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Guest Empathy
On 10/6/2019 at 12:48 AM, Guest guest said:

uh maybe from this:

"parents dont matter when a young adult decides to marry out of their faith. Humans are free to do as they choose."

 

Yes, I can see why you might interpret it that way – as an opinion, rather than an observation. When I read it, I took it to be a statement of fact that, indeed, parents don't matter (they should, i'm sure we can agree) when a person decides to marry out of the faith. 

The cliche 'love is blind' comes to mind ... But then later on, when we have misgivings or realise that love wasn't blind, it was stubborn, we say that hindsight is a great thing. Oh dear! I pity young adults for the mistakes they will one day wish they never made.

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Guest truthurts
On 10/7/2019 at 11:14 PM, Guest Sat said:

You clearly haven't read Gurbani so I wont continue our conversation. You're not understanding Real True Eternal Love.

Read Gurbani, it tells the Truth.

 

look ur not the guru. ur a nobody, a fool n a sinner jus like the rest of us. so dnt compare urself to the in any way by tryin to address guru ji the way they did by first name. thats arrogant n it makes a mockery of the gurbani u constantly proclaim to love n respect. drop the ego, consider urself as low as the rest of us  n be respectful by usin titles pls.

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Guest truthurts
On 10/8/2019 at 9:00 PM, Guest Empathy said:

Yes, I can see why you might interpret it that way – as an opinion, rather than an observation. When I read it, I took it to be a statement of fact that, indeed, parents don't matter (they should, i'm sure we can agree) when a person decides to marry out of the faith. 

The cliche 'love is blind' comes to mind ... But then later on, when we have misgivings or realise that love wasn't blind, it was stubborn, we say that hindsight is a great thing. Oh dear! I pity young adults for the mistakes they will one day wish they never made.

this is sikhsangat.com not the atheistcongregation where any western liberal crap goes.

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On 10/7/2019 at 11:14 PM, Guest Sat said:

You clearly haven't read Gurbani so I wont continue our conversation. You're not understanding Real True Eternal Love.

Read Gurbani, it tells the Truth.

 

my friend Sat,  I read Gurbani every day, in original Gurmukhi.

if you understand Real True Eternal Love, what are you doing typing away on some forum?  isnt that a little beneath you?

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Guest GuestBrownEyes

Update

I met with my son in a neutral location about 3 weeks ago so we could run a couple of errands in the morning, then go for lunch at a place he suggested, watch a film together and then after a chat I’d drop him round his grandparents. I said I’d be round for 11am, be ready please. I arrive and he comes down at 12.30pm by which time brunch is ready and we eat with his grandparents. In the car he announces to skip lunch (obviously), doesn’t want to watch a film, rather be dropped back after the errand so he can study. I said ok spare me an hour for a quiet drink. During the chat I promise practically the earth.

Come home and we will draw a line over past events and I’ll even help you resign your unhappy job and we’ll look together to find a new vocation. Let’s resume your driving lessons, get you started back at the gym and let’s sign up fo some online learning to supplement your career prospects. Ultimately let’s learn from this (us as parents) by being more understanding to your needs and become a whole family again. Don’t worry about money I’ll put a set amount in your account until you find a full time job and get you some savings towards your future.

Refusal.

Said nothing will change if he comes back. I said he is being unreasonable by not giving us a chance. 

I dropped him back off round his grandparents and to say I was shaking with rage is an understatement after in the car on the way back to my family home. I explained to his mother and of course got upset again. I don’t know whether it was the combination of my naivety prior that he would reason and the manner of his indifference to what I was proposing or disbelief.

So a few weeks pass and during this time:

Refuses to give up the Bengali girl despite paying lip service to grandparents;

Resigns from job anyway but have no new job in place and is still unemployed;

See an email from a college that he has enrolled but hasn’t attended a single class in 4 weeks;

Goes out at 2am and comes back at 5am despite kind protests from grandparents;

Failed his theory test by coming back at 12am the night before to grandfathers dismay;

Goes out 5-6 times per week so burning through cash;

Returned home for a single night (at grandparents persistence) and is cold towards his mother but friendly towards siblings. We as parents act like nothing happened.

I receive a 2nd hand message that he wishes never to return home with us. I explode with anger at the messenger and apologise the next day.

So now I’m having unpleasant thoughts to beating him to a pulp, to hoping the friends and girlfriend screw him over so a life lesson is learnt. His mother and grandparents are afraid he’ll walk, turn to crime and drugs and never see him again which is the reason why nothing has been said about his antics since. 

I pop simran on to bathe again in the glow of love, kindness and care that Maharaj teaches us that makes me forget the anger. I rationalise that it’s one less offspring to worry about now and to assist the other 2. I don’t think he will ever return so have let him go in my mind. I’m here if a call comes but as life moves on I can’t say I didn’t try.

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Guest Empathy

Dear Brown Eyes,

You have gone over and above what could possibly expected of you. It really seems like your son wants everything on his own terms, which makes me think he needs to fail on his own terms before he begins to see sense.

