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NKJ Excommunicated from Sikh Religion?


Guest TheTruthSikher12
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What did I just watch? This guy is unhinged.

He says (in the Gurdwara) of Guru Nanak ji "kidnap kar ditte honge". Huh?

"Honge"? Might have been? You might as well say "NKJ govt da agent honge". 

This is all just totally baseless speculation. 

You don't have a right to just make up total lies and present them as what "really happened".

He says "do you get mithai from shops or trees?" (disrespecting the miracles of Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj).

For people who don't understand why he was banned, it wasn't for one statement. It was for a whole method that these people continue to use: Just make up totally lies. When caught in one lie, move on to the next one. They are shameless.

They are free to live their lives, just not as preachers in Gurdwaras.

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On 12/17/2019 at 9:26 AM, Guest TheTruthSikher12 said:

Is this all true NKJ has been excommunicated from the Panth? Just saw a video from Akaal Takhat Jathedar... anyone else seen it? Your thoughts? 

If you view the NKJ video that shows up in the links at the end of this video, you'll see women are sitting smiling and very pleased at the NKJ fellow. This includes women wearing dastars and ramals! What's the point of making an outward show of religiosity if you have no shardha for Maharaj?

1. He says "It hurts to think what our IQ level must be to accept the things in the Suraj Prakash. Ask a kid how it rains, he'll tell you about the water cycle." 

So he's against the entire Suraj Prakash? Might has well just write off all of Sikh history. Why does he even bother talking about "Guru Granth Sahib ji"? The only place where it's mentioned that Guru Gobind Singh ji gave Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib is Suraj Prakash! (Or other history granths.)

2. He says the Gurbani line that says "It rains when Parmeshar makes it rain", "parmesher" means nature. You should know that they don't actually believe that God exists, only Nature. So why even bother with Gurdwaras? Just attend rationalists society meetings.

3. He says "Kids are telling parents not to send money to Punjab to do paath, we'll do it ourselves."

OK, that's fine. But the method of this group is to say a few good things, and then telling people that Guru Sahib were not manifestations of God.

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On 12/24/2019 at 4:23 AM, DSG said:
Quote

Kissing boys that have been placed in your care is not some innocuous 'mistake' in my books. I think the decision was a circumspect one (for a change).  

Then why not punish him via the law courts ?

Depriving someone of their liberty (i.e., putting him in prison) takes an extraordinary level of proof.

On the other hand, merely depriving someone of the chance to acquire new victims (preventing him from having access to Gurdwara sangat) takes a much lesser level of proof.

The latter has been done. The former can be as well, later.

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On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 8:12 PM, dallysingh101 said:

You had nothing to post in the first place other than apologist rubbish

Dhanvaad Ji , thank you for your kind words

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 6:32 PM, S1ngh said:

Singh ji, I meant that we wouldn't have lost brothers/sisters like you to these moderan pakhandi babay (had the action taken against them at much earlier stage, the result wouldn't be that damaged).

It does not make sense, at one side you are saying "I don't follow them" and yet you are intensely defending NKJ and the only thread you are heavily participating in. Seems like either you have doubt on them or having a two face strategy - Showing independency outer side & while supporting/biased someone 100%. Baba Nanak jee (who was not kidnapped nor murdered) once said - Truth is higher but truthful living is the highest

