parents are attempting to change his job for the better and put him on a studying course to give him more chance of a better job and he hasn't been out for a couple of days (we suspect the girl is away).

He came home for a couple of hours and gathered some more things and then reconnected for a short while with his brother and sister, like he never left. He assured us he will start to contact us both parents again but he still wants to live with his Grand parents. He has even changed his address and bank account to reflect the new address.

I am relieved in the sense that I have let him go in my mind and he is free to make mistakes and learn life lessons as he goes on and I will take a huge step back. For my spouse she has started eating and sleeping again so a win on both fronts of some sort. I believe at some point the lad will return or try and live on his own. Either way, for me one less child to worry about. I know that sounds cruel but its my only way of dealing with it.

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Guest Truth
On 9/22/2019 at 2:51 AM, Guest Empathy said:

Dear friend,

 I am a Muslim parent with sons in their twenties and can relate to the angst you are feeling. When you have done all you can to raise a child in a loving and faith-based family, you don’t expect such blinkered disrespect. You certainly don’t deserve it. You might be feeling as though you have been as liberal as possible and that your son is entitled to no more coddling. While you’d be justified in feeling this way, please consider the end game: you want your son back. You also want the respect and repentance that you are due; that will come, but please take some advice here. 

His girlfriend will not marry him. Her parents, if they were welcoming of converts, would be helping your son in his journey to Islam. The fact that their daughter doesn’t have a relationship with her parents in which she is able to introduce your son - as a ‘potential’  Muslim - suggests that she would never be allowed to marry him even if his conversion were a fait accompli. Therefore, their relationship has no future and he WILL return to the fold of your family and faith.

However, during this process you really need to suppress how you truly feel about your son’s wanton idiocy. You have to be there for him in an accepting and non judgmental way - not because you want to, but because it works. Be the family that he wants to return to when she drops him. 

Once he returns and does some real growing up, he will say all the things you wish he would say now. 

I do wish you the best outcome for your family. Remember to keep a united, tolerant and open house, not because he deserves it, but so that he will turn back to you. 

Parents dont matter when a young adult decides to marry out of their faith. Humans are free to do as they choose. You would not want your child to marry a sikh and the sikh would not want their child to marry a muslim. In actual fact God is One and this is what Nanak tried to teach, that there in fact Is no Hindu or Muslim. That we are One. But that appears to have fallen on deaf ears for the most part.

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Guest GuestSingh
On 9/25/2019 at 6:22 PM, Guest Truth said:

Parents dont matter when a young adult decides to marry out of their faith. Humans are free to do as they choose. You would not want your child to marry a sikh and the sikh would not want their child to marry a muslim. In actual fact God is One and this is what Nanak tried to teach, that there in fact Is no Hindu or Muslim. That we are One. But that appears to have fallen on deaf ears for the most part.

guest opinion,

ur obviously not a sikh otherwise u wudnt be referrin to our first guru by their first name alone wivout any honorifics. u were asked by another poster y u did this but ignored his post n never gave us an answer. so y r u here? wats ur game?

if u think u can brainwash ppl here wiv ur liberal exremist nonsense then ur jus wastin ur time n ours. no one has listened to it n we aint gna start now either.

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Guest Empathy
20 minutes ago, GuestSingh said:

guest opinion,

ur obviously not a sikh otherwise u wudnt be referrin to our first guru by their first name alone wivout any honorifics. u were asked by another poster y u did this but ignored his post n never gave us an answer. so y r u here? wats ur game?

if u think u can brainwash ppl here wiv ur liberal exremist nonsense then ur jus wastin ur time n ours. no one has listened to it n we aint gna start now either.

Dear Guest Singh, 

As I see it, Guest Truth was pointing out that love is guided by obstinacy rather than reason. That’s a fair point. I understand why you would pull him up in his lack of respect in not using Guru as an honorific, but all you might infer from his omission is that he is not likely a Sikh. I’m not sure where the remainder of your assertion (that he has an extremist liberal agenda) comes from. I suggest that we don’t hijack this thread, in which well-intended advice and observations have been shared, and give thanks that Guest Brown Eyes is finally seeing his son show some maturity. 

I think, Brown Eyes, you will face a fair few hurdles with your son, but if you demonstrate the same resilience over future issues as you have with this one, then your family unit will remain strong. God willing. 

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Guest Sat
9 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

guest opinion,

ur obviously not a sikh otherwise u wudnt be referrin to our first guru by their first name alone wivout any honorifics. u were asked by another poster y u did this but ignored his post n never gave us an answer. so y r u here? wats ur game?

if u think u can brainwash ppl here wiv ur liberal exremist nonsense then ur jus wastin ur time n ours. no one has listened to it n we aint gna start now either.

I call Nanak by his name because I love him. Do you add titles to your loved ones names?

 

My views arent liberal or extremist, look at His teachings, No Hindu and No Muslim, Only One. When you understand this, you'll realise that we're all One. It's all in Gurbani, and if Love is extremist, then so be it. 

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Guest GuestSingh
On 10/4/2019 at 12:47 PM, Guest Sat said:

I call Nanak by his name because I love him. Do you add titles to your loved ones names?

no in our culture we only need to use titles since theyre respectful forms of address n context is already provided.

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Guest guest
On 10/4/2019 at 3:14 AM, GuestSingh said:

guest opinion,

ur obviously not a sikh otherwise u wudnt be referrin to our first guru by their first name alone wivout any honorifics. u were asked by another poster y u did this but ignored his post n never gave us an answer. so y r u here? wats ur game?

if u think u can brainwash ppl here wiv ur liberal exremist nonsense then ur jus wastin ur time n ours. no one has listened to it n we aint gna start now either.

i agree.  

he/she doesn't even say "Guru" Nanak.  

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