So, let's take stock. His girlfriend is not going to be interested in an unemployed man. She'll tell him she doesn't care about money, but once the gifts and the nice treats dry up, she will somehow realise that there are 'too many barriers' to their relationship; so that will end.

He will have to get a job, not because he wants to but because the income support people will expect him to commit full time to finding a job (that's more demanding than actual work). So like it or not, he will also get a job.

His friends who seem to be leading him on a merry dance to nowhere will also question their own loyalty to him when they find themselves supporting him financially. 

At his lowest point, he will miss the warmth of family life and will return, if only for the comfort. Perhaps when that happens, ask him what he would do in your position. And also ask him what he would expect of a son who behaved the way he did; would he expect his son to show remorse? Would he expect his son to agree to family rules? 

I don't think you have it in you to cut him off - to be honest, he's cut himself off. I imagine your door will always be open to him, just don't be the doormat. That doesn't mean getting heavy handed, losing your temper, or insisting on respect (although Lord knows, you'd be forgiven for all of those things), it means laying ground rules that your son identifies himself.

Finally, there are the unseen, but abundant, forces of faith that will lead to a good outcome. I don't share your religion but people reading this will wish you well (as I do) and will pray for you in a way that is meaningful to you. Please take comfort that if complete strangers want the best for your family, then only good can come out of our shared hopes for you.

As for the rest of us, we all have trials with children at some stage in our lives and we should really respect Brown Eyes for his honesty and for sharing his experiences. If that sounds hippy drippy, it shouldn't.

Wishing you and your family so much goodwill. 

 

 

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Guest Guest Brown Eyes

Thank you for your kind words.

I’m sharing this because there maybe someone who has experienced similar anguish or as a warning to look out for. Perhaps a snapshot of a British born kid with Punjabi heritage and some Sikhi values tried to be instilled. 

Upon reflection I was a more hands on Dad than my father was and yet I still feared and respected him. I believe that I may have been more informal and given greater freedom than I had to my son. To that degree I think I may have contributed to his stupidity.

When I was his age I had been tempted to act out as he is doing now but I knew it was wrong. 3 of my peers didn’t stop and now 20 years later because of their dysfunctionality, sadly all 3 are divorced with kids run wild, health problems etc. 

‘My parents are getting fed up with his antics and I think it’s a matter of weeks before they snap and I get a call to say he’s left. He was involved in a car crash where as a passenger he was shunted from behind and had whiplash. The next evening he goes out from 10-2am and an exasperated grandmother lets him in. 

‘I went for an evening out with my family in the centre of a midlands city. As I was walking back to the car (approx 10.30pm) there was an ambulance ready with a stretcher. Just waiting. What a damning indictment that they expect carnage having seen it regularly, week after week. 

That tragic tale of the 14 year old girl makes you want to weep. I realise that there may be a chance he comes to his senses but the world in which we live in has changed so dramatically I’m struggling to keep up with daily disbelief. I’ve been to 50 odd parties in the last 20 years and probably 3 out that there was a fight and today I hear it’s a regular occurrence. I see Punjabis in the midlands with turbans but a shaven beard. What idiots. 

When I was about 17 there was a pretty Punjabi girl from a wealthy family at my college. There was a large presence of Muslims and Sikhs with the usual cliques and it was revealed she had a black boyfriend. He even collected her from college. Overnight she was castigated by everyone and within a few days she left and never returned. I don’t know what circumstances surrounded her life but today I don’t think nobody would raise an eyebrow. 

 

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On 10/17/2019 at 9:35 AM, Guest GuestBrownEyes said:

Refusal.

 Said nothing will change if he comes back

Perhaps this is the key to the root cause of it all ? What does he think won't change ? 

What if you or your wife feign a disease ? Will he come if his mom pretends she's on bed suffering with something ? 

Basically something that will bring him back to home and let him stick there atleast for a few weeks , giving you and your wife time to mend the relationships and break the ice 

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Guest Guest Brown Eyes

I think the reason he doesnt want to come back - the real reason - is we live in a town outside a major city with every possible convenience within 2-5 mins. Schools, hospital, petrol stations, supermarkets, cinema, takeaways etc. The only thing being you would drive everywhere. Crime and bad behavior is practically non-existent. Neighbours are retired professionals. The real reason is that the <banned word filter activated> girlfriend is closer in the major city whilst he is with his grandparent's house. He is also able to go out 5-7 times per week and come back any hour without nobody saying anything. 

All the things me and my wife go on about to him is building a better life for himself with our support. He has 4-5 peers in the same position and none of them walked like he did.

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19 hours ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

Perhaps this is the key to the root cause of it all ? What does he think won't change ? 

What if you or your wife feign a disease ? Will he come if his mom pretends she's on bed suffering with something ? 

Basically something that will bring him back to home and let him stick there atleast for a few weeks , giving you and your wife time to mend the relationships and break the ice 

shame on you for suggesting they that!

Amritdharis are meant to be honest people. not 'chalak' (sly and devious).

that would just estrange him further is he found out it was a lie.

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