LOL ,  , let me re-iterate my opinion again  (the point I am trying to portray is the banning aspect , and how we can do things better. We Sikhs are very good at bashing people on the head make judgement very quickly , without thinking about the consequences of our actions . If you really want to know about my background ( I don't know why , me I;m a nobody and its not that important but briefly ...) , I have listened to Ranjit Singh Katha a long time back when he came to the UK , I thought he was good , simple to understand , now and again I listen to his katha , and Kanshi TV also broadcast his kathas where I listen to now and again  , NKJ I have been to their diwaans at GNG Smethwick a while back , again I thought he was good , simple to understand. I also listen to Bhai Pinderpal Singh who is very good but don't fully understand some of this "big ' Words. Also listen to Basics of Sikhi again very good , and Sarbjit Singh Rajoana TV again very good and informative..( i'll stop there). It hurts to see Sikhs fighting Sikhs , I am trying  to learn daily our Gurus message ,and at preent reading  Bhai Vir Singhs Guru Nanak Dev Ji Chamatkaar is superb . I am not perfect , commit sins daily , but hoping one day as we all do Guru maharaj does kirpa. Trying to get my kids on this path , when they ask why they banning Sikhs , why are Sikhs fighting Sikhs ,,, what message do we tell them ..Its a big task to unite , but we can at least try ...Guru Nanak Dev Ji our role model , we need to take a leaf out of his book , I know a very very big up hill task , but at least we can try ..

Heres my view :-

1. What NKJ said was 100% wrong . If they have been doing katha for a long time the simple answer would be , "sorry sangat ji , for any offense caused and nothing like this will happen in the future ".

2. The Ego has kicked in by all parties , no one wants to back down and accept their mistakes , rather theres a lot of 'tu tu meh meh " going on which is adding more fuel to the fire. As Dr Vir singh writes

" Ego manifests in us as 'I am' or 'me' as a pride and forms a veil between the Lord and us. It shapes the mind to look outwardly as 'I' and 'mine'. When we  feel proud it is the ego at work inside us and we feel proud and ravish the 'I' and 'me'. When the ego gets a beating it comes out as anager,sulkiness,jealousy and envy. Ego is like an illness which can go by loving the Lord by remembering him , singing his hymns and reciting his name"

3. Who should they have dialogue with ?

    I think sangat who have gian , scholars , singhs/Singhni who have tact on how to explain in such a manner that not to cause arguments but to change ones mindset ( that is what we are all aiming for ). 

4. They have a lot of followers , have we ever thought they could be gems in the sangat who have joined sikhi because of them and this could break their beliefs , not just turning against them but they abandon Sikhi altogether.

 

5. If they do not want to have dialogue , do we carry on spreading rumours where some are true and others not . Obviously they have a big influence on the sangat , are we breaking sikhi causing a rift , creating separate pockets of sikhi …. do we not want ekta?

 

6. Basics of Sikhi run a 6 month training course for anyone who wants to become a katha Vachak , should we not setup a structure stating :-

1. What qualification's does the katha vachak have ?

    What source in terms of literature have they read ?

  Have a definitive list that has been vetted , so that all can read . The same material used by all Katha Vaachaks , you wont be able to stop some adding their own twist to it , that's fine but as long as they don't change the meaning..

2. Rules and regulations for katha vachaks

   i.e. not going off topic

         not saying anything controversal , vetting what they will be presenting etc..

3. Rewarding good katha vaachaks who have good influence on the sangat

etc.. etc..

So rather than a mere ban , all Katha Vachaks , scholars , sangat sit around a table and have discussions as how to move forward ( I know our Gurus have setup this structure for us , we have the guidance we just need to come together and act upon it , with love , compassion , sincerity…and have proper leaders , but again saying that each one of us who believe in the 10 Gurus and Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj , can make this change

There have been many cases , videos that have gone viral where fights in Gurudawara … have the instigators of these fights been banned ? There are Gurudwaras still today who use their halls to allow sangat to serve meat and alcohol.. have they been banned ?

 

just some views , hopefully I have not offended anyone.

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1 hour ago, DSG said:

Dhanvaad Ji , thank you for your kind words

Are you surprised?

What are you potentially opening up our community to by having such a laissez faire attitude towards the issue. Are you unaware of how other religious communities are rampacked with covert perverts amongst their preachers? If we take a relaxed attitude towards this issue, we could easily end up in the same boat. 

That people are wary of this and vigilant is great thing, not a bad one. 

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2 hours ago, DSG said:

 4. They have a lot of followers , have we ever thought they could be gems in the sangat who have joined sikhi because of them and this could break their beliefs , not just turning against them but they abandon Sikhi altogether.

