Why do Sikhs use family names?

[Big_Tera]

18 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Gotra were used in 10th Guru period to identify people.  Rattan Singh bhangu makes this clear in his book.  Its not due to the west.  Only thing the west did was make people write it down on documents.   Famously the Brar gotra is mentioned in rattan Singh bhangu book.  And it's done to identify that group of people. It was already prevalent.   In English it's called last name and in india its call gotra or clan or however they classified themselves distinctly from other people. The west again, just made them write it down.  People not writing it down in india is irrelevant because some wanted to classify themselves as proper Sikhs so they dropped it on paper.  Like the lap dog of Indian government balbir Singh jathedar of buddha dal.  However they had a deep connection with the last name/gotra and were very proud.  Guru Gobind Singh ji was Guru Gobind Rai before taking amrit.  Rai identifies him to a specific clan.  There was nothing wrong with the Guru keeping the last name/gotra/clan as Rai.  The Guru didn't attach any spiritual or emotional value to it.  It was simply there as a pointer.  

So disregard this child's ignorance.   Hes talking out of his you know what.

Looks like your just jealous of all the millions of Sikhs that only use Singh or Kaur as their last name without any other name. You are advocating that we all use a caste name also like you. Well that is not going to happen. Your obviously still to much attached to caste ideology and are a proud pendoowala or whatever you last name is. 

I know fully well what particular group I belong to and clan without writing it down on my passport of official document. I obviously know its important to have it but does not need to be officially on any papers or birth certificate. I am advocating you also change your name and all your family name to only singh or kaur. 

Below taken from wikpedia

In Sikhism, women don't change their surnames after marriage - this is due to the fact that each partner keeps Singh and Kaur respectively, who use their preferred names). Again, Punjabi culture generally contradicts this as women are expected to take their husband's family name. Their daughters would then generally have a given name, as well as the Khalsa name and their father's last name, which is usually the name of the father's village; for example, a girl with the name Harjeet, whose father's last name is Aulakh, would then become Harjeet Kaur Aulakh (meaning "Harjeet, princess of Aulakh"). In spite that this system is not permitted for Sikhs as it reinforces both tribalism and the patriarchy, it is the most widely used naming system amongst non-baptized Sikhs (and still prevalent among baptized Sikhs).Sikh girls take on last name of Singh, a practice more common in larger cities.

Many Sikhs use the sole Singh and Kaur (without any other family name). Baptism is not necessary to use these Sikh last names. Some believers maintain that this practice of naming without using the word Singh or Kaur is manmat (Against the will of the Guru) and is prohibited in the Rehat Maryada (The way of living of Sikhs).^[1]

[Akalifauj]

2 hours ago, Big_Tera said:

Looks like your just jealous of all the millions of Sikhs that only use Singh or Kaur as their last name without any other name. You are advocating that we all use a caste name also like you. Well that is not going to happen. Your obviously still to much attached to caste ideology and are a proud pendoowala or whatever you last name is. 

I know fully well what particular group I belong to and clan without writing it down on my passport of official document. I obviously know its important to have it but does not need to be officially on any papers or birth certificate. I am advocating you also change your name and all your family name to only singh or kaur. 

Yes, you got me I'm jealous of people like you.  You are so smart.  Your name from today is bicep.  I know you wont be able to figure out why your name is bicep but maybe one of your inbred family members will be able to tell you.

Sikhs will continue to use last names.  Biceps like you are in denial because you are the very people who act to be Sikh.  I stated some facts and your underwear is all twisted up now.  Go drop a couple more dumbbells on your head.  Maybe the wires will reconnect correctly this time.

[Big_Tera]

2 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Yes, you got me I'm jealous of people like you.  You are so smart.  Your name from today is bicep.  I know you wont be able to figure out why your name is bicep but maybe one of your inbred family members will be able to tell you.

Sikhs will continue to use last names.  Biceps like you are in denial because you are the very people who act to be Sikh.  I stated some facts and your underwear is all twisted up now.  Go drop a couple more dumbbells on your head.  Maybe the wires will reconnect correctly this time.