The fact you say their followers shows how lost you are.  They are his followers then they have been already lost.  Which means their is no gem in the sangat.  Gurbani says be the follower of the Guru.  Many people have stopped attending any divan nkj hold because the leader was locking lips with a teen and slapping guys with a stick in their private area.

If you were honestly wanting a corrective action done by NKJ,  you would have the stand for them to openly accept their mistakes and not to repeat them.  The otherside you speak of having an ego is pathetic.   Would this so called ego exist if NKJ had not locked lips with a teenager?    Wanting NKJ to answer for such a huge mistake is not ego.  You see it that way because you are a fan boy.  No different than a cheerleader.  We already have many of these in the panth and on this forum.  Drop the act, you are not fooling anyone.

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The fact you say their followers shows how lost you are

Indeed I am 100% lost , and yes I agree by your comment Gurbani says follow the Guru. ( sorry should have substituted to sangat who go to their Diwans)

Quote

Many people have stopped attending any divan nkj hold because the leader was locking lips with a teen and slapping guys with a stick in their private area.

Really !!!! If that is the case , then why have the victims not prosecuted NKJ , or is there a case filed against them at present . I agree totally wrong . I understand if the abuse is of sexual nature it is very hard for the victim to speak up and prosecute the abuser , but this thread is about banning of NKJ due to their incorrect preaching of Guru Nanak Dev Ji maharaj , is it not ?

Quote

The otherside you speak of having an ego is pathetic

Why is this pathetic? If one backs down , accepts their fault and is willing to change/seek guidance  isn't that a step in the right direction . But rather ego is playing a big role , such that its a tu tu meh meh game , the accusers say something , then they retaliate say something back ……... To make a change or difference one party needs to back down and admit their fault and then necessary actions taken against them.

 

On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 3:56 PM, Akalifauj said:

You see it that way because you are a fan boy.  No different than a cheerleader. Drop the act you are not fooling anyone

This is my whole point , I know nothing about you , and you know nothing about me , with a few words on a forum you have become qualified in making judgement , which is very dangerous thing , and anti sikhi .

A proper process in which we make decisions around banning should be implemented  , with both parties present and neutral bodies adjudicating , so no one else represents them or speaks on their behalf and in the hazoori of Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. This is relating to any Katha they have done which is misleading the Sangat / preaching Sikhi which is wrong  or any act which they have done wrong in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji maharaj .

If they lock lips / or do sexual activity with individuals then its the individuals who need to take further action and prosecute them and make sure they do not do it again .As already mentioned this is easily said then done due to the mental bashing sexual abuse puts on the victim its hard for them to stand up. But for this there are already processes in place , i.e. get solicitor , file a case , collect evidence , go to court , etc... Re this thread we need a process , which vets the katha vachaks , checks their qualifications , gives them appropriate sentences based on their actions  etc.. etc...

The point I am trying to make ( wheter right/wrong) but my view is we need a process in place for Katha Vahchaks , a process for banning those who are damaging Sikhi , where do we draw the line .., what about

1. Those who fight in Gurudawaras ( many videos have gone viral ) … should they be banned

2. Those who use Gurudawara premises for parties where meat and alcohol are server … should they be banned

3. Those who abuse Gurudawaras funds .. should they be banned

At least there is a process in place now for Anand Karaj .

Quote

 

What are you potentially opening up our community to by having such a laissez faire attitude towards the issue. Are you unaware of how other religious communities are rampacked with covert perverts amongst their preachers? If we take a relaxed attitude towards this issue, we could easily end up in the same boat. 

That people are wary of this and vigilant is great thing, not a bad one.

 

 I don't think you have understood my point , this thread is about  incorrect katha and banning them based on that , the point I am trying to make is we need proper process in place as mentioned above. I don't disagree with you regarding Sexual abuse cases , which is worse for the victim , mentally and those vile people who do such things should be exposed , banned and punished.

 

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