You are obviously a bigger fool then I thought. Do you think millions of Sikhs who only use Singh or Kaur are inbred? These people know full well what 'clan' they are from so there is no need to have that name on official documents you budoo.

Unlike you who still wants everyone to use family names as mark of pride. Instead of creating Sikh unity with one surname for all.Your actually going against the Sikh teachings. 

You have nothing to respond back with and dont address the question I asked or the wiki article I posted. As you dont have the intelligence to support your claims pendoowala.

 

 

 

[MrDoaba]

It's interesting...how some have the complete lack of ability to deduce from a short piece of writing. To read between the lines of, what is actually a very basic block of text. Shockingly simple minded.

For the benefit of the simpletons, I shall try my very best to write in simple English...given that their grasp on the English language parallels that of one who's had a lobotomy.

My driving licence number can be used to identify me. So can my NHS number. Are they the same thing though? No they are not.

A surname can be used to identify someone. So can a gotra - clan. Are they the same thing? No they are not. Even though gotra is used in a similar capacity as a surname today - because Sikhs moved to the west and live where there is a different system of recording. There is a very obvious difference in the use of surnames in the west and gotra; it's not rocket science.

In my earlier post, I didn't state that gotra were not used for identification (unless you're a simpleton and can't read). I only stated that gotra's are not surnames in the western sense. But of course they were used to identify - an individuals clan, his people, his location, his history. In most scenarios it was never really about the individual though. I mean sure there may have been a scenario such as: "which Harjap? Harjap Bhangal? Or Harjap Sidhu?" "Oh I meant Harjap Bhangal of course!"

But enquiring about ones gotra was about ascertaining more than identification of the individual. In the west surnames are about identifying the individual.

Surnames have been recorded for over a thousand years in the west for various reasons. Births, baptisms, confirmations, marriages, and deaths. All in an effort to identify an individual. Just look at the Domesday Book, the great survey.

Whilst surnames in the west quite possibly may have had the same connotations as gotra at some point in very distant history, they haven't for a long time. Surname and gotra do not have the same connotations. Yet both can be used to identify. Just like my driving licence number and my NHS number. Does that make then the same? I think not.

The only instance of recording gotra as a means of identifcation in an offcial manner (like the surname in the west) that comes to mind is, when Sikhs would go to Haridwar to disperse the ashes of the departed. Records were kept of deaths.

Or if one was writing about oneself...as Kalgidhar Swami Ji does in Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji where They mention that Their lineage/clan is the Sodhi Bans.

There is nothing wrong with knowing your gotra. There's nothing wrong, imo, using it as your surname in this modern world for the purpose of records. However if you have false pride over it, then that's on you. When asked what your name is you can simply say "my name is XYZ Singh" or "my name is XYZ Kaur" - no need to mention your gotra even if it's on your birth certificate and passport. If one enquires about, only then should you mention it.

Simply explained for the simple minded. SIMPLES.

Gurbar Akaal!

[Akalifauj]

1 hour ago, Big_Tera said:

You are obviously a bigger fool then I thought. Do you think millions of Sikhs who only use Singh or Kaur are inbred? These people know full well what 'clan' they are from so there is no need to have that name on official documents you budoo.

Unlike you who still wants everyone to use family names as mark of pride. Instead of creating Sikh unity with one surname for all.Your actually going against the Sikh teachings. 

You have nothing to respond back with and dont address the question I asked or the wiki article I posted. As you dont have the intelligence to support your claims pendoowala.

 

 

 

This guy is truly stupid as a dumbell.  I write some people are not writing their last name because they are faking it but truly hold strong ties with their last name  I, then give an example.  But bicep is so retarded he can't see past his stupidity. That post could not be more clear and to the point. But bicep is having an episode of trigglypuff.  So yes you are an inbred.  You proved that here.  I just stated the facts.  Do you see how that works?  

I have never said use last names as a display of pride.  I actually say the opposite.  You are having a nervous break down because I present the facts that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji used Sri Guru Gobind Rai before taking amrit.   You have a problem with facts.  Like a true sjw, you had a melt down when facts are presented.  

Present the evidence from a credible source that says Sikhs will use Singh and kaur as their surname. 

Bicep you asked no question.   Try again.  

[Akalifauj]

6 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

It's interesting...how some have the complete lack of ability to deduce from a short piece of writing. To read between the lines of, what is actually a very basic block of text. Shockingly simple minded.

For the benefit of the simpletons, I shall try my very best to write in simple English...given that their grasp on the English language parallels that of one who's had a lobotomy.

My driving licence number can be used to identify me. So can my NHS number. Are they the same thing though? No they are not.

A surname can be used to identify someone. So can a gotra - clan. Are they the same thing? No they are not. Even though gotra is used in a similar capacity as a surname today - because Sikhs moved to the west and live where there is a different system of recording. There is a very obvious difference in the use of surnames in the west and gotra; it's not rocket science.

In my earlier post, I didn't state that gotra were not used for identification (unless you're a simpleton and can't read). I only stated that gotra's are not surnames in the western sense. But of course they were used to identify - an individuals clan, his people, his location, his history. In most scenarios it was never really about the individual though. I mean sure there may have been a scenario such as: "which Harjap? Harjap Bhangal? Or Harjap Sidhu?" "Oh I meant Harjap Bhangal of course!"

But enquiring about ones gotra was about ascertaining more than identification of the individual. In the west surnames are about identifying the individual.

Surnames have been recorded for over a thousand years in the west for various reasons. Births, baptisms, confirmations, marriages, and deaths. All in an effort to identify an individual. Just look at the Domesday Book, the great survey.

Whilst surnames in the west quite possibly may have had the same connotations as gotra at some point in very distant history, they haven't for a long time. Surname and gotra do not have the same connotations. Yet both can be used to identify. Just like my driving licence number and my NHS number. Does that make then the same? I think not.

The only instance of recording gotra as a means of identifcation in an offcial manner (like the surname in the west) that comes to mind is, when Sikhs would go to Haridwar to disperse the ashes of the departed. Records were kept of deaths.

Or if one was writing about oneself...as Kalgidhar Swami Ji does in Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji where They mention that Their lineage/clan is the Sodhi Bans.

There is nothing wrong with knowing your gotra. There's nothing wrong, imo, using it as your surname in this modern world for the purpose of records. However if you have false pride over it, then that's on you. When asked what your name is you can simply say "my name is XYZ Singh" or "my name is XYZ Kaur" - no need to mention your gotra even if it's on your birth certificate and passport. If one enquires about, only then should you mention it.

Simply explained for the simply minded. SIMPLES.

Gurbar Akaal!

Child, you have not learned.  Every time you write a post directed at me.  Keep in mind the fact you did not even understand the mean of ਕਰਿ in bhai gurdas ji Vaar.   This right here tells everyone how intelligent you truly are.  Now once again I will present how arrogant you are here.

Gotra/clan/last name identify a person to a specific type of group from BIRTH.  Now let's look at your comical comparison to license number and NHS number  License numbers and NHS number dont specifically tell a person is part of a group from BIRTH.  For this reason they can't be compared to how gotra/clan/ last name can identify the person to a specific group.  Leave this forum man.  You are making a complete mockery of doaba by vomiting your stupidity here.  Do your clan a service and leave.

Rest of his post was based on the above comical comparison that failed and was addressed in the first post.  Child, dont make it so easy for me.  

[Akalifauj]

Here bicep and child, I will repost the initial post of mine that gave both of you a nervous breakdown.  Now the idea here is to read and read and read and read and read, well keep reading the post because you two are Larry and moe from the three stooges. 

Gotra were used in 10th Guru period to identify people.  Rattan Singh bhangu makes this clear in his book.  Its not due to the west.  Only thing the west did was make people write it down on documents.   Famously the Brar gotra is mentioned in rattan Singh bhangu book.  And it's done to identify that group of people. It was already prevalent.   In English it's called last name and in india its call gotra or clan or however they classified themselves distinctly from other people. The west again, just made them write it down.  People not writing it down in india is irrelevant because some wanted to classify themselves as proper Sikhs so they dropped it on paper.  Like the lap dog of Indian government balbir Singh jathedar of buddha dal.  However they had a deep connection with the last name/gotra and were very proud.  Guru Gobind Singh ji was Guru Gobind Rai before taking amrit.  Rai identifies him to a specific clan.  There was nothing wrong with the Guru keeping the last name/gotra/clan as Rai.  The Guru didn't attach any spiritual or emotional value to it.  It was simply there as a pointer.  

So disregard this child's ignorance.   Hes talking out of his you know what.

[MrDoaba]

1 hour ago, Akalifauj said:

Every time you write a post directed at me.

LMFAOOO....that's interesting truly. Seeing at it's you who continously writes posts directed at me hate to break it to you, but you're not that important that you think I actually want to converse with you lol.

You should see a therapist honestly, you seem to have an obsession with me (it's not flattering unfortunately), and you seem to think I'm communicating with you...figments of your imagination. Quite worrying. And you keep calling me child...you must have daddy issues...Christ Almighty!

You're like one of those predators on the internet they warn you about. Freaks, weirdos. No wonder you can't understand English properly. You also have some serious self aggrandizement issues, most likely related to your daddy issues....evidently psychopathic if we're honest with ourselves.

Recently you said, but completely failed to adhere to :

Quote

But who has this much time to waste on a pandit.

ਆਪ ਆਪਕੋ ਰੋਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਤੇ? ਕਯਾ ਆਪਕਾ ਦਿਮਾਗ ਠੀਕ ਹੈ?
ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪਰ ਸਮਯ ਕਿਓਂ ਗੁਜ਼ਾਰਨਾ ਹੈ?   ਆਪ ਯਹ ਕਹ ਰਹੇ ਹੈਂ.........?
ਲੇਕਿਨ ਫਿਰ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਮੇਰੇ ਪੀਛੇ ਪੀਛੇ ਕੁੱਤੇ ਕਿ ਤਰਹ ਘੂਮਤਾ ਰਹਿਤਾ ਹੋ ...ਜਿਸਕਾ ਮੂੰਹ ਕਾਲਾ ਪੜ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ.
ਔਰ ਵਹ ਭੀ ਕੁਛ ਮਾਹੀਨਿਯੋਂ ਕੇ ਲਿਏ...

ਆਪਕੋ ਬਹੁਤ ਜਿਯਾਦਾ ਮੈਂਟਲ ਸਮਸਯਾਏਂ ਹੈਂ...ਸ਼ਾਯਦ ਸਰਸ੍ਵਤੀ ਆਪ ਪਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੇਂਗੀ

ਤਬ ਤਕ.....

 

ਜੈ ਮਾਤਾ ਦੀ !
ਗੁਰ ਬਰ ਅਕਾਲ !

[Big_Tera]

On 9/27/2019 at 2:18 AM, Akalifauj said:

Child, you have not learned.  Every time you write a post directed at me.  Keep in mind the fact you did not even understand the mean of ਕਰਿ in bhai gurdas ji Vaar.   This right here tells everyone how intelligent you truly are.  Now once again I will present how arrogant you are here.

Gotra/clan/last name identify a person to a specific type of group from BIRTH.  Now let's look at your comical comparison to license number and NHS number  License numbers and NHS number dont specifically tell a person is part of a group from BIRTH.  For this reason they can't be compared to how gotra/clan/ last name can identify the person to a specific group.  Leave this forum man.  You are making a complete mockery of doaba by vomiting your stupidity here.  Do your clan a service and leave.

Rest of his post was based on the above comical comparison that failed and was addressed in the first post.  Child, dont make it so easy for me.  

Please grow some brain cells

[Redoptics]

2 hours ago, Big_Tera said:

Please grow some brain cells

Lmao take your own medicine please